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  1. #1
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    Question Failure at Track - Can no longer go WOT

    Setup: N54, FBO, walbro e85 LPFP, procede, procede flash, e66, 70F.


    Long story short:
    • Car's been running great and consistent
    • recent dyno (435whp/455wtq) looked good
    • Logs JUST before track were good
    • Made 3 passes down 1/4 mile
    • First pass went ok, but fuel bank trim 2's got wacky at the top of 4th (trapped 115 vs normal 118-119)
    • Second pass, got some sort of fuel cut
    • Third pass the car went into limp just after the lights and then shut off and wouldn't start


    Following the third pass I reset the adaptations, ECU, and PROcede but it still didnt start initially. Finally, it started (after several cranks) and idled fine.

    I drove it home and now it drives fine but when I go WOT, it cuts-out. Looking at the logs, under WOT it goes crazy lean, maxes fuel trims and then goes into limp or just some sort of fuel cut. The only code I get is 10716 or "Cylinder injection switch off", which I've seen in the past when you run sustained maxed fuel trims.

    I'm kind of at a loss as to what to check/replace at this point. When tuning, I've beat on the car for hours, doing pull after pull at WOT without any issues at all. This makes me think something failure (pump, injector, something).

    I've attached some logs
    • First 2 are clean logs preceding the track
    • Next 3 the three passes


    ANY ideas, thoughts are appreciated.

    Thanks,

    -TG
    Attached Images Attached Images      
    Change is constant

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    Attached are logs:
    • First two show in-gear failures (fuel cut or limp)
    • Next shows cruising
    • Last shows cruising at 3psi and maxed fuel trims
    Attached Images Attached Images     
    Change is constant

  3. #3
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    You've got an issue on your LPFP side. Given you've changed it something is off there. Hose came off slightly, maybe your venturi is off and not filling bucket...if you go below 1/4 tank and go WOT with the venturi not hooked up you'll get the cylinder injection shut off..no worries, just have a look at your LPFP again
    Click here to enlarge

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    Check your LPFP. Run a Gas map and go WOT on 93 and re-log.
    335xi Sedan 6AT || Weather(45-60°F)
    -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Agressive maps)
    †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 (93 Octane) || 0-60 in 4.0sec
    †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) || 0-60 in 3.9sec
    AR Design Catless DP || BMS DCI + OCC || ETS 5 FMIC || Alpina B3 Trans Flash || 235/265 19" Michelin PSS

  5. #5
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    +1. I bet you split a low pressure hose. Some brands of fuel injection line are not submersible and thus become unreliable. Can you log low fuel pressure with the procede? It should be around 70psi.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  6. #6
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    I wouldn't go wot again on any octane. Its just a mechanical issue with the lpfp he's got to address
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge


    check your lpfp.. had similar issues a while back... hhaha memories.. blew my transmission after i got this fixed LOL
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    +1. I bet you split a low pressure hose. Some brands of fuel injection line are not submersible and thus become unreliable. Can you log low fuel pressure with the procede? It should be around 70psi.
    I used the Gates submersible hose (I actually bought it after I installed it and re-did it just to be sure). I had 3/4 tank of gas when I went to the track, FWIW.

    I put in on map 1 (stock) and it does the same thing (limp and fuel cut).

    The fuel pressure is shown in red in the lowest chart (red is HPFP).

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    http://www.e90post.com/forums/attach...1&d=1359233560


    check your lpfp.. has similar issues a while back... hhaha memories.. blew my transmission after i got this fixed LOL
    Yeah, I think you all might be right. I'll take it all apart tomorrow.


    I appreciate the quick replies guys.
    Change is constant

  9. #9
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    Something associated with the Walbro $#@! the bed -- Most likely a bad line feed since the pump is performing fine under non-WOT conditions.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  10. #10
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    I see. I thought it might of been the amount of ethanol not getting to the top fast enough.
    Ghost report back and let us know the problem when you check. What Walbro model are you using?
    335xi Sedan 6AT || Weather(45-60°F)
    -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Agressive maps)
    †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 (93 Octane) || 0-60 in 4.0sec
    †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) || 0-60 in 3.9sec
    AR Design Catless DP || BMS DCI + OCC || ETS 5 FMIC || Alpina B3 Trans Flash || 235/265 19" Michelin PSS

  11. #11
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AltecBX Click here to enlarge
    I see. I thought it might of been the amount of ethanol not getting to the top fast enough.
    You can tell by looking at the 1st & last logs, that the Fuel Trims are basically maxed out (1st log shows 30/32 and the last log shows 34% for both Fuel Trim values). Assuming OP has the Walbro 450 LPH, this shouldn't be happening. I've been running my straight E85 map for ~1 week now, logged yesterday & my trims never exceeded 24% (leaving a nice 10% safety cushion). Last thing you wanna do with E85 is max out your trims & aggressively run the motor at a damaging lean AFR.


