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  1. #1
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    Jerkiness / Stalling with 2004 330i SMG

    Hi everyone,

    I just joined a few days ago, I was searching for something and stumbled upon this forum. Glad I did, looks like there are quite a few very smart minds over here compared to some other boards…

    Hopefully, someone has had experience with an issue I'm having and can possibly shed some light on it.

    I have a 2004 330i with SMG / SSG / Whatever you want to call it.


    There are two major issues I'm having:

    * Car will sometimes stall at near-idle engine speeds, usually going from slow vehicle speed to a stop. (This has happened twice going from reverse to forward gear.)

    * Car exhibits a jerkiness in all gears below 3000 RPMs approximately

    * I noticed today that it seems to be knocking more then I would expect.


    I started doing some data logging using BMWLogger, but haven't really drawn too many conclusions yet. One thing I did notice with the reverse-> forward stalling is that my IAT values were over 150 degrees during times of stalls or near stalls. It seems that once the IAT comes down, stalling is much less likely to manifest itself.

    Recent work to the car:
    * Intake boots / seals have been replaced which was a huge problem
    * Spark plugs and coils have been replaced
    * VANOS seals replaced
    * Intake smoke tested OK after all above items done.


    The things that I am leaning towards are the DISA valve, and there was a thread talking about connections to the VANOS unit not being very tight and people had crimped the connectors a bit to make more contact, and that seemed to help people, but I dunno.

    Any thoughts / questions that I can follow-up on are greatly appreciated.


    Thanks for having an awesome forum!


    -Matt

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mdrobnak Click here to enlarge
    Hi everyone,

    I just joined a few days ago, I was searching for something and stumbled upon this forum. Glad I did, looks like there are quite a few very smart minds over here compared to some other boards…

    Hopefully, someone has had experience with an issue I'm having and can possibly shed some light on it.

    I have a 2004 330i with SMG / SSG / Whatever you want to call it.


    There are two major issues I'm having:

    * Car will sometimes stall at near-idle engine speeds, usually going from slow vehicle speed to a stop. (This has happened twice going from reverse to forward gear.)

    * Car exhibits a jerkiness in all gears below 3000 RPMs approximately

    * I noticed today that it seems to be knocking more then I would expect.


    I started doing some data logging using BMWLogger, but haven't really drawn too many conclusions yet. One thing I did notice with the reverse-> forward stalling is that my IAT values were over 150 degrees during times of stalls or near stalls. It seems that once the IAT comes down, stalling is much less likely to manifest itself.

    Recent work to the car:
    * Intake boots / seals have been replaced which was a huge problem
    * Spark plugs and coils have been replaced
    * VANOS seals replaced
    * Intake smoke tested OK after all above items done.


    The things that I am leaning towards are the DISA valve, and there was a thread talking about connections to the VANOS unit not being very tight and people had crimped the connectors a bit to make more contact, and that seemed to help people, but I dunno.

    Any thoughts / questions that I can follow-up on are greatly appreciated.


    Thanks for having an awesome forum!


    -Matt
    You need to reteach the SMG before you throw parts at it. Find a shop that understands that procedure, or a friend with a GT1/INPA setup. The SMG is not a smooth system unless you drive it like a madman from each stoplight. It is not a friendly street cruising system. If it helps, I had 4+ years and 55,000 miles on the system.

    No amount of VANOS work will fix the low speed jerkiness without reteaching the clutch. If after reteaching the suite of SMG functions your car behaves as such, start the datalogging effort with a proper BMW tool.

    Good luck.

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    I have INPA / DIS etc at my disposal on another laptop. I am wondering if there is any correlation to the gearbox, but that's only with relation to the stalling issue. I am talking about jerkiness well after the clutch is completely engaged.

    The clutch was replaced about 10k miles ago, and the system was bled / re-taught then. Which SMG re-teaching are you referring to?

    Also, which datalogger do you recommend? INPA is good, but datalogging to a file seems to be a bit of a pain in the butt.

    Thanks!

    -Matt

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    Click here to enlarge

    That is from a vey short data log showing startup, reversing, and then going into first gear. Then it stalls.

    Also, I would have to disagree with the idea that SMG can't be smooth - with proper throttle modulation, I find it to be pretty good. Automatic mode isn't good, no argument there, but it works in a pinch.

    Since I can't post direct links
    on www dot drobnak dot com

    at /datalogs/Start_and_Stall.dlg

    you can download the log to view in BMWLogger.

    -Matt

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    Have you used the clutch reteaching and reset functions yet?

    There are a few threads on M3forum detailing the procedure and proper order to perform the tests: Yaw sensor, slip-point teach etc.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mdrobnak Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    That is from a vey short data log showing startup, reversing, and then going into first gear. Then it stalls.

