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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    So just to revist and be perfectly clear, on 93 not 91 the ST kit made 22 WHP less and 93 WTQ less then we did.
    This needs more emphasis. With a fatter curve too.

  2. #27
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    2 out of 3 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I don't think anyone is falling for Shiv's BS. Tony has actual results. Noone has seen any info to support Shiv's claims. His days of unsupported claims/hype will soon be over. More than one show in town now Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    This needs more emphasis. With a fatter curve too.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Lol he's not going to reply to my question. Alright

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    4 out of 5 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    It's not anything new and it's a shame that newcomers fall for it. Shiv will now disappear for a week while he installs EGT probes and gathers data and will state he's had it for a year, in a new thread, about "EGT technical discussion."

    Tony should just stay out of it, get his numbers and have a side by side comparison later.

    Edit: My posts requesting data have been deleted and I've received an infraction.
    Last edited by Tzu; 03-31-2013 at 04:26 PM.

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    please refer to my sig.




  6. #31
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    Copy paste from that thread, was bored on my Easter, maybe it will be useful here too?

    I never really post here. I feel you guys are kinda leading everyone here to incorrect conclusions with the MBT vs Timing vs Boost vs EGT stuff imo.


    Granted, Shiv is absolutely right, but there is more to the story than he is going into (as usual imo). I'll try to be brief and simple:


    Ideally you have timing for MBT with an octane that can support it. This will produce the lowest EGT for whatever combination you are running, and the highest thermal efficiency as the expanding gas will be best utilized to push the piston down.


    Decrease timing, and the combustion happens later, thus the gas expansion is less efficient, and EGT's go up.... BUT, this isn't necessarily bad for the engine as lots of the high EGT measured is combustion occurring in the manifold itself. Read- helping spool a turbo (or premature wear I guess).


    Increase timing further from MBT, and the combustion happens earlier. Two things can happen here--- DETONATION, because the increasing pressure while the piston is still traveling up causes other pockets of aircharge to ignite. You'll actually see EGT go DOWN because the piston heads are absorbing lots of this heat (not good). Or, OVERADVANCE, which will not increase power due to a low thermal efficiency (not catching the expanding gas peak pressure when the piston is ready for it), thus will also increase EGT due to a more complete burn outside of the thermal efficiency zone, and straining the engine cooling system more.


    In essence, hitting MBT timing helps maximize thermal efficiency, and lower EGT's. Running less advance generates heat, but much of this is "afterburn" so to speak in the exhaust. Not a huge deal. Running too much advance can cause detonation, lowering EGT but for bad reasons, or overadvance, lowering thermal efficiency and increasing EGT and thermal stress inside the cylinder.


    You can lower the effects of high EGT on the cooling system and reduce octane effects by increasing the engine VE with bigger turbos, better manifolds, headwork, intercoolers, richer AFR's, E85, water injection, etc.


    I've said it before and I'll say it again, a gasoline engine is a heat engine. Nothing more, nothing less. You can choose to generate and deal with this heat in a variety of fashions, and when/where this heat is generated can also be controlled. EGT numbers are NOT the end all/be all, there are other things that should be taken into considerations.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Copy paste from that thread, was bored on my Easter, maybe it will be useful here too?

    I never really post here. I feel you guys are kinda leading everyone here to incorrect conclusions with the MBT vs Timing vs Boost vs EGT stuff imo.


    Granted, Shiv is absolutely right, but there is more to the story than he is going into (as usual imo). I'll try to be brief and simple:


    Ideally you have timing for MBT with an octane that can support it. This will produce the lowest EGT for whatever combination you are running, and the highest thermal efficiency as the expanding gas will be best utilized to push the piston down.


    Decrease timing, and the combustion happens later, thus the gas expansion is less efficient, and EGT's go up.... BUT, this isn't necessarily bad for the engine as lots of the high EGT measured is combustion occurring in the manifold itself. Read- helping spool a turbo (or premature wear I guess).


    Increase timing further from MBT, and the combustion happens earlier. Two things can happen here--- DETONATION, because the increasing pressure while the piston is still traveling up causes other pockets of aircharge to ignite. You'll actually see EGT go DOWN because the piston heads are absorbing lots of this heat (not good). Or, OVERADVANCE, which will not increase power due to a low thermal efficiency (not catching the expanding gas peak pressure when the piston is ready for it), thus will also increase EGT due to a more complete burn outside of the thermal efficiency zone, and straining the engine cooling system more.


    In essence, hitting MBT timing helps maximize thermal efficiency, and lower EGT's. Running less advance generates heat, but much of this is "afterburn" so to speak in the exhaust. Not a huge deal. Running too much advance can cause detonation, lowering EGT but for bad reasons, or overadvance, lowering thermal efficiency and increasing EGT and thermal stress inside the cylinder.


    You can lower the effects of high EGT on the cooling system and reduce octane effects by increasing the engine VE with bigger turbos, better manifolds, headwork, intercoolers, richer AFR's, E85, water injection, etc.


