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  1. #201
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    @nafoo which turbos you going with? I'm thinking GTX 2863r or 2867r

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    You guys have no idea how nice it is to see discussions about what non-hybrid turbos to go with on this platform Click here to enlarge been a long time and a dream come true...size them right for your "goals"..next we just need to open up the HPFP and then finally have a good enough reason to build motors for more power with more fuel from the DI injectors and the fuel tank!
    Agreed. Or if the AIC idea works well, that'd be cool too in the mean time.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jzeee037 Click here to enlarge
    @nafoo which turbos you going with? I'm thinking GTX 2863r or 2867r
    I'm trying to decide :p

    Just found this here:

    FullBlown
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    We have tested the GTX2863r vs the GTX2867r and GT2871r. Spool wise there isn't enough gain from the GTX2863 vs the GTX2867 to make it worth going with the smaller compressor wheel. All three turbo's run the same turbine wheel and that is going to dictate most of your spool characteristics on a small turbo like this.
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    nafoo, is that graph right? I seems like the 63R is running more boost and the 60R is pointless. Does that motor have a headflow problem?

    It also does illustrate how much more advanced the N54 is vs an old motor like that 3kgt motor. Same displacement, remarkably different powerbands.
    No idea. Just posting things I find that may help someone make a decision.
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  5. #205
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I'm trying to decide :p

    Just found this here:

    FullBlown
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    We have tested the GTX2863r vs the GTX2867r and GT2871r. Spool wise there isn't enough gain from the GTX2863 vs the GTX2867 to make it worth going with the smaller compressor wheel. All three turbo's run the same turbine wheel and that is going to dictate most of your spool characteristics on a small turbo like this.
    Aww snap. That's FullBlown saying that too. Definitely one of the experts in the field (they were/are still big during my S2000 days). Need a dyno showing 63R and 67R differences.

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    Old 300zx stomping grounds:
    "Comparing this dyno graph to the GTX2860 car Greg dynoed a while ago, there is no reason to use the GTX2860. Granted there are a number of variables, but I would like to see more cars with these turbos to get more accurate numbers. Comparing the GTX 2860 vs. GTX 2867, they both have similar spool-up (Power Curve) yet the 2867 yields about 80-90 more HP with pump gas. BUT, when Greg used Q-16 the GTX2860 peaked at 594 which is basically what the GTX2867 did with pump fuel."

    http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300z...s-GTX2867.html

    Nafoo, that image you linked is a GT28RS, not a GTX2860R. I didn't know that Click here to enlarge Good comparison though.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Old 300zx stomping grounds:
    "Comparing this dyno graph to the GTX2860 car Greg dynoed a while ago, there is no reason to use the GTX2860. Granted there are a number of variables, but I would like to see more cars with these turbos to get more accurate numbers. Comparing the GTX 2860 vs. GTX 2867, they both have similar spool-up (Power Curve) yet the 2867 yields about 80-90 more HP with pump gas. BUT, when Greg used Q-16 the GTX2860 peaked at 594 which is basically what the GTX2867 did with pump fuel."

    http://www.twinturbo.net/nissan/300z...s-GTX2867.html

    Nafoo, that image you linked is a GT28RS, not a GTX2860R. I didn't know that Click here to enlarge Good comparison though.
    Yeah, I found that for people wanting to see the difference $1000 gets you :p
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    Consider that question answered lol. Identical spoolup, way more power.

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    I think I've been convinced. Just need a little more data. Saw an overlay of the 67R vs the 71R. It was very similar to the 63R vs the 28RS

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    I think I've been convinced. Just need a little more data. Saw an overlay of the 67R vs the 71R. It was very similar to the 63R vs the 28RS
    Can you elaborate about your conclusions.

    As a road course junkie, I'm far more concerned about usable power and spool-up, than with peak power.

    Once my 1M is out of warranty, I'll give strong consideration to the smaller turbos, including the disco potato (GT28RS).

    Thanks.

    Neil

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MDORPHN Click here to enlarge
    Can you elaborate about your conclusions.

    As a road course junkie, I'm far more concerned about usable power and spool-up, than with peak power.

    Once my 1M is out of warranty, I'll give strong consideration to the smaller turbos, including the disco potato (GT28RS).

    Thanks.

    Neil
    Here's the one for the 67R vs 71R. the 63R vs 2860RS is posted above
    Click here to enlarge

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    As far as my conclusions go, I'm finding that the difference between the 60R, 63R, and 67R is very minute regarding spoolup speed. I suspect the transient response will differ a bit more, but the spool rate doesn't appear to. The differences in power between them is quite immense. I was already sold on the 63R, but if I can make 50hp-ish more for the same $$$ without sacrificing spoolup; I'd go for the extra power.

    It's possible that we're looking at very poor-flowing heads (in the examples -- there's an old 300zx and I've seen some on 3000GTs) or something where the boost level and compressor effiency makes a bigger impact and the spoolrate is capped because the head flows so badly (i'm just thinking out loud here).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    As far as my conclusions go, I'm finding that the difference between the 60R, 63R, and 67R is very minute regarding spoolup speed. I suspect the transient response will differ a bit more, but the spool rate doesn't appear to. The differences in power between them is quite immense. I was already sold on the 63R, but if I can make 50hp-ish more for the same $$$ without sacrificing spoolup; I'd go for the extra power.

