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  1. #126
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    It is a reasonable question...

  2. #127
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    It wont be viewed that way, that's the problem over there.
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    335i ~ JB4 ~ BMS ~ DCI ~ Active Autowerks CP & BOV ~ Borla Catback Exhaust

  3. #128
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    ... I look at 60-130 runs as a cop-out - IMO - for cars that cannot hook in the 1/4 mile so I ignore those numbers. However, I realize that I am biased to the 1320 footer and an old fart...
    I'm with you 100% on that + repped. I know 1/4mi isn't for everyone but there's a reason why stangs and other such 1/4mi bruisers rarely show up at roll-on events.

    And I had to lol at the shiv SS video thread on e90poop where I think it was Capt Insano's car went up against a "FBO Mustang" and beat up on it. Like a 600+WHP heavily modded car should be racing a 400WHP car with an exhaust+tune in a highlight video to begin with. If a real turbo or supercharged stang showed up it would rip the paint off that car going by it.

    As you said, let's see the customer cars. If customers really start laying down wide, 700+WHP powerbands that's going to be quite a bit faster than just 130mph.

  4. #129
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    The worst part of these rolling races is all the bull$#@! that goes along with them. Bad starts, missing gears, heat soak, traction control kicked in, the list of excuses goes on and on. ET and MPH in 1/4 mile run rein supreme. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The worst part of these rolling races is all the bull$#@! that goes along with them. Bad starts, missing gears, heat soak, traction control kicked in, the list of excuses goes on and on. ET and MPH in 1/4 mile run rein supreme. Click here to enlarge
    +1 and 60-130 is another test that really compares the cars and setup and reduces the impact of the driver variable.
    SOLD --'07 E90 335i, PTF COBB E50, HFS4, ER CP, ETS 7", AA DP, Vishnu Exhaust, DCI, ACT, Nitto Nt555

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    installing soon: Mfactory LSD, , powerflex subrframe bushings

  6. #131
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    shouldn't you do more r&d then just a couple dyno pulls before releasing it to the general public? to see if any problems arise? or do you feel that confident with the kit ?
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #132
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    while I like and agree that the 1/4 mile is a great test of vehicle's performance... it too has very very many variables involved. Tires, temp, humidity, DA, launch capability, driver ability, tire pressure and so forth, so forth. With that being said, I think 1/4 mile trap times are about the most reliable indicators of a vehicle's performance, especially if two vehicles go back to the same track. 60-130 is really sketchy because gearing and what speed you start with seems to alter the results greatly. At the same time, this is not and will never be a daily driven 10 second car... as @mithiral67 said at one point... a 911 turbo and a GTR are dd 10 second cars. They have the ready chassis and LC capability; this vehicle does not without extreme chassis modifications, very aggressive slicks and potential gearing changes. In other words it's either setup as a race / track car or a street car... in street form it cannot be a DD 10 second car... sorry.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  8. #133
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamia2super Click here to enlarge
    shouldn't you do more r&d then just a couple dyno pulls before releasing it to the general public? to see if any problems arise? or do you feel that confident with the kit ?
    Nobody is forcing anyone to buy...

  9. #134
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Nobody is forcing anyone to buy...
    im not talking bad about it just giving a suggestion because its always easier to work on a local car. besides from the videos on YouTube i dont really know anything about this kit
    Click here to enlarge

  10. #135
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamia2super Click here to enlarge
    im not talking bad about it just giving a suggestion because its always easier to work on a local car. besides from the videos on YouTube i dont really know anything about this kit
    Well, I think that these types of products are what they are... I'd rather have a good kit that appears to work well and without the inflated price or inflated hype. Anyone making this purchase should accept that what they are buying is a new, relatively untested product, be capable of discerning a good from bad product or wait for others. This product however can be made to a certain standard yet people will be willing to give it a shot anyway, so no real reason to test it for 100k miles or anything like that imo.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Well I made the thread. I really would like to know what customer STs are putting down. I am not trying to troll...I have a feeling the responses will be interesting.
    I can't see it. Already gone?
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #137
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by marv85 Click here to enlarge
    +1 and 60-130 is another test that really compares the cars and setup and reduces the impact of the driver variable.
    I prefer 1/4 mile but 60-130 is a good second choice. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  13. #138
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamia2super Click here to enlarge
    im not talking bad about it just giving a suggestion because its always easier to work on a local car. besides from the videos on YouTube i dont really know anything about this kit
    What more do you need to know? They've already said that this is NOT the production kit, and that before heavy testing begins the car is getting suspension & drivetrain mods (specifically an LSD & DEFIV lockdown kit). Tony has already specifically listed the turbo options for the Stage 3s, and if you have any additional questions you can A) read up on the turbos & their specs and B) speak with a knowledgeable tuner (ideally someone familiar with the N54) and determine what turbos best suit your performance goals.


    You need to remember, Tony is selling the hardware. The actual performance your car may generate with the same product is completely dependent upon the tune you decide to run & who tunes the car.
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  14. #139
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamia2super Click here to enlarge
    im not talking bad about it just giving a suggestion because its always easier to work on a local car. besides from the videos on YouTube i dont really know anything about this kit
    You never know anything for sure until someone puts serious time on any product.

    That being said, this car has been beaten hard and hasn't had any issues. When Jake and I were there last week, we did over 100 dyno pulls in one day. That's not counting the session before or the one after that. PTF has also been e-tuning for a while with Tony, so there has been a lot of street driving and full gear pulls. At this point, the kit seems very stable. There's plenty of options for tuning, so some may want to try and push these kits even harder, or just enjoy a 600whp car with a reasonably mild tune.
    Josh Dankel
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  15. #140
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    Understood Dan. The HPF cars were stupid fast on the freeway - but an embarrassment from 2007-2012 on the strip (until ProEfi, Saad and Marcus).

