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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    why didn't you like the S65? Specifically.
    Because the torque is very low. At lower RPMs it's laughable. If you put your foot down at 2000RPM you will wait forever to pick up speed. I put the DCT in Sport and ran a short circuit. After a sharp bend the car would barely move from 2500RPM up...it was a mess. Also the engine sound was so faint you could barely hear it. Also it didn't have the usual V8 sound that you turn your head for when a Mercedes AMG passes...

    But the handling was totally different than a regular e92. Sharp as a razor.

  2. #102
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    I drove a MT e90 and noticed the overall weight in the turns. I had to flog the go pedal, but the sound in the upper revs made that fun. I would get terrible mileage if I had one.
    i look forward to the lighter M3 sedan

  3. #103
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    Because the torque is very low. At lower RPMs it's laughable. If you put your foot down at 2000RPM you will wait forever to pick up speed. I put the DCT in Sport and ran a short circuit. After a sharp bend the car would barely move from 2500RPM up...it was a mess. Also the engine sound was so faint you could barely hear it. Also it didn't have the usual V8 sound that you turn your head for when a Mercedes AMG passes...

    But the handling was totally different than a regular e92. Sharp as a razor.
    say whaaaaaaaat!?



  4. #104
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    Because the torque is very low. At lower RPMs it's laughable. If you put your foot down at 2000RPM you will wait forever to pick up speed. I put the DCT in Sport and ran a short circuit. After a sharp bend the car would barely move from 2500RPM up...it was a mess. Also the engine sound was so faint you could barely hear it. Also it didn't have the usual V8 sound that you turn your head for when a Mercedes AMG passes...

    But the handling was totally different than a regular e92. Sharp as a razor.
    Yeah, that's what I figured you would say. An engine like this having ridiculous throttle response (almost no cars come close), and flexibility isn't good because it only has 300 ft-lbs of torque from 2.75k-8k (ish)... I don't think you understand that it's not about the torque of the motor; because the engine can rev to 8400 RPM and still make torque (albeit "not tons of it") is so you can take advantage of gearing. A Corvette Z06 (making about 400 ft-lbs) makes LESS torque at the ground than the M3 does in first gear, and the M3 puts nearly the same to the ground as a C5 Z06 in the rest of the gears. In other words, in a 1st gear race, the M3 would win - after that - the weight difference would come into play, and it would probably walk away.

    Point is, you are going off of "feel" - which isn't really a good indicator of anything. You cannot feel velocity; however, you CAN feel acceleration - but what your body is MOST sensitive to is called "jerk". Jerk is the derivative of acceleration, acceleration is the derivative of velocity. All this means (in general terms) - is that the higher order motions (jerk) are what you "perceive" more... Each time a piston in a cylinder fires and generates a ton of force - this is directly transmitted to you as jerk. In other words, you "feel" like the car is accelerating harder when you have an engine creating more torque than another (generically speaking, assuming cylinder counts are equal)... The car has more jerk than the other car - doesn't mean it's accelerating as fast, it just means it is changing acceleration faster than the other... Not sure if any of this is making sense - but this is where all the nonsense of the M3 vs 335i stock for stock comes in. People love torque, and BMW hears this loud and clear. I love power - or torque to the ground. I can care less what snaps my neck back more - I want to go fast, not impress my passenger with nothing.

    Considering you feel like the S65 was inferior to say the X6M/S63, even though the throttle response is laughable in it - this is likely what makes you feel like an engine is good (torque). The M3 with it's measly 295 torques beats the X6M to 160 km/h - yet you feel the S63 was superior somehow. I don't understand it - and never will, but to each their own.

    I really wonder why more people don't buy diesels...

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by inlineS54B32; 04-12-2013 at 12:06 PM. Reason: added image for tq

  5. #105
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    you can make a custome flap in the inner pipe of the exhaust and voala controllable muffler, when closed no muffler is used just pure flow Click here to enlarge

  6. #106
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    That rear subframe assembly including the diff looks straight out of an E9x lol

  7. #107
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    Because the torque is very low. At lower RPMs it's laughable. If you put your foot down at 2000RPM you will wait forever to pick up speed.
    80-85% of torque available as early as 1800 rpm... never took me forever to pick up speed.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, that's what I figured you would say. An engine like this having ridiculous throttle response (almost no cars come close), and flexibility isn't good because it only has 300 ft-lbs of torque from 2.75k-8k (ish)... I don't think you understand that it's not about the torque of the motor; because the engine can rev to 8400 RPM and still make torque (albeit "not tons of it") is so you can take advantage of gearing. A Corvette Z06 (making about 400 ft-lbs) makes LESS torque at the ground than the M3 does in first gear, and the M3 puts nearly the same to the ground as a C5 Z06 in the rest of the gears. In other words, in a 1st gear race, the M3 would win - after that - the weight difference would come into play, and it would probably walk away.

