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  1. #151
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    Bias aside those are impressive dyno numbers and I'm eager to see how it performs on the street. How about a head to head run between the single and Vargas twinsClick here to enlarge? On a serious note though I don't think that engine will last long. Correct me if I'm wrong but the s54 is a more sturdy engine (high strung but robust), and I can't think of any around 700hp with stock internals.
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  2. #152
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    Bias aside those are impressive dyno numbers and I'm eager to see how it performs on the street. How about a head to head run between the single and Vargas twinsClick here to enlarge? On a serious note though I don't think that engine will last long. Correct me if I'm wrong but the s54 is a more sturdy engine (high strung but robust), and I can't think of any around 700hp with stock internals.
    Cant edit my original post, but I stand corrected max psi hit 697 on stock internals with the s54. Also a random thought, why would anyone want that much hp in a car like this? Yeah the n54 has been able to make insane hp relatively cheap, but it seems like any thing over 550ish is pointless. Even with all these hp records the trap times haven't really gotten any better. These cars can't put the power down. These cars arent straight line speed cars and they never will be (same for the high hp e46 m3s). I'm not going to lie though if I had the money for a 700hp m3/335 I would do it to just cause I can lol
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  3. #153
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    Cant edit my original post, but I stand corrected max psi hit 697 on stock internals with the s54. Also a random thought, why would anyone want that much hp in a car like this? Yeah the n54 has been able to make insane hp relatively cheap, but it seems like any thing over 550ish is pointless. Even with all these hp records the trap times haven't really gotten any better. These cars can't put the power down. These cars arent straight line speed cars and they never will be (same for the high hp e46 m3s). I'm not going to lie though if I had the money for a 700hp m3/335 I would do it to just cause I can lol
    Hehe, not when you run with cars that make 750+ rwhp or awhp all day long Click here to enlarge

  4. #154
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by G0TB00ST? Click here to enlarge
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the s54 is a more sturdy engine (high strung but robust), and I can't think of any around 700hp with stock internals.
    You're not wrong but there are cars at 700 whp on stock internals.

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  5. #155
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    @VargasTurboTech

    I went and took a look at your old graphs. You're definitely spooling worse now than you were earlier. By nearly 500rpms. If its delaying the initial torque hit that long, no telling what the other effects are (like taking forever to build up 30psi). Not sure if this is a boost leak or what; but there's definitely something going on.

    FWIW, my AA BOV started leaking randomly a few months ago and I wasn't even aware of it until I started running logs again. I was missing the boost target and getting underboost codes. I had to replace it with a craptastic ebay model that now holds the boost. It looks like the spring just got too weak and even on maximum tightness, it would still open at >12psi

  6. #156
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    Oh how things change Click here to enlarge give shiv data on egt and fueling and he forgets he literally preached to everyone about flat torque curves, not pushing for more on 91 oct due to EGTs (sensors he never EVER had on his N54 and this is fact)...a dyno at smoothing of 5 wont be 700 but he'd rather post smoothing zero now as it shows a bit more power..

    No worries Shivster Click here to enlarge you're just showing your unethical self, once again contradicting your own words in a matter of days...i saw your post about fully supporting a guy that openly said he's stealing IP from other flash tuners couple days ago...do as you wish but man you're stooping low...we'll just keep doing what we planned and can do, no bs, and get the most out of this car with the current hardware...you have been a great example of who not to follow while tuning this car and we intend to keep it that way
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 04-18-2013 at 07:49 AM.
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  7. #157
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Oh how things change Click here to enlarge give shiv data on egt and fueling and he forgets he literally preached to everyone about flat torque curves, not pushing for more on 91 oct due to EGTs (sensors he never EVER had on his N54 and this is fact).
    lol, forgot about that part too! once again, "we didnt go higher because its unsafe, yada yada"
    how do you know, you cant even see whats unsafe since your not monitoring- actually here look, we did- WE are good. AND WE have a REAL fueling fix..
    "BRB- hey guys, look what we can do but never did 7 months ago for no apparent reason and now we are the greatest, EVER!"