    I've said it before and I'll say it again, a gasoline engine is a heat engine. Nothing more, nothing less. You can choose to generate and deal with this heat in a variety of fashions, and when/where this heat is generated can also be controlled. EGT numbers are NOT the end all/be all, there are other things that should be taken into considerations.
    Said it before and I'll say it again. One of my favorite posters in any thread, always well spoken, technical information without taking any sides. Just unbiased information to anyone who wants to listen

  8. #33
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    Just read that entire thread, 20 minutes of my life i will never get back!
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  9. #34
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    am i missing something, or is shiv not a vendor anymore?
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I liked it better when these debates were over tunes, at least that was relevant to the majority of the viewers in these turbo sections. In the short term, this affects 10 maybe STs and one TT who is on a beta tune running piss gas.
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
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  11. #36
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    If you only look at it from a total EGT perspective and the general rule of thumb that EGT = BAD, then you guys look like idiots.

    But this is the real world and that's not how it works. You could have 2,000 degree EGT's, but if 100% of that hot gas is immediately removed from the cylinder and fresh, cool air is mixed drawn in (really high VE engine) then you are probably fine. One of the issues with high EGT is leftover gases lingering in the combustion chamber, which you guys have partially addressed with a better manifold (it helped more than I thought it would, meaning our head isn't quite as $#@!ty as I thought).

    I mean it's not ideal but it's not going to melt the piston or something. O2 sensors and turbo's may not like it much but nothing engine related as long as the VE is good enough, or the octane, etc etc. Plus, nobody knows the EGT's yet anyway so every post is kinda just fear tactics imo.

    I find that kinda offensive because I don't think you guys are idiots. Shiv isn't an idiot and knows what he is talking about, he just oozes with bias shrouded in "pick and choose" facts that ignore parts of the bigger picture. Maybe he just likes to poke. It kinda drives me crazy sometimes lol. If he didn't understand these things I wouldn't care so much. Glad I have a fan though, if only I could have a pair of GTX fans!!!!! haha. Keep up the good work.

  12. #37
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    Ugh, those $#@!ers love to delete my post over there.
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
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  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    Ugh, those $#@!ers love to delete my post over there.
    Shiv said they don't do that. You can take his word for it.Click here to enlarge
    Kevin
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  14. #39
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    I mean, it was to add a laugh, not like I was doing a think wrong.
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
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  15. #40
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    Lord Voldemort at his finest. Nothing surprising here.
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I find that kinda offensive because I don't think you guys are idiots. Shiv isn't an idiot and knows what he is talking about, he just oozes with bias shrouded in "pick and choose" facts that ignore parts of the bigger picture. Maybe he just likes to poke. It kinda drives me crazy sometimes lol. If he didn't understand these things I wouldn't care so much. Glad I have a fan though, if only I could have a pair of GTX fans!!!!! haha. Keep up the good work.
    That's Voldemort right there...
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    Ugh, those $#@!ers love to delete my post over there.

    Typical spin control induced by Voldemort and executed by E90post c0ck sucking party of mods.
    From all the things I've lost,
    I miss my mind the most!
    Click here to enlarge

  18. #43
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    "I meet Shiv again recently at his house when he helped me with a missing issue. (Remember Shiv it was the day you brought back your Ferret and we went by your moms house in my car)"


    LOL Shiv has a pet ferret.
    Click here to enlarge
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    "I meet Shiv again recently at his house when he helped me with a missing issue. (Remember Shiv it was the day you brought back your Ferret and we went by your moms house in my car)"


    LOL Shiv has a pet ferret.
    haha +rep




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    13 out of 14 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    LOL Shiv has a pet ferret.
    His name is Laguna Seca Blue

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    I wonder if the reason Shiv never went for high numbers on 91 octane is due to his manifold design haveing the o2 sensors pre turbo? I'm sure they're already being subjected to higher egt's than their designed for being installed in the wrong spot and if he were to go for a high boost, low timing map on 91 that he would fry the o2's even faster?

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    Oh dear, i see @VargasTurboTech posts being deleted again!

    Just dont get it over there anymore, deleting other peoples posts because they disagree with the " masses" views over there, just makes them look like a bunch of C****
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  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    I wonder if the reason Shiv never went for high numbers on 91 octane is due to his manifold design haveing the o2 sensors pre turbo? I'm sure they're already being subjected to higher egt's than their designed for being installed in the wrong spot and if he were to go for a high boost, low timing map on 91 that he would fry the o2's even faster?
    Click here to enlarge interesting
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    I wonder if the reason Shiv never went for high numbers on 91 octane is due to his manifold design haveing the o2 sensors pre turbo? I'm sure they're already being subjected to higher egt's than their designed for being installed in the wrong spot and if he were to go for a high boost, low timing map on 91 that he would fry the o2's even faster?
    Glad I'm not the only person who thinks this. Not that I consider it a major drawback, just a necessity due to the design, which happens to be the only viable design for a single turbo atm.

    So I'm almost to double digit posts over there again. Maybe this time I wont get banned lol. (although to be fair, it was more personal with an admin than anything shiv related haha)

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    "I meet Shiv again recently at his house when he helped me with a missing issue. (Remember Shiv it was the day you brought back your Ferret and we went by your moms house in my car)"


    LOL Shiv has a pet ferret.


    Its most definitely Laguna Seca Blue.

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