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  1. #1
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    Rb's vs stockers

    So ive been looking around for what i think is the best/ just what makes the most sense for the money turbo option. I realize the more hp you want the money needed will be exponential and at the moment im really just waiting for a decently priced single manifold to come out as i think that will fit my power goals the best. In the mean time ive been looking at getting rbs or vargas stg2's. I took 2 of Terry's dynos both on e85 one on rbs and one on stockers and overlayed them
    Click here to enlarge

    so they are just about even until 5000rpm where the rbs pull away and make 50 more whp with no meth.

    How much faster does an rb car feel than a stock car? Has any rb car raced a stock turbo car with the same mods and how hard did you pull?
    Turbo lag is the on ramp to the highway which is power.

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    Night and day difference...no comparision honestly. More power thru the entire range. This also depends on other mods to but where stockers fall on there face the RB's keep going.
    JB4 G5, 455 LPFP, HFS-4 meth kit, BMS OCC, VM 6466 ST, RB valve, BMS DCI, 3" AR Dps, Custom OC W/ SS lines, ER FMIC, ER CP W/HKS BOV, M3 control arms, M3 guide rods, M3 upper links, M3 front & rear sway-bars, HPA rear toe arms, Wavetrac LSD, HPF Gen 2 exhaust DEFIV kit, KW clubsport, Delrin solid subframe bushings, stoptech rotors, Rogue Tranny Mounts, 1M bumper, M3 CF hood, MORR VS8.2 rims 245/295

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    I've raced a stock turbo FBO 335 with race gas and beat him. I also raced an RB turbo FBO 335 on race gas and lost by 4 cars. Hell yea it's a big difference LOL.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    I've raced a stock turbo FBO 335 with race gas and beat him. I also raced an RB turbo FBO 335 on race gas and lost by 4 cars. Hell yea it's a big difference LOL.
    it really is....just keeps pulling...I taper down at 17-18psi and peak 20-22 psi. Stockers
    taper down at 12+ and peak at 17-19 and taper a lot faster.
    JB4 G5, 455 LPFP, HFS-4 meth kit, BMS OCC, VM 6466 ST, RB valve, BMS DCI, 3" AR Dps, Custom OC W/ SS lines, ER FMIC, ER CP W/HKS BOV, M3 control arms, M3 guide rods, M3 upper links, M3 front & rear sway-bars, HPA rear toe arms, Wavetrac LSD, HPF Gen 2 exhaust DEFIV kit, KW clubsport, Delrin solid subframe bushings, stoptech rotors, Rogue Tranny Mounts, 1M bumper, M3 CF hood, MORR VS8.2 rims 245/295

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    why don't you have a custom Manifold/setup made if you want a single?
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
    - N54 6AT WR 711whp 637wtq-
    -N54 WR 1/4mile trap: 133.57mph- -

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WDBi Click here to enlarge
    so they are just about even until 5000rpm where the rbs pull away and make 50 more whp with no meth.
    you need a boost log to see actual difference. IIRC, T is not overly aggressive with boost down low to save his trans

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by WDBi Click here to enlarge
    so they are just about even until 5000rpm where the rbs pull away and make 50 more whp with no meth.

    How much faster does an rb car feel than a stock car? Has any rb car raced a stock turbo car with the same mods and how hard did you pull?
    This is actually true. On pump gas only, RBs are better only after 5000RPM. I dynoed my RBs recently and until 5000RPM there is no difference (in fact the RBs have worse low-end torque), using the 18.5psi limit of ATR. You can increase the pressure by 1-1.5psi past the 18.5psi limit and get a bit more power under 5000RPM too, but not by much because pump gas does not allow a lot of extra boost.

    But as you know, once you go past 2nd gear in a race your RPM will not go under 5000, so you have a lot of extra power Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by cstavaru; 03-28-2013 at 10:11 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    This is actually true. On pump gas only, RBs are better only after 5000RPM. I dynoed my RBs recently and until 5000RPM there is no difference (in fact the RBs have worse low-end torque), using the 18.5psi limit of ATR. You can increase the pressure by 1-1.5psi past the 18.5psi limit and get a bit more power under 5000RPM too, but not by much because pump gas does not allow a lot of extra boost.

