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  1. #1
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    Gintani attempting to pair E60 M5 S85 V10 with dual clutch transmission - DCT swap

    It seems DCT transmission swaps are all the rage right now. The E60 M5 in particular would make good use of this swap as the S85 V10 was paired to an SMG-III gearbox instead of a DCT which came later and debuted with the E92 M3.

    Click here to enlarge

    Speaking from personal experience, Gintani told me about this swap years ago. BimmerBoost just has yet to see proof of it done. There is an E60 M5 owner who inquired about this transmission swap process with Gintani:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DinanE60M5
    Guys the time has officially to come to take my beast to another level. I was experiencing numerous problems with my SMG transmission and I didn't like the jerkiness. I am a huge fan of the E92 M3 DCT transmission because of how instant and quick the shifts are. Not to mention the less problem it causes; the DCT on those are solid reliable transmissions. BMW did a great job with the glorious NA V10 engine but did not perfect the automated transmission. I ordered the E92 M3 DCT transmission and flywheel yesterday and will start shipment next week. The shop who is going to make this amazing build is going to be Gintani. Gintani is well-known for their supercharger and twin-turbo kits they offer for M cars. At there facility, I saw an amazing build project which was a 2010 M6 with a twin-turbo kit pushing easily over 1000+ horsepower also equipped with their DCT transmission to handle perfect with the beast. My whole build is going to take roughly a month to complete and I can't wait till the parts come in! I will update you guys every time I have new updates on this build.
    That month time frame he mentioned came and went. Speaking from experience, do not count on Gintani to make a quoted deadline.

    So where are we now in this process? Gintani did not pick up the phone when BimmerBoost called. We do know the car is being wrapped up according to the owner. No doubt if you want to replicate this swap Gintani will require you to bring your car to them.

    Hopefully videos are posted as well as acceleration results so not only can we see that the swap works but that it provides a substantial performance benefit.

    Oh, and for those wondering about the difficulty:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Chariot
    So as many of you know, the DCT conversion has been done, so it IS possible. I've been doing a little bit of research and have put together a very *rough* plan to explore the reality of what would be required to make this work. I wanted to reach out to everyone in hopes that we could accumulate some useful info to help make this happen. So far, I've gathered the following:

    1. The bell housing bolt pattern is the same between the SMG & DCT.
    2. The shift lever is obviously different; mounting could be different as well as wiring. (will confirm later in ISTA)
    3. The DCT transmission appears to have an external fluid reservoir. Lines would need to be run and a reservoir mounted. (Fairly easy)
    4. The DCT flywheel has the same mounting bolt pattern as our. It appears that a DCT flywheel will bolt right up to the S85 crankshaft.
    5. A vast majority of the wiring for DCT electronics is internal in the valve body. The only electrical connection to the trans is a round 20 pin connector.
    6. The crank/trans speed sensors are the exact same PN between SMG3/DCT.
    7. Shift paddles are also directly compatible. Electrically, they are the same. (dead short/open circuit triggers when pulled)
    8. DCT gearbox suspension/mounting/crossmember appears to be different, but it looks like it could be modified/re-drilled to make the holes line up.
    9. M drivelogic button would need to be wired.
    10. There may be mechanical differences related to drive shaft length due to possible different length of the DCT trans. (If we're lucky the length difference is so slight it can me taken up in the slip joint allowing us to kep our drive shaft.)
    11. Vehicle may need coded to look for DCT. Because DCT was never an option for E60, coding would need to be done with a ghosted VO similar to retrofitting combox. Doesn't the m5 DCT have an e60 M5 kombi in it? If not we may need to use an e90 kombi from a DCT car. (Vin conflicts/mileage issues are easily resolved from the software side.)
    This swap will likely become a popular option for S85 V10 cars as install details with the necessary software come out. Plus, don't forget BMW did this swap themselves on the E60 M5 CSL.

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    swap is done I watched it on gintani ig on live story like two weeks ago he was driving it n banging gears at wot sounded insane

  3. #3
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
    swap is done I watched it on gintani ig on live story like two weeks ago he was driving it n banging gears at wot sounded insane
    Wasn't able to find what you are referring to but no doubt it will get done and others will start doing this swap with increasing frequency.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
    swap is done I watched it on gintani ig on live story like two weeks ago he was driving it n banging gears at wot sounded insane
    I don't see it either, i don't understand why such a milestone performance upgrade wouldn't be promoted more.

    Click here to enlarge

    /
    //A L E X A N D R E 1983 Photography///ALX1983.COM

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SpeedLimit? Click here to enlarge
    I don't see it either, i don't understand why such a milestone performance upgrade wouldn't be promoted more.
    yea he doesn't care much to promote I don't get either,the video wasn't posted but he live streamed it on Instagram ill try to get a video n post it up tom

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
    yea he doesn't care much to promote I don't get either
    They had me for years to help them but never utilized it.