  8. #158
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    Honestly pathetic man
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Honestly pathetic man
    I wouldnt stress over it honestly. the emperor has no clothes on.. there is ZERO reason anyone new will be going with him and his "solution"
    from here out. VTT cheaper price, better hardware, better tuning/open tuning, no BS

    honestly, i think he found the power limit and is baiting you guys in. That may not have even been insanos car, but his.. and id bet he found a limit not much over that, hence his car being down, and now says its not the highest dyno figure he achieved, to get you guys to jump high- and when/if something lets go, he can start a new campaign

  10. #160
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I wouldnt stress over it honestly. the emperor has no clothes on.. there is ZERO reason anyone new will be going with him and his "solution"
    from here out. VTT cheaper price, better hardware, better tuning/open tuning, no BS

    honestly, i think he found the power limit and is baiting you guys in. That may not have even been insanos car, but his.. and id bet he found a limit not much over that, hence his car being down, and now says its not the highest dyno figure he achieved, to get you guys to jump high- and when/if something lets go, he can start a new campaign
    Which is why I think the baseline tuning needs to be finished before shooting the moon. Need to get this weird spool issue fixed, and midrange tweaked.

  11. #161
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    @VargasTurboTech
    Do you happen to have the dynographs of your before/after with the HPFP? It'd be interesting to see if this spool delay shows up.

  12. #162
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    Tony can you run a uncorrected 0 smoothing graph? Be interesting to see the number. I have been playing with my Dynojet runs & even a low mod car like mine shows jumps in WHP if I select UNCORRECTED 0 instead of SAE or STD 5. Have to think the higher the base WHP is the bigger the jump will be.
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  13. #163
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    I wouldnt stress over it honestly. the emperor has no clothes on.. there is ZERO reason anyone new will be going with him and his "solution"
    from here out. VTT cheaper price, better hardware, better tuning/open tuning, no BS

    honestly, i think he found the power limit and is baiting you guys in. That may not have even been insanos car, but his.. and id bet he found a limit not much over that, hence his car being down, and now says its not the highest dyno figure he achieved, to get you guys to jump high- and when/if something lets go, he can start a new campaign
    Its ok, everyone chooses to do as they please. On our end, as long as:

    1) Tony's asking for more power
    2) There is minimal to no timing corrections across the board
    3) There's plenty of fuel coming FROM the car's OEM fuel system
    4) We aren't relying on fueling the car with meth splattering the charge pipes!
    5) EGTs are reasonable
    6) Boost is stable
    7) Timing is at MBT

    Only if all of the above have checkmarks next to them we'll comply to push forward and as you can see Shiv's not in the picture. Its become clear though that we are very much in the picture when it comes to Shiv's latest numbers, maybe at spot #1. Breaking something is inevitable, its a matter of pushing power and hopefully everyone is well aware of that.
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  14. #164
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    Gentlemen, we are in a different N54 world... a very serious one...

    We have 600 whp cars on 91, numerous turbo upgrades, a true and apparent hpfp upgrade and an open source ecu flashing system on the way... do we see where this is headed? this will be a legendary motor
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    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  15. #165
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    Gentlemen, we are in a different N54 world... a very serious one...

    We have 600 whp cars on 91, numerous turbo upgrades, a true and apparent hpfp upgrade and an open source ecu flashing system on the way... do we see where this is headed? this will be a legendary motor
    To some it has always been a LEGEND Click here to enlarge N54 FTMFW!
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  16. #166
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Which is why I think the baseline tuning needs to be finished before shooting the moon. Need to get this weird spool issue fixed, and midrange tweaked.
    @Sered , those older dynos were done in 5th gear as the 6MT's gearing is 1:1 only in 5th. Also, being a much longer pull (time wise), and on 91 octane only, tuning this was a very important metric to us due to heat/load induced timing corrections. It was important to see on VERY long pulls (longer than what 3rd or 4th take) what the motor would do. This is why we felt our 91 tuning or boost we used or whatever else tuning parameter wasn't questionable or unsafe. Vargas has run that 91 octane tune on the street many many times before hitting the dyno and as he said too there was never a single hiccup. The name of the game was, do it well in 5th and if its consistent there it'll be consistent everywhere Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #167
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    To some it has always been a LEGEND Click here to enlarge N54 FTMFW!
    Click here to enlarge

