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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Njz Click here to enlarge
    Do what you all want, I personally will be paying for the upgrade from vargas before attempting any high concentrate runs of e85 again. This was my experience your mileage may vary. IMO $499 for some piece of mind is a great deal.
    There's also no guarantee that the Vargas HPFP (which is an upgraded OEM pump) will be any more reliable in the long term use. It's also not any more E85 friendly then the OEM pump because neither of them are built to E85 spec (unlike the Walbro LPFP). So at this point you're basically hoping that because this upgraded OEM pump can outflow a stock HPFP, that it will be more reliable & handle E85 better.
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  2. #52
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    This upgrade is huge no doubt. I am interested to see how this pump handles the demand at low rpm on fast spooling turbo's with E85 (stage 2, RB). Hopefully the changes he made will partially translate to low rpm/high load fueling situations too.

    The beauty of this upgrade (if I have followed his logic and are a good enough guesser) is that lots of the fuel metering type aspects of the pump are unchanged, its peak output isn't really changed per say, just its ability to sustain that output (efficiency of a sort) as RPM and pump speed increase in a high demand environment. From this perspective, the pump should theoretically have similar reliability to the OEM pump (for better or for worse) since it's not really working any less or any more. So, you may want a backup lol.
    Last edited by V8Bait; 04-15-2013 at 01:29 PM.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    There's also no guarantee that the Vargas HPFP (which is an upgraded OEM pump) will be any more reliable in the long term use. It's also not any more E85 friendly then the OEM pump because neither of them are built to E85 spec (unlike the Walbro LPFP). So at this point you're basically hoping that because this upgraded OEM pump can outflow a stock HPFP, that it will be more reliable & handle E85 better.

    True dat...
    08 535i 6MT - JB4 G5 ISO - Luke performance flash - E40 & BMS 100% Meth - AR design catless DP - ETS 5" intercooler - BMS DCI - BMS OCC - ER chargepipe - HKS BOV - K-sport coilovers - UUC evo SSK - CDV deleted - ACS spoiler - Click here to enlarge

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MisterEm Click here to enlarge
    + repped you back!
    Cheers Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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  5. #55
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    Very true I am hoping it works but I trust Tony when he says he has done some testing and it all looks positive. I can only speak from my own experience that the OEM pump in stock form failed less than 50 miles after filling up with full e85. i am ordering a new pump and fuel rail to ensure that old issues are not going to pop up and so I can get a clean shot at high concentration e85 fueling. If it fails, I will be disappointed but I will just go back to my original plan of supplementing copious amounts of meth to easy the burden on the HPFP. IF this works as I hope it does, I will be getting upgraded turbos in the near future as well since this is now my major roadblock. As soon as this issue is solved, the next inevitable issue will be the AT falling apart.
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  6. #56
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    4 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    finally someone that solve the hpfp problem for big power levels!

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Great work VTT!

    On another note, Shiv will be releasing his "upgrade pump program for all Procede owners" within hours now.
    Click here to enlarge

  8. #58
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    Does this pump change any down-low fuel characteristics? Does it run the high side at higher pressure, or is it simply 'better at sustaining' high pressure? I'm just looking at some details as to how it 'works' better and by 'how much'.

    Are you maxing out fueling at your 700WHP Stage 3? If so is there more room for improvement to get to 800WHP?
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    Does this pump change any down-low fuel characteristics? Does it run the high side at higher pressure, or is it simply 'better at sustaining' high pressure? I'm just looking at some details as to how it 'works' better and by 'how much'.

    Are you maxing out fueling at your 700WHP Stage 3? If so is there more room for improvement to get to 800WHP?
    Fuel pump will act the same as stock down low, the pump is controlled via the DME with solenoids and electronics, the DME requests what PSI it wants to see for any given engine load, boost etc. But if you go WOT I have seen from monitoring it, it just dumps 2500-3000 PSI to the injectors to supply fuel then starts controlling it more precisely, problem was sustaining that pressure, and also keeping the flow up at high fuel demand, the pump runs no higher pressure then an otherwise stock pump would, the DME tells it what to do and it does it. Difference is, before the DME would say I want this and the pump would say I cant give you that and pressure would drop off, trims would sky rocket as the car is using the available fuel and before you know it they are maxed and car is leaning out. We had 675 on fuel only and the trims were negative, meaning the DME had so much fuel it was pulling fuel out to hit the AFR's it wanted. So that tells us it has more in it. How much we do not know yet. But not many people are at this level so for right now its safe to say its "enough" for all but a small grouping.

