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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dan avoN7 Click here to enlarge
    Gutted? Click here to enlarge Removing a passenger seat (which was likely done to fit the extra set of wheels w/ DR's) saves ~45-60 lbs, not really a big deal and wouldn't suddenly put him in the 11's.


    Your example of "bias" makes absolutely no sense. Shiv running that time in his car (with the modifications listed) has no relevance to other ST owners matching or besting that time.

    The car makes power, there is no denying that (dyno graphs prove this, 60-130 times prove this, etc.). Launching a car like this isn't easy though and does require practice, DR's, and some luck. Comparing the ST car to a RB twins car, it's obvious by just looking at the dyno graphs that the ST car would be much harder to get off the line. Thus the RB results are much easier to repeat. Also because the power comes on so soon on the RB cars, an automatic can easily get in to the powerband just rolling off the line and get a quick time.

    Using a road racing example.. A stock E92 M3 driven by a professional driver (Randy Pobst) at Laguna Seca did a 1:42.96 lap time. The majority of E92 M3 enthusiast drivers at Laguna Seca are running 1:47's and these cars usually have modifications. There is one E92 M3 that just dipped in to the mid 1:42's and that car has upgraded suspension, big brake kit, R-compound tires, etc.. Just because the car has the power and is capable of running certain times.. doesn't mean it's going to always happen.. nor will it be easy to repeat.

    It's going to be really interesting to see the initial runs of the Vargas Stage 3 cars. Looking at the powerband from the initial graphs posted, it's not going to be easy getting it off the line. If you can nail the launch it will definitely be quick as it's making power in the upper range. The results of the ST car shouldn't be knocked though as it's certainly not as easy to do as the RB cars and I'm sure we will see the same with these Stage 3 cars (if initial results at the strip are shared).
    What? Seriously do you have any idea what you're saying?

    rb's have a RIDICULOUS amount of midrange power and torque, way way way more than st's, if you think the rb's would be harder to launch with faster spool and more low/mid you're insane.

  2. #102
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dan avoN7 Click here to enlarge
    Gutted? Click here to enlarge Removing a passenger seat (which was likely done to fit the extra set of wheels w/ DR's) saves ~45-60 lbs, not really a big deal and wouldn't suddenly put him in the 11's.


    Your example of "bias" makes absolutely no sense. Shiv running that time in his car (with the modifications listed) has no relevance to other ST owners matching or besting that time.

    The car makes power, there is no denying that (dyno graphs prove this, 60-130 times prove this, etc.). Launching a car like this isn't easy though and does require practice, DR's, and some luck. Comparing the ST car to a RB twins car, it's obvious by just looking at the dyno graphs that the ST car would be much harder to get off the line. Thus the RB results are much easier to repeat. Also because the power comes on so soon on the RB cars, an automatic can easily get in to the powerband just rolling off the line and get a quick time.

    Using a road racing example.. A stock E92 M3 driven by a professional driver (Randy Pobst) at Laguna Seca did a 1:42.96 lap time. The majority of E92 M3 enthusiast drivers at Laguna Seca are running 1:47's and these cars usually have modifications. There is one E92 M3 that just dipped in to the mid 1:42's and that car has upgraded suspension, big brake kit, R-compound tires, etc.. Just because the car has the power and is capable of running certain times.. doesn't mean it's going to always happen.. nor will it be easy to repeat.

    It's going to be really interesting to see the initial runs of the Vargas Stage 3 cars. Looking at the powerband from the initial graphs posted, it's not going to be easy getting it off the line. If you can nail the launch it will definitely be quick as it's making power in the upper range. The results of the ST car shouldn't be knocked though as it's certainly not as easy to do as the RB cars and I'm sure we will see the same with these Stage 3 cars (if initial results at the strip are shared).
    It actually does have relevance seeing how shiv is the ONLY ST sub 11s don't you think he would want people to be as fast as him or was it a shiv only thing?...now ask yourself does it make sense that only one ST has shown time slips? There's ST owners that I bet you had the intention of getting this kit and beating shivs record.....that never happened.
    You are right it will be interesting to see the Stage 3 run but Tony will not be a liar and be straight up with us how the car performs at the strip.
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  3. #103
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    I've seen slips...in the 12's LOL.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    I've seen slips...in the 12's LOL.
    @dan avoN7 tuner shop cars don't count when it comes to production kits. This is not a novel concept and has been followed for decades.

