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  1. #26
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    I would use a oetiker clamp or a worm gear. I have new had good luck with the "fuel injection" clamps. They don't cut the hose but don't seem to tighten well.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    I opened it all up and the hose to the Venturi came off. The problem is that I used the correct 1/4" submersible line, but it doesn't stay on very snug (the nipple on the Venturi is a little less than 1/2" long, barely enough for a good grip (and this presumably pushed itself off under pressure over the months).


    Any suggestions? Is there some fuel-safe epoxy that I can use to elongate the nipple or fuse it to the hose?
    I used a normal worm clamp there and it was a pretty snug fit. That clamp looks a big wide so it may not be getting enough clamping force on the venturi side of the "ridge". Before reinstalling it tug on it and you should not be able to work it out if properly attached.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 03-25-2013 at 10:33 PM.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    Sarcasm? The DIY looks pretty straight forward.
    I thought it was pretty easy, but I've heard of a few people who have had shops do it only to have to go back. Enrita said his shop has tried 4 times now. Crazy! Another issue is we need to post the exact part number for the line that needs to be used in the DIY. I've heard of 2-3 customers who had their line split, apparently due to it not being submersible. It's a solid DIY but maybe improving the photos and little details will make it easier for people.

    The inline DIY is much easier though, you don't need to take apart the bucket or remove any fuel line fittings. It just drops in. And I think that will provide enough fuel for RB turbo E85 only cars. So at this point I'd suggest that to most. Just make sure you use good submersible fuel line.

    Also I think a few people have jumped on fuel pump upgrades that don't really need them. I would not bother unless your low fuel pressure is dropping below 50psi in logs.
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  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I used a normal worm clamp there and it was a pretty snug fit. That clamp looks a big wide so it may not be getting enough clamping force on the venturi side of the "ridge".
    I looked back at my pics I had from during my installation and I too used a worm clamp there also, it fit a bit better there too. As the fuel inj type clamp, the screw that tightens it down stuck out further than I wanted to and made the pump stick up a bit further too.

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    So I snipped the old end of the 1/4 hose and re-attached as it was before.

    Results:
    • There is no longer super lean condition
    • I can run a full gear with reasonable AFR
    • Tip-in lean condition exists
    • AFR trims are still maxed


    Attached are a few logs. The first is cruising at 3psi with maxed trims and the rest or 3rd and 2-3 gear pulls.

    The venturi definitely seems to have come loose at the track, but I can't explain why it's still short on fuel compared to the track failure.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I used a normal worm clamp there and it was a pretty snug fit. That clamp looks a big wide so it may not be getting enough clamping force on the venturi side of the "ridge". Before reinstalling it tug on it and you should not be able to work it out if properly attached.
    I might take it back out and switch clamps. I used the proper clamp for 1/4 hose. The good news is that I've done this so many times, and I had it out, fixed, and back in in an hour Click here to enlarge
    Attached Images Attached Images    
    Change is constant

  6. #31
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    I really hate reading procede logs.

    Anyway assuming the black line is your fuel pressure (dropping to ~2v?) then it seems within spec. A bit low for a E85 + meth car but should not be an issue. Trims are maxed out, so must be an "open loop" type setting. Or a lack of meth flow.

    **EDIT** noticed Byte4 is FP Out. So, open loop is pretty maxed out already. Meth flow issue? Any faults stored like Lambda faults?
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 03-25-2013 at 10:50 PM.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge

    Anyway assuming the black line is your fuel pressure (dropping to ~2v?) then it seems within spec. A bit low for a E85 + meth car but should not be an issue. Trims are maxed out, so must be an "open loop" type setting. Or a lack of meth flow.
    This is a non-meth car. Again, trims were MAX 16% Friday on all runs before the 'failure.' Now thy peg at 34%.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I really hate reading procede logs.
    Click here to enlarge Once you have a user-tunable version I'll switch Click here to enlarge

    They are color-coded and read from top to bottom. Bottom third starts with fuel trim bank 1.
    Thanks for the help T!
    Change is constant

  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I really hate reading procede logs.
    It really shouldn't be you doing Shiv's work for him anyway.

  9. #34
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    Shops are usually just parts installers. Some mechanics are also enthusiasts, and some have just been around long enough to know about custom jobs. But whenever you want custom work done, it's best to find a shop or a mechanic who knows how to do more than follow an alldata printout. This is easier said than done in my experience from working at a shop that embraced custom jobs, most mechanics we hired weren't truly up to it.

  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It really shouldn't be you doing Shiv's work for him anyway.
    This isn't anyone's work. My tune has worked flawlessly. This is about a bunch of guys helping me out with an equipment failure that I bought from neither vendor (free DIY thanks to Terry).I've received great support from both vendors (even on this very topic), so let's save the vendor wars for another day.
    Change is constant

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    This is a non-meth car. Again, trims were MAX 16% Friday on all runs before the 'failure.' Now thy peg at 34%.


    Click here to enlarge Once you have a user-tunable version I'll switch Click here to enlarge

    They are color-coded and read from top to bottom. Bottom third starts with fuel trim bank 1.
    Thanks for the help T!
    I just dislike the tight scaling and that only the scale for one line in a chart is labeled. But I can just assume what they are by looking at them. Doesn't seem to be anything fuel pressure related. With such a low output fuel pressure I'm surprised trims are so high. Do you have variables that represents DME boost set point and TMAP output to DME?