  10. #60
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    Technically speaking without a piggyback in play fuel trims are based off DME observed fuel pressure. So they should remain in the ballpark even with a poorly flowing pump that can't hold pressure. Because as pressure drops the DME knows to increase IPW to compensate. The real indicator of higher volume will be the pump holding full pressure across the power band. Especially in the midrange torque area where we currently have a major drop. Based on what I know about this upgrade it sounds very promising and props to Vargas for working out the details and offering it to the community. Click here to enlarge
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  11. #61
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    @VargasTurboTech @Terry@BMS thank you both for your technical input Click here to enlarge Certainly sounds like a promising upgrade.
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  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Stock Turbos can already run 100% E85 with just the Walbro 450 LPFP upgrade (Stock HPFP). I'm personally doing this (supported by a COBB PROtune to make sure the fueling has been adjusted appropriately) & I've never maxed my trims running my straight E85 map.
    Not everyone can. I did it, but HPFP couldn't keep up past 15psi. YMMV
    Change is constant

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    If you are interested, contact us via email Tony@vargasturbo.com and we can discuss how you want to procede.
    Heh not sure if anyone else caught this but seems some subliminal marketing got to you Tony Click here to enlarge

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  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Heh not sure if anyone else caught this but seems some subliminal marketing got to you Tony Click here to enlarge
    Or maybe he knows better and is just rubbing it in Click here to enlarge

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    Very interested in this!
    So do we think there will be any gains made running this HPFP pump with either the Vargas Stage II or RB's?
    Low, mid, or high end gains?
    Would gains of running pure E85 over a E60 mix be worthwhile?
    Thanks,

  16. #66
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    Since I am selling this product as a working solution for HPFP issues. I feel I need to post some fuel logs just as I would post dyno logs for a turbo kit. Here is a log from our last 91 run making 573 WHP where were maxing out our fuel trims and HPFP was hovering around 1000 PSI after 4000 RPM and here is one of our 670-675WHP area logs on no meth with the trims negative and the HPFP dipping to 1650 for about 4-5 cells and going right back up to 2000 PSI where it should be with the upgraded HPFP installed. Please do not ask me for me for full logs, the logs are 100% in the hands of the tuners and they will post when they are ready, I asked permission to post these.

  17. #67
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    So, if we are running V2/RBs on say e50 and seeing our HPFP sitting north of 2000psi to readline, we are good to hold off on the upgrade for now?
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  18. #68
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    The data looks great so far. Dzenno I presume you're running a higher than factory fuel pressure target at higher RPM?
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  19. #69
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The data looks great so far. Dzenno I presume you're running a higher than factory fuel pressure target at higher RPM?
    Yup. The high pressure side upgrade plain and simple delivers the fuel needed. The HPFP pump still drops off in the midrange below our "requested" pressure but given what's happening with AFRs and short term fuel trims our requested high pressure settings really aren't necessary at this point and can be brought down closer to actual and what the HPFP is comfortable to support fuel pressure wise.
    Click here to enlarge

  20. #70
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Yup. The high pressure side upgrade plain and simple delivers the fuel needed. The HPFP pump still drops off in the midrange below our "requested" pressure but given what's happening with AFRs and short term fuel trims our requested high pressure settings really aren't necessary at this point and can be brought down closer to actual and what the HPFP is comfortable to support fuel pressure wise.
    Good just making sure that was demand driven and not over target. Can't wait to upgrade. Click here to enlarge
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Tony, I implore you, take that kit off and get it into production. I don't want to waste a summer man Click here to enlarge especially if I have to build a motor to hit that 1K WHEEEEL haha
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Tony, I implore you, take that kit off and get it into production. I don't want to waste a summer man Click here to enlarge especially if I have to build a motor to hit that 1K WHEEEEL haha
    Soon as we slap another 50-75 HP around I will be pulling it off. Lets hit the dyno Saturday and finish it up... E85 for the win

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Soon as we slap another 50-75 HP around I will be pulling it off. Lets hit the dyno Saturday and finish it up... E85 for the win
    Click here to enlarge
    PTF PROTuned | RB's | AMS FMIC | AR DP's | HPF Exhaust | CP-E DCI | Apex Arc 8's | 235/275 Star Specs |

    Click here to enlarge


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Soon as we slap another 50-75 HP around I will be pulling it off. Lets hit the dyno Saturday and finish it up... E85 for the win
    I'm looking forward to this.

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    Everyone does even m3 owners Click here to enlarge
    PTF PROTuned | RB's | AMS FMIC | AR DP's | HPF Exhaust | CP-E DCI | Apex Arc 8's | 235/275 Star Specs |

    Click here to enlarge


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