    BTW -- I don't know if it's just me, but I find reading logs in CSV/Excel format significantly easier than looking at graph with 8 billion different colored lines.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  12. #12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    You can tell by looking at the 1st & last logs, that the Fuel Trims are basically maxed out (1st log shows 30/32 and the last log shows 34% for both Fuel Trim values). Assuming OP has the Walbro 450 LPH, this shouldn't be happening. I've been running my straight E85 map for ~1 week now, logged yesterday & my trims never exceeded 24% (leaving a nice 10% safety cushion). Last thing you wanna do with E85 is max out your trims & aggressively run the motor at a damaging lean AFR.
    Yea i see that. On that last graph its at 34% at 2900 RPM.
    335xi Sedan 6AT || Weather(45-60°F)
    -PROcede Rev. 2.5 ~ v5 (3/17 maps) / JB4 (8/21 maps) / COBB (Stg2+FMIC LT Agressive maps)
    †Procede Map2(UT 45 - IGN 40) Aggression Target 2.0 (93 Octane) || 0-60 in 4.0sec
    †Cobb E30 LT (35% Ethanol/65% 93 Octane) || 0-60 in 3.9sec
    AR Design Catless DP || BMS DCI + OCC || ETS 5 FMIC || Alpina B3 Trans Flash || 235/265 19" Michelin PSS

  13. #13
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    probably the fuel line is broken. i am struggling as well with the Walbro DIY. told the shop now to use submersible lines . I get now only 50 psi pressure and cannot run E85 map , fuel is cutting.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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  14. #14
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    Ghost, do you have the Procede Flex kit or just walbro with flash? Which maps are you running? the 50/50 ones?
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    I am not running the flex kit and am running my own custom maps (based off of shiv's e85 maps).

    You can see dyno info here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...54-E85-results

    My car has been rock solid prior to this.
    Change is constant

  16. #16
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    Definitely on the LP side for sure. If nothing wrong with the LPFP make sure you check your LP sensor because if its a faulty sensor it would Also exhibit these same symptoms. You would also see a 29F3 (low pressure sensorcode) along with 29DC code for injector cut off.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I plan to take out the bucket tonight and hope to find the culprit.

    i installed the LP a couple months ago and recently re-did it, replacing the lines with the expensive submersible lines roughly a month ago. I even bought the e85-safe T coupler online.

    Hey, I thinly my log setup is easy to read Click here to enlarge Fueling info on the bottom (trims, pressures, and boost), with timing on its own. You can see how things change with respect to each other.

    Im on my ipad but can post the actual csv logs when I get home.

    Here is a log from my dyno a couple weeks ago.
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    Change is constant

  18. #18
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    I have the pump and am ready to do the DIY but this has got me nervous. Anyone with experience want to give me a hand?
    Click here to enlarge
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  19. #19
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    well took my shop 4 attempts... now i have steel pro fuel lines ... go brake those. full tank is though little over 3/4 , probably the arm cannot go up all the way.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    I have the pump and am ready to do the DIY but this has got me nervous. Anyone with experience want to give me a hand?
    Have a shop who does aftermarket/performance work do the install. Undercover had no problem doing mine, so look for shops like that (hopefully some1 with some BMW experience too)
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Have a shop who does aftermarket/performance work do the install. Undercover had no problem doing mine, so look for shops like that (hopefully some1 with some BMW experience too)
    I had the same problem before. I replaced the fuel level sensor which fixed it (I somehow damaged it).
    Change is constant

  22. #22
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    The DIY definitely requires more craftsmanship than the average shop seems to be able to provide. It's a bit surprising! Well option B is the inline DIY which we've had running on Jon's car for a few thousand miles without issue. Or if you want to pay $400 for an install kit for your $200 pump FFTEC will always take your money. Beats paying labor to have a shop misinstall the pump 4 times.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    I opened it all up and the hose to the Venturi came off. The problem is that I used the correct 1/4" submersible line, but it doesn't stay on very snug (the nipple on the Venturi is a little less than 1/2" long, barely enough for a good grip (and this presumably pushed itself off under pressure over the months).


    Any suggestions? Is there some fuel-safe epoxy that I can use to elongate the nipple or fuse it to the hose?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The DIY definitely requires more craftsmanship than the average shop seems to be able to provide. It's a bit surprising! Well option B is the inline DIY which we've had running on Jon's car for a few thousand miles without issue. Or if you want to pay $400 for an install kit for your $200 pump FFTEC will always take your money. Beats paying labor to have a shop misinstall the pump 4 times.
    Sarcasm? The DIY looks pretty straight forward.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
    Sarcasm? The DIY looks pretty straight forward.
    Yes, I agree to an extent, but after doing it myself the other day, I still moved the pump around multiple times till I got it to sit as low as I possibly could so that the pump itself was low and the initial hose coming out of the pump was not bent pinching the line by the top of the bucket that gets pressed down into the tank a bit.

    ^This was part of the install I didnt really like at all, now I am concerned about the the venturi valve mentioned above too.



    I have not tested mine yet, waiting for the weather to clear up. Hope it holds up Click here to enlarge

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