  18. #168
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
    Hehe, not when you run with cars that make 750+ rwhp or awhp all day long Click here to enlarge
    Haha can't argue with that I guess
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  19. #169
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    @Sered , those older dynos were done in 5th gear as the 6MT's gearing is 1:1 only in 5th. Also, being a much longer pull (time wise), and on 91 octane only, tuning this was a very important metric to us due to heat/load induced timing corrections. It was important to see on VERY long pulls (longer than what 3rd or 4th take) what the motor would do. This is why we felt our 91 tuning or boost we used or whatever else tuning parameter wasn't questionable or unsafe. Vargas has run that 91 octane tune on the street many many times before hitting the dyno and as he said too there was never a single hiccup. The name of the game was, do it well in 5th and if its consistent there it'll be consistent everywhere Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. And I agree. But how do you account for the torque peak being at 5800rpms? Surely gear differences isn't going to drastically affect the location of the torque peak by >1000rpms. Because that's what's happened. Look at how far it shifted to the right; it's as if you're running different turbos.

    I understand the need for dynos at different gearings, but you're telling me there's not enough engine load in 4th gear to get the turbos to max boost until > 5500 rpms?

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    Click here to enlarge

  20. #170
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    Understand, I'm not trying to criticize, so if it comes across as that, I apologize. I'm trying to understand Click here to enlarge

  21. #171
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    No worries at all. I understand...Dynoing in 5th vs 4th makes a substantial difference in spoolup. Tony's also looking over all the connections on the car to make sure there are no boost leaks as once or twice before he did find a slight leak. We also need to do spool tuning. So far all we've done is ensure wastegates are 100% shut during spoolup but there are more things to be done and we already know what helps spool from earlier testing before the 1st dyno session. Things just take time and car is not on a dyno all the time unfortunately.
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  22. #172
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    Gotcha.

    IIRC the turbos tend to spool more quickly on the road than on the dyno, correct?

    One thing that is nice here is the torque band is gradual; making it much easier to manage when driving it hard. I've seen enough Supras with turbos that are like on/off switches and become very difficult to drive.

  23. #173
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Gotcha.

    IIRC the turbos tend to spool more quickly on the road than on the dyno, correct?

    One thing that is nice here is the torque band is gradual; making it much easier to manage when driving it hard. I've seen enough Supras with turbos that are like on/off switches and become very difficult to drive.
    On the road the car will spool about 500rpm sooner than what it does on a dyno like a Dynojet which would mean on average putting down 500wtq at 4.5k rpm even with this current unfinished tune and hardware setup. When racing a 6MT N54 post shift RPM is 5k+ rpm so in an actual roll on that spool up would do fine. However, in the 1/4 mile you want all the torque you can get down lower to get the mass of the car to move off the line. Torque is what makes it get going quick off the line, obviously provided there's enough work done on the car to put that torque down to the ground and stick.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 04-18-2013 at 11:08 AM.
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  24. #174
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    Sered, I am right there with you buddy. I wont sugar coat it, right now the car is spooling like $#@!. Something is wrong, we get 20 psi and it takes us 1000 more RPM to get 8 more. At 20 psi these turbo are spooled, any more boost should just be on tap and the boost curve should go almost straight up. I am not sure what is wrong as I have not taken the car apart yet, but it could be as simple as a leaking BOV, boost leak or plugged air filters etc. I will be trying to figure it out as this is a real head scratcher for me.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    To some it has always been a LEGEND Click here to enlarge N54 FTMFW!
    +1 for the cost of this platform, ease of tuning, aftermarket support and overall looks/feel of the car ( BMW ftw) there is nothing else out there that can touch it. The new m3 will hopefully be the icing on the cake and be even better. I don't know how anyone can't be excited about what the n54 has become and where it's heading... Big thanks to PTF, cobb and tony / Vargas for taking this thing to the next level!
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