    Independent time slips (12.5 @ 122mph is the best posted to date for the ST I've seen) and independent dynos are the only datasets that matter- Shiv/ Tony or BMW/ Chevy.

    The independent data from the single turbo is underwhelming at best. The VTT3 has yet to be tested Independently.

    EDIT: I posted the time slips on e90post from Georgia's car but it was deleted within 30 minutes.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    @dan avoN7 tuner shop cars don't count when it comes to production kits. This is not a novel concept and has been followed for decades.

    Independent time slips (12.5 @ 122mph is the best posted to date for the ST I've seen) and independent dynos are the only datasets that matter- Shiv/ Tony or BMW/ Chevy.

    The independent data from the single turbo is underwhelming at best. The VTT3 has yet to be tested Independently.

    EDIT: I posted the time slips on e90post from Georgia's car but it was deleted within 30 minutes.
    E90post really does suck nowadays. They just sensor everything
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    Over/Under on how long this takes to get deleted?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SfValley335i Click here to enlarge
    If vargas is JUST a hardware guy, then why is he posting dyno charts? I dont recall fftec posting dynos.
    Because he's beta testing his products. His goal right now is to prove to people that the prototype works, especially those that already ordered that. Once that is finished his job is done and he needs to get it in the hands of those who ordered it. You guys really need to stop complaining. All of you whine about the lack of data but please answer this... How come there are no Vishnu ST in the top 10 on dragtimes other than Shiv? Shiv is also not very far ahead LostMarine's numbers which were done on a full interior with far less power if I remember correctly. Pretty odd but oh yea I forgot the owners are out "enjoying their cars".
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  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by PEI330Ci Click here to enlarge
    This is great progress, but there's a parameter missing from the picture: Heat.

    The more power you make with an engine, the more heat that it absorbs, and must be dissipated by the cooling system. Are there any upgrades planned to address this?

    the coolant temps on my observation on RB's was at stock levels even on high boost. id like to see coolant temps after some road testing with these stage 3 turbos however. on the charge side, the 7" FMICs on most of these cars are overkill for the stock turbo power levels we are pushing and should be adequate for these 700 whp applications.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    What? Seriously do you have any idea what you're saying?

    rb's have a RIDICULOUS amount of midrange power and torque, way way way more than st's, if you think the rb's would be harder to launch with faster spool and more low/mid you're insane.
    Do you know how to read? What you just said is exactly what I posted. RB's have much more midrange power/torque making them easier to launch than a ST car. Thus making the results of a RB car much more repeatable..
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    @<u><a href="http://www.bimmerboost.com/member.php?u=9582" target="_blank">dan avoN7</a></u> tuner shop cars don't count when it comes to production kits. This is not a novel concept and has been followed for decades.

    Independent time slips (12.5 @ 122mph is the best posted to date for the ST I've seen) and independent dynos are the only datasets that matter- Shiv/ Tony or BMW/ Chevy.

    The independent data from the single turbo is underwhelming at best. The VTT3 has yet to be tested Independently.

    EDIT: I posted the time slips on e90post from Georgia's car but it was deleted within 30 minutes.
    Not everyone is in to drag racing their car and I'm sure that's the case here. You've been around the E46 scene long enough to know that of the forced induction cars people rarely go to the drag strip. Of the 100's of HPF kits out there there have only been a very small percentage who have ever attempted to bring their car to the drag strip, despite all of the dyno tuning, highway racing, etc. And again to touch base on the driver issue, and not to insult anyone, but most of these guys aren't driving their cars to the full potential. Here's an example of an E46 owner driving his newly single turbo'ed car followed by the shops owner driving it, see what I mean?