    PS. The JB4 has always been user tunable. Click here to enlarge But to run higher than factory advance you do need our flash tune as well.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 03-25-2013 at 11:49 PM.
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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    This isn't anyone's work. My tune has worked flawlessly. This is about a bunch of guys helping me out with an equipment failure that I bought from neither vendor (free DIY thanks to Terry).I've received great support from both vendors (even on this very topic), so let's save the vendor wars for another day.
    Not a vendor war just pointing out a competitor is helping you. I don't see Shiv working on BMS logs.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It really shouldn't be you doing Shiv's work for him anyway.
    He has BMS in his signature so don't mind spending a moment or two to see if its anything obvious. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I thought it was pretty easy, but I've heard of a few people who have had shops do it only to have to go back. Enrita said his shop has tried 4 times now. Crazy! Another issue is we need to post the exact part number for the line that needs to be used in the DIY. I've heard of 2-3 customers who had their line split, apparently due to it not being submersible. It's a solid DIY but maybe improving the photos and little details will make it easier for people.

    The inline DIY is much easier though, you don't need to take apart the bucket or remove any fuel line fittings. It just drops in. And I think that will provide enough fuel for RB turbo E85 only cars. So at this point I'd suggest that to most. Just make sure you use good submersible fuel line.

    Also I think a few people have jumped on fuel pump upgrades that don't really need them. I would not bother unless your low fuel pressure is dropping below 50psi in logs.
    Thanks! I am right at 50 psi on both E85 and pump so I do not think the E85 is the issue but the pump is just getting tired.
    Click here to enlarge
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    LOL and now i am stranded 300 miles from home leaking fuel under the tank pass side. Car does not start. They fitted steal lines but probably damaged the one from the tank...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I thought it was pretty easy, but I've heard of a few people who have had shops do it only to have to go back. Enrita said his shop has tried 4 times now. Crazy! Another issue is we need to post the exact part number for the line that needs to be used in the DIY. I've heard of 2-3 customers who had their line split, apparently due to it not being submersible. It's a solid DIY but maybe improving the photos and little details will make it easier for people.

    The inline DIY is much easier though, you don't need to take apart the bucket or remove any fuel line fittings. It just drops in. And I think that will provide enough fuel for RB turbo E85 only cars. So at this point I'd suggest that to most. Just make sure you use good submersible fuel line.

    Also I think a few people have jumped on fuel pump upgrades that don't really need them. I would not bother unless your low fuel pressure is dropping below 50psi in logs.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    LOL and now i am stranded 300 miles from home leaking fuel under the tank pass side. Car does not start. They fitted steal lines but probably damaged the one from the tank...
    Well this is pretty $#@!ty...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    He has BMS in his signature so don't mind spending a moment or two to see if its anything obvious. Click here to enlarge
    Cant fault Terry on his support, has spent ages trying to help me tracking down my boost leak when it 1st occurred.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I really hate reading procede logs.
    +1 -- Regardless for what tune, IMO it's easiest to read logs in Excel & then graph them and actually view the specific values for the channels you're logging.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Shops are usually just parts installers. Some mechanics are also enthusiasts, and some have just been around long enough to know about custom jobs. But whenever you want custom work done, it's best to find a shop or a mechanic who knows how to do more than follow an alldata printout. This is easier said than done in my experience from working at a shop that embraced custom jobs, most mechanics we hired weren't truly up to it.
    Amen -- Tried giving you the thumbs up but I need to spread some love 1st. Enrita, really sorry the shop you're using has completely bricked on doing this install. Hopefully you can find somebody more qualified (and capable) to do this job.
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  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    +1 -- Regardless for what tune, IMO it's easiest to read logs in Excel & then graph them and actually view the specific values for the channels you're logging.
    I look at 50+ logs per day. Personally I just want to see certain data elements shown in the same scaling zoomed in on the heavy throttle areas all in one chart with one click. Like the attached. To many this might look like nonsense but I can look at this format and in 3 seconds get a good read on what is going on. Firmware date and certain settings are shown in the header and other settings I can check in the CSV if needed. Every data element available is recorded in every log so I can just click on the "add" button if I want to see IAT, or DMEBT, etc, added to the chart. If I had to support 15,000+ customers using the procede or cobb logging systems I'd probably shoot myself in the head. Click here to enlarge
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    If I had to support 15,000+ customers using the procede or cobb logging systems I'd probably shoot myself in the head. Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
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    Terry, when you ran setup #5 (Walbro no Venturi), did you leave the Venturi in place, physically blocking the hole in the bottom of the bucket, or did you remove the Venturi completely (including the red rubber diaphram, allowing fuel to enter through the bottom of the bucket?

    Thanks
    Change is constant

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    That test was with no venturi at all. Pump going right to regulator input line. Actually drove around like that for a week or two too just for kicks.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    That test was with no venturi at all. Pump going right to regulator input line. Actually drove around like that for a week or two too just for kicks.
    Understood. I understand you used a straight T with pump going to output.

    You removed the Venturi and the red diaphram from the bucket as well?


    I'm thinking of doing that tonight and if that doesn't fix my trims, the pump is certainly bad/damaged.
    Change is constant

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    Don't follow your logic. High fuel pressure looks OK in the log. How does it compare to high fuel pressure in previous logs? Maybe I'm looking at the wrong line in your chart. If its much lower than before at the same boost/E85 levels then low pressure could still be an issue. If not then likely isn't. It's a shame you can't log low fuel pressure directly as that is the one direct variable that corresponds to pump performance.

    Trims generally have nothing to do with pump performance. As high pressure drops the DME knows to increase IPW to match. If anything it normally "improves" trims.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 03-26-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
    Understood. I understand you used a straight T with pump going to output.

    You removed the Venturi and the red diaphram from the bucket as well?


    I'm thinking of doing that tonight and if that doesn't fix my trims, the pump is certainly bad/damaged.
    Could you post some pics of your setup? It would be easier to follow and see what's going on.

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