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  1. #51
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    We're really defending plastic over metal when the true goal is not performance?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're really defending plastic over metal when the true goal is not performance?
    No way of judging that until we see some performance figures i guess. You never know it may be a good thing.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're really defending plastic over metal when the true goal is not performance?
    It's not about defending plastic over metal. Guys you are looking at it the wrong way. I believe once BMW partners with the right company to produce their less expensive turbos (plastic material or such), they will not be run with exhaust gas. Since we are moving to a world of better emissions, hybrids, electric, etc.., these new turbochargers will be powered by electric. Could be electric stored in battery or these turbos can be driven by an electric motor. This will eliminate the heat built up due to using plastic which has a much lower thermal conductivity than most precious metals.

    Now we all know bigger turbos gives us more power. We all know smaller turbo spools up faster than bigger turbos. We all know that some electric cars have over 2000 lbs of torque. So think about it, why not develop a less expensive material, less weight(again a marketing term but true), less emission and develop these turbos to be run by electric rather than hot exhaust gas to get these turbos to spool up faster than any small turbos, twin scrolls, etc that's run by exhaust gas (heat).
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  4. #54
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    Look at the bright side of things: in the future we will be able to cast our own turbos to fit the engine bay space Click here to enlarge Or maybe we can use off-the-shelf, cheap 3D printing machines to print turbos Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    We're really defending plastic over metal when the true goal is not performance?
    A polymer in this case can be better than metal from both performance and cost savings perspectives.

    The polymer is webbed to increase strength, this is pressure tested.

    The polymer is specially formulated to withstand the temperatures it sees.

    Aside from some sort of voodoo argument that 'metal is better' I don't really see what there is to be afraid of.
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  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    A polymer in this case can be better than metal from both performance and cost savings perspectives.

    The polymer is webbed to increase strength, this is pressure tested.

    The polymer is specially formulated to withstand the temperatures it sees.

    Aside from some sort of voodoo argument that 'metal is better' I don't really see what there is to be afraid of.
    Unless the polymer is formulated to withstand only stock temperatures. Which makes modding the car harder. I guess it depends on your perspective and what BMW chooses to do with it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Unless the polymer is formulated to withstand only stock temperatures. Which makes modding the car harder. I guess it depends on your perspective and what BMW chooses to do with it.
    The polymer is formulated to withstand extreme sustained temperatures.
    You dont get to 'dial it in' so that they fail to nuke chip tuners.

    By the way, this 'announcement' is really old. It's from 2009. I'm sure they have new magic $#@! now.

    Here's some technical literature from them, it shows that indeed the plastic compressor housing performed identically to the metal one with the exception that IATs were consistently lower on the plastic side:

    http://www.atzonline.com/index.php;d...loc=3/id=10148


    They're even thinking of making plastic compressor wheels, these would have identical strength characteristics and lower weight, meaning a quicker spool and a cooler charge.

    Yay science.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    By the way, this 'announcement' is really old. It's from 2009. I'm sure they have new magic $#@! now.
    First I ever heard of it in my defense...

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    They're even thinking of making plastic compressor wheels, these would have identical strength characteristics and lower weight, meaning a quicker spool and a cooler charge.
    Compressor wheel too? Come on.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sparky68 Click here to enlarge
    1, yes the smilie sort of suggested it had a slight comedy element to it
    2, so how much more money do you have to spend to stop the gearbox going pop?
    3, lighten up Click here to enlarge
    Well, it was a simple question with no hidden agenda, you know him or you don't. It's easy to read about someone and pass judgement trying to be popular with the majority and a lot of people do just that. Although Shiv hasn't done a good job of picking his battles which hasn't made him the most popular person throughout the forums, he has pushed the platform to new levels and we all know a little competition is good for development. It's a Win-Win for everyone. And yes, I know Shiv. I've also had the pleasure of meeting Terry.

    With regard to throwing money at your gearbox, we are all in the same boat. It doesn't matter what tune or what turbo upgrade you go with, eventually you're going to run into the Pay-4-Play monster. So I'm not sure if you're insinuating that if you go with a ST that you also need to pay big money to upgrade your transmission in reality if you go with any upgraded turbo with any tune you'll eventually have to pay big money to upgrade your AT transmission or replace your DMF with a SMF on your MT cars. DCT guys are just SOL. Click here to enlarge

    Don't worry, I actually got a laugh out of this also. It would be interesting and comical to see FFTEC using a big plastic turbo to make 700 whp... So my apologies if you thought I was being a prick. It was just a long day... It's also still early today so I haven't had enough coffee to break threw my dry sense of humor... Click here to enlarge

  11. #61
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    One step closer to big kid Power Wheels.