    This is not crucifying the ST or Vargas car. It works the same in every other market, blower or turbo kit.

    Tuner shop cars do not count PERIOD - so I don't give a rip what the Vishnu car ran - ever. I look at 60-130 runs as a cop-out - IMO - for cars that cannot hook in the 1/4 mile so I ignore those numbers. However, I realize that I am biased to the 1320 footer and an old fart. With a tuner like Vishnu that is proven to have used hidden bladders of fuel in the past - who knows what was done to that car for the 10.8 run.


    I saw many crappy 12's and 11's from 700+rwhp cars than I would like to see. It was embarrassing as a 46M owner. I expected deep 10's with that kind of power and money - as Marcus and SAAD later proved. I lived in Seattle from 1996-2009 and attended PIR and Pacific many a times.

    The HPF shop car doesn't count.
    The Vishnu shop car doesn't count.
    The Vargas shop car doesn't count.
    The Whipple shop car or truck didn't count either.

    Too much bias in the data from a shop vehicle - its a clear conflict of interest. By definition, the data is flawed. FACT.

    Mike

    p.s. That said, my money is on Vargas for drag-times.
    THIS. I agree 100% shop cars don't mean squat until a customer can bolt the kit on, get a tune from someone who knows what they are doing and replicate the results. We literally took a pretty stock car and made a monster out of it and want people to be able to do the same thing, that is why I went twins, that is why I kept the vacuum controlled internal gates. I literally HATE internal gates, I would never run them on a custom turbo build, I laugh when people do it. This particular platform called for it because of the DME's vacuum control over the gates, period thats the only reason we went that way. The customer factor is another reason we stopped at our goal as we would like to see the pushing done by tuners and customers as their results are really the most valuable in the end.

  16. #141
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Totally, agreed! Comparing shop cars is a waste of time as each shop would devote as much time/money/resources to build a car to gain notoriety and reputation.

    Take English Racing for instance, they are a big tuner/builder in the Evo community. Tho these guys have their own 1000+whp shop car, they have time and time again built customers car's in a wide range of power levels with proven results. They did a great job building my 400+whp dd and their customer service was amazing. It's their ability to work and meet with their customer's needs that they are so well respected in that community.

    Being a newcomer to the BMW forums, I find that n54 platform still has a long way to go. It's good that Vargas and Vishu along with BMS/Cobb and other tuners paving the way for our community and at some point in time, we will really know the full potential of what the n54 motor can really do. These are exciting times, no matter how much trolling/banter there are in this community (mainly over at e90).
    I'm looking forward to the results. Click here to enlarge

  17. #142
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    I can't see it. Already gone?
    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=831564
    Current: '00 S2000
    Previous: '15 M235i xDrive | '15 Macan S | '15 WRX STi | '06 Cayman S | '12 E92 335is w/JB4 | '10 STi

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    THIS. I agree 100% shop cars don't mean squat until a customer can bolt the kit on, get a tune from someone who knows what they are doing and replicate the results. We literally took a pretty stock car and made a monster out of it and want people to be able to do the same thing, that is why I went twins, that is why I kept the vacuum controlled internal gates. I literally HATE internal gates, I would never run them on a custom turbo build, I laugh when people do it. This particular platform called for it because of the DME's vacuum control over the gates, period thats the only reason we went that way. The customer factor is another reason we stopped at our goal as we would like to see the pushing done by tuners and customers as their results are really the most valuable in the end.
    Tony,

    I wasn't trying to single you or your test mule of a car out. I like the way you brought your product out to the market and your attitude regarding tuning and future customers is spot on. Your data capture and updates are certainly refreshing.

    Much respect to you for not getting the proverbial panties in a bunch. As you said, if the customers cannot replicate the results - what are they actually buying?

    Good $#@! man!
    Mike

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    It is a reasonable question...
    Reasonable questions that they don't want to answer are automatically trolls.
    Kevin
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  20. #145
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lamia2super Click here to enlarge
    shouldn't you do more r&d then just a couple dyno pulls before releasing it to the general public? to see if any problems arise? or do you feel that confident with the kit ?
    If 2 months on the road, 500+ maybe a 1000 WOT pulls on the street and dyno, 2 la trips, one trip to shift sector, and being used as daily commuter for 30 miles each way for 3 weeks without a single issue isn't enough "Real World" R&D for you. Then sorry man not sure what to tell ya, but saying the car has a "few dyno pulls on it, means you are not paying attention to anything and just trolling around.

  21. #146
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    If 2 months on the road, 500+ maybe a 1000 WOT pulls on the street and dyno, 2 la trips, one trip to shift sector, and being used as daily commuter for 30 miles each way for 3 weeks without a single issue isn't enough "Real World" R&D for you. Then sorry man not sure what to tell ya, but saying the car has a "few dyno pulls on it, means you are not paying attention to anything and just trolling around.
    Well said

  22. #147
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    @lamia2super has never been one to troll I think his questions are genuine from the way he's asking. he really is under informed I believe.

  23. #148
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
    @lamia2super has never been one to troll I think his questions are genuine from the way he's asking. he really is under informed I believe.
    His question reads more like a statement than a question
    Kevin
    2011 335is 7DCT/JB4 G5-ISO BMS Flash
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    a 911 turbo and a GTR are dd 10 second cars. They have the ready chassis and LC capability; this vehicle does not without extreme chassis modifications, very aggressive slicks and potential gearing changes. In other words it's either setup as a race / track car or a street car... in street form it cannot be a DD 10 second car... sorry.
    AWD. It will happen.

  25. #150
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    AWD. It will happen.
    It's gonna take a LOT more then a VTT S3 on a 335xi to make it comparable to a GTR or Turbo P-Car
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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