    Also, I would have to disagree with the idea that SMG can't be smooth - with proper throttle modulation, I find it to be pretty good.
    I could always be smoother with a 3rd pedal around town with the SMG - even brand new or with a fresh clutch. On the other hand, the SMG was damn impressive and consistent at or near the edge and was better than me with a 3rd pedal. Keep in mind we are not comparing apples to apples with the S54 vs M54 and the SMG logic between cars and models. Another 100+ whp over the 330i and a different logic/software you may (or may not) change your mind.

    I am not an SMG hater and actually miss my SMG system at times, but only when the car is at or near the edge.

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    Actually, I'm trying to get my car ready for a turbo kit from Technique Tuning, so we'll see how that plays out soon. Click here to enlarge

    Oh, and SMG can be terrible at times if you confuse it coming down a hill or are indecisive about how much throttle you're giving it when starting off, so we're not in disagreement on this for the most part.

    Also, keep in mind it's not just control strategies that differ - the hardware itself is different. In the non-M vehicles, Magneti Marelli is the manufacturer of the robotics / control hardware, where Bosch provided the hardware on the M vehicles.

    I'll search over on m3f and see if I can find anything, and see how that goes.

    Thanks.

    -Matt

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    Sweet. That will be a fun ride with a hairdryer attached to it. I was not aware the actuator was different with the M and the non-M sequential box. Thanks for the insight.

    Here is one of the threads: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=343511

    I had it performed several times during my SMG tenure. It takes a few hot-cold cycles to figure itself out so give it a few days to get acquainted.

    Good Luck

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    FYI:

    With SSG in INPA, the only options under adaptations is:
    * Decrease Pressure
    * Bleed clutch
    * Complete adaptation

    So I selected complete adaptation and start...

    That was interesting..it finds all the gears, has you hold the brake while it does the clutch point..

    Then if you look in status -> others

    You see "Adaptation state gear box:
    The end
    No error


    Adap. state cl. biting p. :
    Clutch kiss point adapted

    Adap state cl . character.:
    Clutch characteristic adapted"

    Also fun for that screen is the "in mode" number of seconds counters..will post screenshot later.

    After doing the adaptation, and clearing idle and knock sensor adaptations, things look good so far.
    Shifting is a bit improved. I think doing the "full reset" was a good idea that I should have done earlier, thanks for the suggestion.

    Some minor hunting of idle in certain cases. Makes me wonder if the idle control valve has issues. I note that seems to be absent in INPA, unless I'm blind or my German sucks (which it does.)

    -Matt

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    Adaptations screen in INPA:

    Click here to enlarge

    Other status screen in INPA:
    Click here to enlarge

    We can clearly see "Manual Normal" is the setting used most on this car. (I'm the second owner I think.)

    -Matt

  10. #10
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    Moved to the M54 section.

  11. #11
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Going to try and flash the DME and EGS today to the latest available, which it seems there are updates, even though I asked BMW multiple times to ensure it was on the latest...Next items after that are checking / cleaning the idle control valve, replacing the battery if necessary, and sorting out some driveline issues - seems like there is some play in the driveline that shouldn't be there...

    Also, wasn't sure if general or M54 was better section, hence putting it in general, but maybe someone who frequents this section will have some insight too. Click here to enlarge

    -Matt

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    Wow, Progman (SSS) seriously takes a long time to do the updates. 73 minutes for the DME. 35 minutes to go. Click here to enlarge When I did tuning on Fords, EEC-V used to take 2-3 mins, PowerPC based stuff took 8.. Geez.

    -Matt

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    Well, that was fun. Car does seem to act a bit better now that all is settled.

    Finished flashing, then reset all adaptations....Cycled ignition off, then on, waited 30-40 seconds (for the throttle to recalibrate), hit the accelerator pedal once, then started it..

    Traction control light, and BRAKE light are on. Hmm. That's not cool. Pulled codes, something about a temperature error, and EGS error, and a fuel tank level error. (INPA has gone back into German, so not so easy to decode errors..)

    Ok, maybe it needs some driving...put it into 1st, and that works, OK. Go down the driveway, doesn't stall. Yay.

    Start driving up the hill, shift to second and....instead of throttle cut -> gear change -> engage.... throttle cut -> throttle blip to much higher RPMs -> gear engages slowly....

    Oh, crap.

    Pull over onto a flat-ish area....re run the SSG adapation...and clear codes again. Then it was good.

    Hesitation definitely seems better, but I need more time and warmer air temps to really confirm.

    I'm going to flash the EGS tomorrow, which is only 27 minutes to do, and then bring it to my mechanic to look at the last mechanical issues...

    After that, if someone can get NickG to actually respond to my email, I kinda want to buy a turbo kit lol...

