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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The S65 wasn't FI from the factory, so the DME was never programmed to protect itself against excessive knock that would be caused from the additional stress of a supercharger & additional +200 WHP (especially if this guy was hammering the car deep into redline on $#@! gas)
    So does the tune disable the knock sensor? Are you saying the DME would think it is knocking even when it isn't because of the extra HP?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    So does the tune disable the knock sensor? Are you saying the DME would think it is knocking even when it isn't because of the extra HP?
    I have no idea if they disable the knock sensors, but the DME will def know when it's knocking except it was never designed to pull of timing on a supercharged car (and you'll never be able to take away the additional stress the supercharger adds once it's bolted-on).

    EVEN if the tune was 100% flawless, you're bolting on a supercharger on a motor that was never designed to be FI & still utilizing the OEM DME with no additional protective measures to compensate for the upgraded setup.
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  3. #78
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The S65 wasn't FI from the factory, so the DME was never programmed to protect itself against excessive knock that would be caused from the additional stress of a supercharger & additional +200 WHP (especially if this guy was hammering the car deep into redline on $#@! gas)
    but the s65 has VERY advanced knock detection and VERY susceptible to IAT's, there should have been so many failsafes and i doubt it was in good running order to begin with. of course, less than even 91 octane is all on the owner, but every person that touched that car shares a portion of the blame

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    I have no idea if they disable the knock sensors, but the DME will def know when it's knocking except it was never designed to pull of timing on a supercharged car (and you'll never be able to take away the additional stress the supercharger adds once it's bolted-on).

    EVEN if the tune was 100% flawless, you're bolting on a supercharger on a motor that was never designed to be FI & still utilizing the OEM DME with no additional protective measures to compensate for the upgraded setup.
    I highly doubt they turn off knock detection. It would be pretty crazy if they did. The ecu is very smart and will pull timing anytime it doesn't like something. When we had a car with a bad o2 the car was redlining with our sc and only making about 375 hp. It does a very good job at saving itself even with the extra load of a sc.

    From what I have gathered from the original owners posts it looks like the car was supposed to be ran on 91 and race gas only. Why would you sell someone a 625 kit that only runs on a race gas mix is beyond me. Especially if you know the guy has to drive it back to his home far away. Couldn't they just use their flash tool to program it for normal fuel?? Unless they jacked up the boost so high with a small pulley that it couldn't be ran on anything less. Which in that case selling the car with a "625" kit is a total lie. The new and old owner are responsible for this mess Not Ess. A Methanol system is a great alternative when running high boost and if the car had it like ours do this problem possibly could of been avoided.
    Last edited by Andrew@activeautowerke; 04-10-2013 at 12:06 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    I highly doubt they turn off knock detection. It would be pretty crazy if they did. The ecu is very smart and will pull timing anytime it doesn't like something. When we had a car with a bad o2 the car was redlining with our sc and only making about 375 hp. It does a very good job at saving itself even with the extra load of a sc.

    From the posts i read from the old owner it looks like the car was supposed to be ran on 91 and race gas only.
    Thanks for clarifying. I assumed the engine would protect itself in this manner.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for clarifying. I assumed the engine would protect itself in this manner.

    With good tuning the car should last quite awhile running low octane. The car will pull timing, run rich and not make much power. Then again the kits I have seen are running 13 afr's at redline normally so...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    I highly doubt they turn off knock detection. It would be pretty crazy if they did. The ecu is very smart and will pull timing anytime it doesn't like something. When we had a car with a bad o2 the car was redlining with our sc and only making about 375 hp. It does a very good job at saving itself even with the extra load of a sc.

    From what I have gathered from the original owners posts it looks like the car was supposed to be ran on 91 and race gas only. Why would you sell someone a 625 kit that only runs on a race gas mix is beyond me. Especially if you know the guy has to drive it back to his home far away. Couldn't they just use their flash tool to program it for normal fuel?? Unless they jacked up the boost so high with a small pulley that it couldn't be ran on anything less. Which in that case selling the car with a "625" kit is a total lie. The new and old owner are responsible for this mess Not Ess. A Methanol system is a great alternative when running high boost and if the car had it like ours do this problem possibly could of been avoided.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    With good tuning the car should last quite awhile running low octane. The car will pull timing, run rich and not make much power. Then again the kits I have seen are running 13 afr's at redline normally so...
    ^^^^There's your answer
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    With good tuning the car should last quite awhile running low octane. The car will pull timing, run rich and not make much power. Then again the kits I have seen are running 13 afr's at redline normally so...
    yup ess doesnt share your optimisem shame they market so well

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
    yup ess doesnt share your optimisem shame they market so well
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Let's go for the obvious. A S65 was meant to be a high speed engine concept w/high compression, a manuf. maximum limit indicate engine torque standardization set, enough thermal management to handle the heat it produces for set power level, mechanical efficiency clearances for such application, mileage/hours wear expectancy, etc. Now, you add more +more torque thru a S/C or turbo, drive it spiritually & keep everything else the same Click here to enlarge ? I see engine fatique/stress coming into play later or sooner. It is expected.
    Last edited by LW@MTG; 04-10-2013 at 07:38 PM.