    Point is, you are going off of "feel" - which isn't really a good indicator of anything. You cannot feel velocity; however, you CAN feel acceleration - but what your body is MOST sensitive to is called "jerk". Jerk is the derivative of acceleration, acceleration is the derivative of velocity. All this means (in general terms) - is that the higher order motions (jerk) are what you "perceive" more... Each time a piston in a cylinder fires and generates a ton of force - this is directly transmitted to you as jerk. In other words, you "feel" like the car is accelerating harder when you have an engine creating more torque than another (generically speaking, assuming cylinder counts are equal)... The car has more jerk than the other car - doesn't mean it's accelerating as fast, it just means it is changing acceleration faster than the other... Not sure if any of this is making sense - but this is where all the nonsense of the M3 vs 335i stock for stock comes in. People love torque, and BMW hears this loud and clear. I love power - or torque to the ground. I can care less what snaps my neck back more - I want to go fast, not impress my passenger with nothing.

    Considering you feel like the S65 was inferior to say the X6M/S63, even though the throttle response is laughable in it - this is likely what makes you feel like an engine is good (torque). The M3 with it's measly 295 torques beats the X6M to 160 km/h - yet you feel the S63 was superior somehow. I don't understand it - and never will, but to each their own.

    I really wonder why more people don't buy diesels...

    Click here to enlarge
    I'm so sick of having to explain this.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  9. #109
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    Ah, if only a polarizing filter were available.

    Nice catch!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    hope they slapped an old cluster on reading a 7k limit when it might go to 7.5?
    If it is the same under square dimensions as the N54 and N55, and we do know it is turbo charged, not much reason to go beyond 7K RPM at all.

    Ask people who drive those engines.
    Last edited by maxnix; 04-27-2013 at 10:04 PM.

  11. #111
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I'm so sick of having to explain this.
    It's because everybody on here thinks the N54, low-RPM punch when you say TQ.
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  12. #112
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I really wonder why more people don't buy diesels...
    With VW recently having announced a 10DCT, that age may soon be upon us. Even the 335d is pretty quick with a 6AT and much more efficient than a 335i.

    Remember, not every event in daily driving is a drag race.

  13. #113
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by maxnix Click here to enlarge
    With VW recently having announced a 10DCT, that age may soon be upon us. Even the 335d is pretty quick with a 6AT and much more efficient than a 335i.

    Remember, not every event in daily driving is a drag race.
    Yeah, I agree. I actually like diesels - for their economy, and they are fun in the city because of the low end grunt. For a true sports car - however, I am not sure a diesel would cut it (future, maybe - not yet)... I would rather have the revs to play with while in the mountains as opposed to constantly shifting. I hear you though - definitely leap years ahead of where they used to be.

    My entire point was around torque though - not trying to say anything negative about diesels... It's very frustrating to hear about the "lack" of torque in the M3. Yeah - at the crank the N54/55 may have more torque, but not at the wheels/ground - and that's what matters. Point was - if all you are going to care about is a dyno reading or a magazine quote in regard to torque - you should just buy a diesel, as not much can compare.

  14. #114
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    It's been said before but I've read these exact complaints about every m3 generation.... "V8? No way!" "The straight six is what defines the m3! BMW is getting lazy and throwing a v8 in there! "

    Seriously it's hilarious.....this next m will be great and everyone on this thread will want one.
    Nah, heading to Porsche. I need my na.


  15. #115
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    Nah, heading to Porsche. I need my na.
    Damn straight.

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

  16. #116
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    any new spy pics? im getting antsy

  17. #117
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    Last I heard the production f80 m3 will debuted this sept with sales at the end of this year, it's right around the corner!
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    ESS 6XX kit

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    any new spy pics? im getting antsy
    Recent article saying the debut is sept 2013 at the frankfurt autoshow : http://www.bmwblog.com/2013/04/18/20...n-nurburgring/
    Click here to enlarge
    ESS 6XX kit

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