    -Matt

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mdrobnak Click here to enlarge
    After that, if someone can get NickG to actually respond to my email, I kinda want to buy a turbo kit lol...
    I doubt he would ignore you he's just busy. So you want a turbo setup for the M54?

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    That's the plan. It has been the goal for a while, but things have finally aligned to make it happen.

    As for being ignored, I agree it is probably down to being busy, I just thought I had compensated for that in setting my response time expectations. I may have been optimistic. Click here to enlarge

    -Matt

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    With the car being SMG I take it you are overseas?

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    Interesting conclusion. Click here to enlarge

    I thought I had it in my profile - apparently not - I'm in New York. It did take me some time finding a 330 to my liking, and I ended up buying this one from California.

    -Matt

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    SSG update went without any major issues, though SSS had issues restoring the Car & Key memory...not sure if that actually mattered, I think most things were at stock anyway. Re-ran the transmission adaptation again and all seems well. 1-2 shift in normal seems a little lazier then it used to be, but that's about it. I wonder if people complained about 'harshness'. Not sure. This update only took a little over 25 minutes.

    -Matt

    EDIT: It's always quite irritating to me that I was told by a local dealer that there were no updates available, when clearly there were....hence why I don't go to the dealer anymore. So much for expertise. LOL

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mdrobnak Click here to enlarge
    Interesting conclusion. Click here to enlarge

    I thought I had it in my profile - apparently not - I'm in New York. It did take me some time finding a 330 to my liking, and I ended up buying this one from California.

    -Matt
    I don't know if it's me but I don't ever remember the E46 330i having an SMG option in the USA?

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    As per bim..fest wiki:

    "SMG or Sequential Manual Gearbox will become available for most rear-wheel drive 3 Series models beginning October 2003 production. It will only be available in conjunction with the sport package. SMG will not be available in conjunction with the Performance Package or all-wheel drive models."

    You could actually order it on a 325i with sport package. Those are SUPER rare.

    If you search on youtube for 330 smg launch control you can see how it works on the 330, which is also slightly different from the M3.

    It's fun, and it was a good idea at the time I bought the car (used). I'd probably get a 6 speed now, but I'm not running to get rid of the transmission. Click here to enlarge

    -Matt

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mdrobnak Click here to enlarge
    SSG update went without any major issues, though SSS had issues restoring the Car & Key memory...not sure if that actually mattered, I think most things were at stock anyway. Re-ran the transmission adaptation again and all seems well. 1-2 shift in normal seems a little lazier then it used to be, but that's about it. I wonder if people complained about 'harshness'. Not sure. This update only took a little over 25 minutes.

    -Matt

    EDIT: It's always quite irritating to me that I was told by a local dealer that there were no updates available, when clearly there were....hence why I don't go to the dealer anymore. So much for expertise. LOL
    I think we've all learned that dealers do not diagnose or repair anything. They throw parts at problems and hope they stick. Any competent dealer technician takes off for private work.

    The shifts will be lazy for several hot-cold cycles anytime you do the adaptation procedure. Give it a week and it will be neck-breaking again.

    There was a couple 330 SMG's on Manheim when I found my 46M 5 years ago. I thought the auction guys had the advertisements wrong.... I guess not!

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    I seriously had no idea we had any US E46 330's with SMG.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Today was the first warm day since the flash, and so far:
    * No stalls after heat-soak of intake.
    * Idle never gets super-rough..there are some times where it goes from unnoticable idling to slightly rough.
    * Suuuper minor hesitation as in...low enough to be unsure whether it's really there or not.

    So, again, a screw-you to Mt Kisco and Westchester BMW. Chasing one's tail for something that can't be fixed is quite frustrating.

    Now, the only thing is I might need a rear diff - the clunking noise has been traced to the diff, but it's not worth getting a used stock diff. (There seems to be a bit of excess drivetrain lash ... basically things move if you hold the brake and simply switch from forward to reverse and back...)

    I did both the rear subframe and the front reinforcement kit from Turner Motorsport, not sure if that amplifies things as a result. This is my first BMW.

    On another note, does anyone have any experience with the Giken Limited Slip Diff that Turner has available?

    -Matt

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mdrobnak Click here to enlarge
    Now, the only thing is I might need a rear diff - the clunking noise has been traced to the diff, but it's not worth getting a used stock diff. (There seems to be a bit of excess drivetrain lash ... basically things move if you hold the brake and simply switch from forward to reverse and back...)
    Diff clunk is a BMW trademark...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Diff clunk is a BMW trademark...

    Well, it's more of a metallic "tink" type of sound even as far as going from deceleration to acceleration or vice versa. Not every time, but most times. Most noticeable in lower gears, hence the theory that it's too much driveline lash going on here... But if that's "normal" then I guess I'll just have to deal with it...

    -Matt

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