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    Understood Dan. The HPF cars were stupid fast on the freeway - but an embarrassment from 2007-2012 on the strip (until ProEfi, Saad and Marcus).

    This is not crucifying the ST or Vargas car. It works the same in every other market, blower or turbo kit.

    Tuner shop cars do not count PERIOD - so I don't give a rip what the Vishnu car ran - ever. I look at 60-130 runs as a cop-out - IMO - for cars that cannot hook in the 1/4 mile so I ignore those numbers. However, I realize that I am biased to the 1320 footer and an old fart. With a tuner like Vishnu that is proven to have used hidden bladders of fuel in the past - who knows what was done to that car for the 10.8 run.


    I saw many crappy 12's and 11's from 700+rwhp cars than I would like to see. It was embarrassing as a 46M owner. I expected deep 10's with that kind of power and money - as Marcus and SAAD later proved. I lived in Seattle from 1996-2009 and attended PIR and Pacific many a times.

    The HPF shop car doesn't count.
    The Vishnu shop car doesn't count.
    The Vargas shop car doesn't count.
    The Whipple shop car or truck didn't count either.

    Too much bias in the data from a shop vehicle - its a clear conflict of interest. By definition, the data is flawed. FACT.

    Mike

    p.s. That said, my money is on Vargas for drag-times.
    Last edited by MisterEm; 04-22-2013 at 10:27 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    Understood Dan. The HPF cars were stupid fast on the freeway - but an embarrassment from 2007-2012 on the strip (until ProEfi, Saad and Marcus).

    This is not crucifying the ST or Vargas car. It works the same in every other market, blower or turbo kit.

    Tuner shop cars do not count. PERIOD so I don't give a rip what the Vishnu car ran - ever. I look at 60-130 runs as a cop-out - IMO - for cars that cannot hook in the 1/4 mile so I ignore those numbers. However, I realize that I am biased to the 1320 footer and an old fart. With a tuner like Vishnu that is proven to have used hidden bladders of fuel in the past - who knows what was done to that car for the 10.8 run.


    I saw many crappy 12's and 11's from 700+rwhp cars than I would like to see. It was embarrassing as a 46M owner. I expected deep 10's with that kind of power and money - as Marcus and SAAD later proved. I lived in Seattle from 1996-2009 and attended PIR and Pacific many a times.

    The HPF shop car doesn't count.
    The Vishnu shop car doesn't count.
    The Vargas shop car doesn't count.
    The Whipple shop car or truck didn't count either.

    Too much bias in the data from a shop vehicle - its a clear conflict of interest. By definition, the data is flawed. FACT.

    Mike

    p.s. That said, my money is on Vargas for drag-times.
    Well said!! It's very convenient to show how good your car performs from 60-130 when it performs sub par in the 1/4 mile where data is almost non-existent.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    same old forum banter... let's see mid 10's at deep into the 130s... shiv, terry, tony or whoever... this is the next milestone
    I am looking for the same. Roll on events with varying starting speeds and times are neat but the timeslips are what I crave. + rep

    When Terry nails down the AT fix I smell some mid 130's traps.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    Too much bias in the data from a shop vehicle - its a clear conflict of interest. By definition, the data is flawed. FACT.
    3rd Party, Independent Verification... Gives it even more credibility if a Private Owner can replicate similar results as the Shop Car (illustrating that they were genuine, authentic results)
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  13. #113
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    @dan avoN7 tuner shop cars don't count when it comes to production kits. This is not a novel concept and has been followed for decades.

    Independent time slips (12.5 @ 122mph is the best posted to date for the ST I've seen) and independent dynos are the only datasets that matter- Shiv/ Tony or BMW/ Chevy.

    The independent data from the single turbo is underwhelming at best. The VTT3 has yet to be tested Independently.