    It's possible that we're looking at very poor-flowing heads (in the examples -- there's an old 300zx and I've seen some on 3000GTs) or something where the boost level and compressor effiency makes a bigger impact and the spoolrate is capped because the head flows so badly (i'm just thinking out loud here).
    I want to see the Stage 3 dyno with RPM instead of MPH. I can only guesstimate that the GTX2863 hit full boost at about 95-100mph, which is about 3500 rpm?

    Stock = 2200 rpm and RBs = 2900 rpm?
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    I'm very interested in any further information on spool times/lag. I can swing for the kits, but I'm only trying to make about 550hp at the crank, keep the stock driving style when I'm not in it, and I don't want to have to pop for a new AT or axles 48 hours after I do the swap.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    I want to see the Stage 3 dyno with RPM instead of MPH. I can only guesstimate that the GTX2863 hit full boost at about 95-100mph, which is about 3500 rpm?

    Stock = 2200 rpm and RBs = 2900 rpm?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by El Duce Click here to enlarge
    I'm very interested in any further information on spool times/lag. I can swing for the kits, but I'm only trying to make about 550hp at the crank, keep the stock driving style when I'm not in it, and I don't want to have to pop for a new AT or axles 48 hours after I do the swap.
    Considering the amount of labor and minimal spool-rate differences, you can just dial down the boost. If anything, you can taper it some to redline to maintain an extra-flat torque band. Later on, when you get bored and want more power, you've got the headroom for it. (This is my plan anyway)

  17. #217
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    Looking at my last dyno on E30, I made about 375 tq at 3153 rpm. The GTX2863 makes that much power at 3750 rpm.

    Does that mean it's roughly 600 more rpm spool lag?
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    Possibly. The best way to judge actual lag is watching the torque-band shift. Because most people equate 'lag' to the delay they see max boost and that's not always right, compressor efficiencies play a big part in what say 10psi of boost actually means at a given rpm.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    I wonder if she would be mad if i cancelled our honeymoon in St Lucia and ordered these instead? Click here to enlarge
    dude - i'm having the exact same issue- if it weren't for my upcoming honeymoon in St Lucia I'd be #1 on the list.
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    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sered Click here to enlarge
    Check page 2 or 3 in the dyno announcement on this forum. He posted one with an RPM axis. And if you're comparing results, make sure you compare comparable fuels too. A lot of FBO cars I find are running E85.
    Thanks for posting the dyno on RPM axis. 91oct stock turbo dynos are rare LOL. Luckily ETS has a nice set of them at different mods on 91 octane only. The tune was the famous autotune V5 that was famous for detuning the cars LOL. I guess the old tune is representative enough for FBO MT stock turbo car though. It did 270whp vs the 210 whp of 63r at the 3500RPM, so it looks like that the stock turbos still have more power at 3500 on the contrary what you said. I might have misunderstood what you meant?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for posting the dyno on RPM axis. 91oct stock turbo dynos are rare LOL. Luckily ETS has a nice set of them at different mods on 91 octane only. The tune was the famous autotune V5 that was famous for detuning the cars LOL. I guess the old tune is representative enough for FBO MT stock turbo car though. It did 270whp vs the 210 whp of 63r at the 3500RPM, so it looks like that the stock turbos still have more power at 3500 on the contrary what you said. I might have misunderstood what you meant?
    I looked at a different graph and several others commenting the same numbers. Can you post the one you found?

    As an aside. If the graph you found is correct, then the ~500rpm spool difference sounds spot-on. If you creep up to 3750, you see it hitting closer to 270whp.
    Last edited by Sered; 03-20-2013 at 06:27 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    What's the reasoning behind going with GTX2860R instead of the GTX2863R? The turbine side is the same afaik on these two and the compressor exducer is 3mm bigger on the 63R..

    Given the same size turbine, I'm actually debating about stepping up to a GTX2867R..hmmm Click here to enlarge
    For most 63 and 67 doesn't make a difference with stock engine. If I were you, I'd go for 67 as there is really no downside. The spool is defined by the turbine, which is the same for both.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Anyone from Las Vegas getting this ?? I hope so, so I can go for a ride!! I Miss my 335i.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    For most 63 and 67 doesn't make a difference with stock engine. If I were you, I'd go for 67 as there is really no downside. The spool is defined by the turbine, which is the same for both.
    That is along the lines I'm thinking as well..still need to do some number crunching..

    One thing to keep in mind is this dyno you guys are looking at doesn't have some of the spool changes we've tested on the street which help spool...those will be incorporated with the next dyno session when we go down to California
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    That is along the lines I'm thinking as well..still need to do some number crunching..

    One thing to keep in mind is this dyno you guys are looking at doesn't have some of the spool changes we've tested on the street which help spool...those will be incorporated with the next dyno session when we go down to California
    I think all of us know it can only get better from here, and where we are here is already pretty good! Click here to enlarge

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