    But as you know, once you go past 2nd gear in a race your RPM will not go under 5000, so you have a lot of extra power Click here to enlarge
    Unless your name is dzenno and your ported head flows so much air and chokes so bad from the tiny turbines that it makes peak power at like 5000rpms or something silly. Click here to enlarge

    The optimum shift point calculations for his setup were hilarious. I think one gear was like 4200rpms or something?

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    60-130 my best stock was 8.5s, best with RBs 7.3s, similar road, octane, etc.
    Burger Motorsports
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    60-130 my best stock was 8.5s, best with RBs 7.3s, similar road, octane, etc.
    That is night and day.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please click here for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Yes it's quite an upgrade for exterior stock looking turbos. Click here to enlarge Avg MPH at Famoso went from 123 to 129
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes it's quite an upgrade for exterior stock looking turbos. Click here to enlarge Avg MPH at Famoso went from 123 to 129

    Click here to enlarge
    PTF PROTuned | RB's | AMS FMIC | AR DP's | HPF Exhaust | CP-E DCI | Apex Arc 8's | 235/275 Star Specs |

    Click here to enlarge


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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    60-130 my best stock was 8.5s, best with RBs 7.3s, similar road, octane, etc.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes it's quite an upgrade for exterior stock looking turbos. Click here to enlarge Avg MPH at Famoso went from 123 to 129
    That says it all.

    Let's see how those numbers change with your stage3 turbosClick here to enlarge
    SOLD --'07 E90 335i, PTF COBB E50, HFS4, ER CP, ETS 7", AA DP, Vishnu Exhaust, DCI, ACT, Nitto Nt555

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    +1 hoping for 135mph+ when its all sorted out. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    60-130 my best stock was 8.5s, best with RBs 7.3s, similar road, octane, etc.
    About 15% increase in average g force, nice.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    +1 hoping for 135mph+ when its all sorted out. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    +1 hoping for 135mph+ when its all sorted out. Click here to enlarge
    If I hit 130mph on 67Rs on pumpgas, I'll be ecstatic. If I can do more, then I'll do more; but I'm not exactly interested in being the FIRST one to blow their engine due to too much power Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    If I hit 130mph on 67Rs on pumpgas, I'll be ecstatic. If I can do more, then I'll do more; but I'm not exactly interested in being the FIRST one to blow their engine due to too much power Click here to enlarge
    Don't worry you wont be the first. I plan to "explore the limits"...Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Don't worry you wont be the first. I plan to "explore the limits"...Click here to enlarge
    lol. That's awesome. That question will finally be answered Click here to enlarge


    I'd also like to see stock N54 internals sitting next to say 2JZ internals (didn't someone have one stripped and just laying around?); just to see the size differences and to guesstimate where those outer limits may be Click here to enlarge Many people assume the 2JZ had forged internals, but I know for a fact that its pistons were not.

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    being how this is an RB vs stock topic. does any one think or know if the rbs can be pushed more then 520 whp. before working on the head. with that said lets say using just e85 and meth.

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    based on no tech knowledge and off of the results of tuners that have pushed the limits on the RBs, no. Vargas V3 and Vishnu Single are currently the only options to push north of 575 whp.
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
    2011 - 335is e92 - Cobb PTF E40/Rob Beck/AR/Helix (458 rwtq and 479 rwhp) - Retired
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    2008 - 335i e92 - Cobb/AR/Helix/OSS (384 rwtq and 356 rwhp) - Retired
    2003 and 2005 330i/ci zhp - Stock - Retired

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    based on no tech knowledge and off of the results of tuners that have pushed the limits on the RBs, no. Vargas V3 and Vishnu Single are currently the only options to push north of 575 whp.
    that sucks i was really hopping for them to be pushed maybe another 20whp

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Antonio91 Click here to enlarge
    that sucks i was really hopping for them to be pushed maybe another 20whp
    520 wheel is alot considering how small a TD04 is.....

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    To get RBs up to 520rw requires a lot of timing. I'd say they are 500rw turbos that we happen to over clock to 520rw+ sometimes.
    Burger Motorsports
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    RB's are a lot of fun especially if your end goal is around 500whp.

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