    EDIT: I posted the time slips on e90post from Georgia's car but it was deleted within 30 minutes.
    GT said he also had a 12.0 seconds 125mph run.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory Click here to enlarge
    GT said he also had a 12.0 seconds 125mph run.
    As far as I can recall, his car hasn't been running "perfectly" for any of his runs either. He seemed to be getting quite irritated with the reliability of the car in general and I'm sure that the high HP flywheel issue didn't help. He has been quiet lately and he is a track junky. I know he has been busy with school.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory Click here to enlarge
    GT said he also had a 12.0 seconds 125mph run.
    Good to know Bear - I have yet to see that slip. + rep for you

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    3rd Party, Independent Verification... Gives it even more credibility if a Private Owner can replicate similar results as the Shop Car (illustrating that they were genuine, authentic results)
    Certainly. If every other ST owner was ripping low 11's and touching the 10's that would lend some credence to that kit.

    Right now the discrepancy between the Vishnu shop car and the kit owners suggests something different beyond driver ability.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    Certainly. If every other ST owner was ripping low 11's and touching the 10's that would lend some credence to that kit.

    Right now the discrepancy between the Vishnu shop car and the kit owners suggests something different beyond driver ability.
    Prob has a hidden bottle to help spool the big turbo ;D
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    so if I make a thread asking for ST 1/4 miles times it will get deleted?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    As far as I can recall, his car hasn't been running "perfectly" for any of his runs either. He seemed to be getting quite irritated with the reliability of the car in general and I'm sure that the high HP flywheel issue didn't help. He has been quiet lately and he is a track junky. I know he has been busy with school.
    Nothing more frustrating than having 600hp or whatever it is and coming home with slow time slips. I'm sure he will sort it out.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dan avoN7 Click here to enlarge
    Do you know how to read? What you just said is exactly what I posted. RB's have much more midrange power/torque making them easier to launch than a ST car. Thus making the results of a RB car much more repeatable..

    Not everyone is in to drag racing their car and I'm sure that's the case here. You've been around the E46 scene long enough to know that of the forced induction cars people rarely go to the drag strip. Of the 100's of HPF kits out there there have only been a very small percentage who have ever attempted to bring their car to the drag strip, despite all of the dyno tuning, highway racing, etc. And again to touch base on the driver issue, and not to insult anyone, but most of these guys aren't driving their cars to the full potential. Here's an example of an E46 owner driving his newly single turbo'ed car followed by the shops owner driving it, see what I mean?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk5oqtkJKXw
    easier to spin the wheels you mean?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    so if I make a thread asking for ST 1/4 miles times it will get deleted?
    You'll prob only get Shiv's 1/4 slip... MAYBE Captain Insano's, but I don't see too many other people with the ST kit being vocal about the performance "gains". The kit has turned out to be nothing more than a marketing tool with impressive dyno sheets.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    You'll prob only get Shiv's 1/4 slip... MAYBE Captain Insano's, but I don't see too many other people with the ST kit being vocal about the performance "gains". The kit has turned out to be nothing more than a marketing tool with impressive dyno sheets.
    Well I made the thread. I really would like to know what customer STs are putting down. I am not trying to troll...I have a feeling the responses will be interesting.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    the 7" FMICs on most of these cars are overkill for the stock turbo power levels we are pushing and should be adequate for these 700 whp applications.
    Yeah, people told me my 7" FMIC was overkill. They also told me the FX850 twin-disc kevlar/ceramic clutch was unnecessary. Click here to enlarge

    But I knew it was only a matter of time before someone released a well-engineered kit with real power... and I'm so glad it was Vargas & Dzenno because these guys actually share my passion for cars, rather than just trying to capitalize on it. Awesome job, guys! Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Well I made the thread. I really would like to know what customer STs are putting down. I am not trying to troll...I have a feeling the responses will be interesting.
    I'm betting that it won't get to Pg 3 before the thread gets closed
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    I'm betting that it won't get to Pg 3 before the thread gets closed
    Try post 3
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