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    Just to clarify Alex @ Gintani messaged saying the car works and also that he didn't pick up as he was on the dyno. I call him direct and don't go through the shop.

    Videos and so forth are coming they say.

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    SMG's are headaches on these aging vehicles. Depending on ease of the swap, this could become popular.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BlackJetE90OC Click here to enlarge
    SMG's are headaches on these aging vehicles. Depending on ease of the swap, this could become popular.
    Also could be interesting for a complete swap into another chassis. An S85 V10 with DCT in a lighter BMW would be nuts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
    swap is done I watched it on gintani ig on live story like two weeks ago he was driving it n banging gears at wot sounded insane
    +1 I also seen that live, sure did look like a dct the way he was aggressively shifting.

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    This again..... Been waiting years... S85 with DCT is something I would have thought BMW them selves couldn't resist doing, the reason I sold my E60 M5 after a month was due to the horrible SMG trans, was ok in its day but after driving a DCT or equivalent car nothing compares. Hopefully some real world results and proof comes out of this.

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    The SMG is hardly horrible. It's actually more involving IMO but there is no denying the performance and driveability benefits of a DCT.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by gzim335 Click here to enlarge
    yea he doesn't care much to promote I don't get either,the video wasn't posted but he live streamed it on Instagram ill try to get a video n post it up tom
    Thx @gzim335 btw, your IG is CRAZY!

    Click here to enlarge

    /
    //A L E X A N D R E 1983 Photography///ALX1983.COM

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    S85/DCT swap into a Clownshoe �� FTW!

  15. #15
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Also could be interesting for a complete swap into another chassis. An S85 V10 with DCT in a lighter BMW would be nuts.
    Indeed Click here to enlarge

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    Speaking from experience, do not count on Gintani to make a quoted deadline.
    LOL.
    So how long did this end up taking?...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M-Theory Click here to enlarge
    S85 with DCT is something I would have thought BMW them selves couldn't resist doing
    They did do it...

    Click here to enlarge

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVH Click here to enlarge
    LOL.
    So how long did this end up taking?...
    This swap took a few months I think? But they should be able to do it quicker now.

    Is yours finally finished?

  19. #19
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    Nope...I'll update when it's time.
    I'd say soon but...you know...Click here to enlarge

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SVH Click here to enlarge
    Nope...I'll update when it's time.
    I'd say soon but...you know...Click here to enlarge
    It's like a black hole...

  21. #21
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    Wasnt Gintani suppose to have a DCT done like 2-3 years ago on their silver shop M6 with that 700hp supercharger kit?

    Any updates on this customers DCT car?
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

  22. #22
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    Wasnt Gintani suppose to have a DCT done like 2-3 years ago on their silver shop M6 with that 700hp supercharger kit?
    You're right, that was originally the plan. I'm not sure why that didn't work out but it seems they have everything they need in order to do the swaps now.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 5soko Click here to enlarge
    Any updates on this customers DCT car?

    We're just waiting on videos I guess.

  23. #23
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    There are other members on M5board (who are extremely talented) working on this as well...the mechanical stuff is all easier than can be...the problem is the computer stuff. That's going to be where all the real work is done.

    If I keep my M5 long enough I'd like to do this at some point...there is for sure something charming about the way the SMG works...but it is unrealialbe, it's a pain in the ass to drive smoothly, and at anything other than max attack, it's slow. Even in S6, at partial throttle it is very slow to shift. Of course at WOT it's like being kicked in the chest by a horse. If this can be done for a reasonable price in the near future...I'm all in.

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    No solid updates but the owner sounds very content even though its past the original completion date. He just keeps chiming in saying it'll be worth the wait. I'm assuming a lot of proprietary techniques are being applied that they're keeping under wraps?

    Click here to enlarge

    /
    //A L E X A N D R E 1983 Photography///ALX1983.COM

  25. #25
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by leveraged sellout Click here to enlarge
    If I keep my M5 long enough I'd like to do this at some point...there is for sure something charming about the way the SMG works...but it is unrealialbe, it's a pain in the ass to drive smoothly, and at anything other than max attack, it's slow. Even in S6, at partial throttle it is very slow to shift. Of course at WOT it's like being kicked in the chest by a horse. If this can be done for a reasonable price in the near future...I'm all in.
    I think you summarize it well.

    The SMG is awesome for that raw sort of sequential feel and it made my E46 M3 feel like a race car.

    Is it as easy to live with as a DCT and does it perform as well? No, not by a long shot.

    The SMG paddles do feel more connected though.

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