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    So an ESS VT2-625 kit just set the ESS stock motor WHP record, straight from Roman's mouth. But of course there's no boost on the dyno sheets & the AFR looks wavy as $#@! (like Andrew pointed out, it gets lean real quick after 7800 RPMs)
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  12. #87
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    So an ESS VT2-625 kit just set the ESS stock motor WHP record, straight from Roman's mouth. But of course there's no boost on the dyno sheets & the AFR looks wavy as $#@! (like Andrew pointed out, it gets lean real quick after 7800 RPMs)
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 1SICKM Click here to enlarge
    Nice numbers Jeff! This car also dynoed 370whp stock! You've got a strong motor...
    sure, add that 20-40 oem hp variance, some racefuel, and definitly more than 7 psi in there, oh, and probably done at ICS..600+is very "normal"

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    But the ECU will still pull timing to a degree and you aren't making much boost. I mean it's not going to destroy your motor right away it isn't made of glass.
    Sure. The question to a qualified tuner is how much authority does it have in terms of pulling timing. If it doesn't have enough to accomodate 89, then you are in deep $#@!. Likewise, if it keeps advancing timing, detonating, then pulling, well, you are also scrwed. The knock monitoring on the S65 is the most advanced I've ever heard of. Traditionally, there is a limit to how much timing you can pull out. That may or not be the case with this ECU.

    IMO I don't think 91 octane is the problem here, I really don't.
    Don't see how you can draw that conclusion based on what is out there right now.

    Well that stuff about EAS is up here, nobody is cleaning that up.
    Why I post here : )

    True but did they even so much as send an e-mail or PM? I would simply to be able to reference it later as "hey, I tried."
    Eh - I dunno, I think they did enough personally. I mean, if they really told him.

    Really odd but I would think the only reason he backed off from that would be because he got an offer to do so. What, suddenly, that didn't happen and his mind changed? Why even say it in the first place?
    Possible. No one can trust any of the information on that site. You have now documented how they sweep conflict under the rug to the detriment of the community. All it takes is one time.

    The whole situation is idiotic, from all sides.
    Concur.

  14. #89
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    sure, add that 20-40 oem hp variance, some racefuel, and definitly more than 7 psi in there, oh, and probably done at ICS..600+is very "normal"
    Does he really thing his car makes 20+ whp more than everyones else's stock car. Comments like these are exactly why there is so much misinformation spread throughout the forum. 20Whp is about the same gain as removing all the catalytic converters from the car. We are talking some serious restriction here. S65's are built to such high tolerances they shouldn't vary more than 1-5 hp when built.Click here to enlarge

  15. #90
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Does the tune somehow disable knock detection? If not than if you run crap gas and start to knock it should automatically pull timing correct? Isn't this how most modern engines work?
    It will pull timing to a degree (get the pun?).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    I highly doubt they turn off knock detection. It would be pretty crazy if they did. The ecu is very smart and will pull timing anytime it doesn't like something. When we had a car with a bad o2 the car was redlining with our sc and only making about 375 hp. It does a very good job at saving itself even with the extra load of a sc.
    I've seen it go into limp to protect itself it is pretty damn sophisticated.

    In your opinion would low revs and a few miles of 89 octane, no WOT throttle driving, immediately grenade a motor?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Why would you sell someone a 625 kit that only runs on a race gas mix is beyond me.
    Dyno games.

  18. #93
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    With good tuning the car should last quite awhile running low octane. The car will pull timing, run rich and not make much power. Then again the kits I have seen are running 13 afr's at redline normally so...
    There we go.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by singletrack Click here to enlarge
    Don't see how you can draw that conclusion based on what is out there right now.
    I mean just look at the what the tuners are posting, don't take my word for anything.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    sure, add that 20-40 oem hp variance, some racefuel, and definitly more than 7 psi in there, oh, and probably done at ICS..600+is very "normal"
    I was really confused why a NJ M3 owner went all the way to CT for a dyno, but that explains a lot (high reading, no boost) -- That all the ESS forum muscle use the ICS Dyno & get super high reading cars.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    I was really confused why a NJ M3 owner went all the way to CT for a dyno, but that explains a lot (high reading, no boost) -- That all the ESS forum muscle use the ICS Dyno & get super high reading cars.
    So they get the stock internal record by what like 2 whp? Who cares? I wish Gintani would have just cranked my boost with the T-trim and meth and made 630-650 something and just shut this nonsense up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So they get the stock internal record by what like 2 whp? Who cares? I wish Gintani would have just cranked my boost with the T-trim and meth and made 630-650 something and just shut this nonsense up.
    Not that you'd know, but since I assume you're spending a lot of time with the Gintani crew, do you know if they have sent any kits to the East Coast (tri-state area)? Not that there's anything wrong with it, but ACM is nearby so everytime I see a supercharged M3 it's either ESS, a few AA's + then the VAC VF620 car
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I've seen it go into limp to protect itself it is pretty damn sophisticated.

    In your opinion would low revs and a few miles of 89 octane, no WOT throttle driving, immediately grenade a motor?
    Well if it was our level 2 car it might ping a little but if it's low revs no wot I think it would last without much issues. Now if you get on it yeah the potential to hurt the engine at high rpm is very real.

    Again I have no clue what the tuning looked like but if was running out of fuel like a couple of the cars I have seen recently running correct octane.. Well good bye engine!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Not that you'd know, but since I assume you're spending a lot of time with the Gintani crew, do you know if they have sent any kits to the East Coast (tri-state area)? Not that there's anything wrong with it, but ACM is nearby so everytime I see a supercharged M3 it's either ESS, a few AA's + then the VAC VF620 car
    I know they're getting a dealer going and I think they have a coupe. Once the dealer is up should be more obviously.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I know they're getting a dealer going
    Any idea where? I need hit the lotto & get my ass into a car with 500++++ WHP potential
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