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    $#@! turbos I'll take a .50 cal sniper rifle made out of this $#@! so I can sling it over my shoulder and not even feel it LOL.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wedge1967 Click here to enlarge
    replace your DMF with a SMF on your MT cars.
    Little birdie told me the Stage3 test car is running a DMF. Just sayin.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    $#@! turbos I'll take a .50 cal sniper rifle made out of this $#@! so I can sling it over my shoulder and not even feel it LOL.
    Exactly, people said the same $#@! when glock started putting out poly guns. There's no reason to hate on advances in technology.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AltecBX Click here to enlarge
    Pure silver and cooper has better thermal conductivity than gold.
    Not to get in a pissing contest, but conductivity of a medium and convection of a medium are different. I was not speaking of their ability as conductors of heat/energy. I was referring to their abilities of convection of heat/energy because heat & energy moves through the medium relatively slow and even, which is good because it is predictable and has a low chance of warping. That is why you see hot sides of turbos made from iron or sometimes stainless steel. Copper, silver & even aluminum are good at conduction. However, they move heat/energy rapidly. Which is why aluminum is great for making intercoolers because it can be heated a cooled relatively fast, & why my grandmas' corn bread cooks so well in a iron skillet.

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    Plastic blocks next? Exaggerating as it seems many are accepting some of the potential pluses with the plastic housing:

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Little birdie told me the Stage3 test car is running a DMF. Just sayin.
    haha, well little birdie will find that once they hit the limitations of the DMF they will get a cyl 6 misfire at high RPM. Again, the limitation isn't turbo or tune related. Just a limitation of a DMF.

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    Skimmed the thread.

    1) I want to 3D print a turbo. Click here to enlarge
    2) DMF is an issue but disabling misfire detection masks it.
    3) Shiv is running a plastic turbo? lol
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  19. #69
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    I have a funny feeling about this!! The 335d IC is made out of plastic polymer or whatever u want it to call it. it did its job fairly on my car, yes it only wieghed 9 lbs or so compared to the WAGNER IC which 40 lbs but to see the perspectives better the WAGNER IC had better flow and less heat transmitted to the turbos, Im not implying this so called FUTURISTIC turbo mught not be able to handle it but lets be realistic plastic as in any other shape or form albeit polymer, uretahne , carbon fiber or whatever will eventually warp as well as a any metal items but I beleive faster than metal eventually I might be wrong oh well but lets see what happens

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Plastic blocks next? Exaggerating as it seems many are accepting some of the potential pluses with the plastic housing:

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...rd351Wsb-1.jpg
    http://blog.caranddriver.com/is-this...-engine-block/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plastic_automotive_engine

    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/25/au...anted=all&_r=0

    Not as far fetched as you might believe... Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    I have a funny feeling about this!! The 335d IC is made out of plastic polymer or whatever u want it to call it. it did its job fairly on my car, yes it only wieghed 9 lbs or so compared to the WAGNER IC which 40 lbs but to see the perspectives better the WAGNER IC had better flow and less heat transmitted to the turbos, Im not implying this so called FUTURISTIC turbo mught not be able to handle it but lets be realistic plastic as in any other shape or form albeit polymer, uretahne , carbon fiber or whatever will eventually warp as well as a any metal items but I beleive faster than metal eventually I might be wrong oh well but lets see what happens
    Many composite / poly materials have higher strength and wear characteristics when compared with metals...
    You're talking about your intercooler?? The end tanks on the stock one are polymers, however the heat exchanger is aluminum just like the wagner, you want (like Morkin mentions) a high heat transmitter for IC applications....
    The additional weight of the wagner is due to the denser construction and partially due to the fact that the end tanks aren't plastic.
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    uniter i know nothing in the WAGNER IC is plastic but what im trying to say is that ANY plastic will eventually deteriorrte faster than metal when it comes to heat issue, some plastic as you state are stronger than metal I believe that but as far as holding i have my reservations specially on engines components otherwise most of cars outhere would be using it

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Wedge1967 Click here to enlarge
    haha, well little birdie will find that once they hit the limitations of the DMF they will get a cyl 6 misfire at high RPM. Again, the limitation isn't turbo or tune related. Just a limitation of a DMF.
    Yeah that same 'limit' that every Shiv MT kit was having yet the Vargas kit didn't. Click here to enlarge Not sure if they had misfire detection turned off or not, but if not it's pretty much a case-in-point demonstration that there may be more to it than just a DMF; and if it is turned its a case-in-point that it's not such a big deal.

    I guess I should explain what I'm thinking better next time and not expect someone to figure out what I'm thinking Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    uniter i know nothing in the WAGNER IC is plastic but what im trying to say is that ANY plastic will eventually deteriorrte faster than metal when it comes to heat issue, some plastic as you state are stronger than metal I believe that but as far as holding i have my reservations specially on engines components otherwise most of cars outhere would be using it
    Agreed. I've seen plenty of IC's with plastic endtanks corrode over time. Hopefully its made of a better material.

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    well...if you can make guns out of plastic, why not turbo's? Someone needs to get one and upload a CAD file for 3D printing!

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