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Thread: BMW Releases New Fuel Injector

              
   
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    Yes, always mixing that up
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    I'm new to BB, but not cars or the other forums. Thanks for the welcome - I really like it here so far just by lurking!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Edogg218 Click here to enlarge
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    Okay, now that I've heard about Click here to enlarge

    I'm new to BB, but not cars or the other forums. Thanks for the welcome - I really like it here so far just by lurking!
    Welcome.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by The Ghost Click here to enlarge
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    Do you mean valve cover gaskets? A HG will not show up on your plugs, as the oil (or coolant) will get burned by combustion.
    Yeah. Thought that and to correct this morning as I drifted off to sleep

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    My cold start long cranks seem to be getting worse with E85. I went back to 93 octane this morning and it fired right up without any hiccups. Has anyone experienced the long cranks going away with the newest injectors?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    My cold start long cranks seem to be getting worse with E85. I went back to 93 octane this morning and it fired right up without any hiccups. Has anyone experienced the long cranks going away with the newest injectors?
    I got my dealer problems resolved 2 weeks ago and got a new pump and injectors under warranty, still long cranks with e85. could a leaky VC gasket cause start up issues? also i was thinking i might need to walnut blast my intake valves if that could also cause long cranks?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
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    I got my dealer problems resolved 2 weeks ago and got a new pump and injectors under warranty, still long cranks with e85. could a leaky VC gasket cause start up issues? also i was thinking i might need to walnut blast my intake valves if that could also cause long cranks?
    I just did both of those and neither helped crank issues. Not that I expected them to.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
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    still long cranks with e85.
    By Long Cranks, do you mean Cold Start problems?? If so, it's a known problem associated with E85 that we aren't going to be able to overcome. The various flashes can compensate for the increased fueling once the car has been started, but to cold start the car requires even more (Ex: ProEFI can add up to 400% additional fuel to avoid cold start problems when there is a high ethanol concentration).
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    By Long Cranks, do you mean Cold Start problems?? If so, it's a known problem associated with E85 that we aren't going to be able to overcome. The various flashes can compensate for the increased fueling once the car has been started, but to cold start the car requires even more (Ex: ProEFI can add up to 400% additional fuel to avoid cold start problems when there is a high ethanol concentration).
    its cold starts mainly but I occasionally get really hard starts trembling car misfiring sputtering until she idles out then its normal. I'm doing plugs next have about 23,000 on them. Coils have 10,000.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
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    its cold starts mainly but I occasionally get really hard starts trembling car misfiring sputtering until she idles out then its normal. I'm doing plugs next have about 23,000 on them. Coils have 10,000.
    Exact same symptoms here. It's pretty annoying but I've learned to live with it.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
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    its cold starts mainly but I occasionally get really hard starts trembling car misfiring sputtering until she idles out then its normal. I'm doing plugs next have about 23,000 on them. Coils have 10,000.
    Then it's just starting problem with E85... Nothing you can really do about it. Plugs def won't hurt though since you're modded & 25k is the normal service interval
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    Exact same symptoms here. It's pretty annoying but I've learned to live with it.
    lol the sacrifices I have made for this car if it drives ill call it normal...
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    I had cold start problems back in March (?) when I had some E85 in the tank. Usually once the car kicked over, I'd just lightly modulate the gas between 1k-1.5k RPMs until it ran/idled normally. Hopefully now that it's been 60+ I won't be having to worry about that.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    I had cold start problems back in March (?) when I had some E85 in the tank. Usually once the car kicked over, I'd just lightly modulate the gas between 1k-1.5k RPMs until it ran/idled normally. Hopefully now that it's been 60+ I won't be having to worry about that.
    I'm in Florida running PTF E45 and the temperature has nothing to do with whether or not the car starts rough or not. I am even getting some rough cold starts on 93 octane every once in a while too but not nearly as bad as with E85 in the tank.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JStang Click here to enlarge
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    I am even getting some rough cold starts on 93 octane every once in a while too but not nearly as bad as with E85 in the tank.
    Interesting..... No fault codes or anything?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
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    Interesting..... No fault codes or anything?
    Not a single code. It just really struggles to fire up.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
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    Ok folks,

    I am sure some of you have already seen this on shivpost, but I just wanted to share this here for those who may have missed this.

    BMW has recently released an updated injector for our cars. Here are the details:

    Latest: 13538616079
    Previous: 13537585261

    From what I am gathering, there is a TSA which states that the two injector parts are INCOMPATIBLE with one another! This means that if you want to get the new part number, you will need to get 6 of them as you can't mix and match.




    This may/may not prove to be what we need to run pure E85 without the risk of damaging the injectors.

    FIY, about three weeks ago, I was able to order a 261 injector from Tischer. They still have them in stock. I'd snatch one or two and stock them up as the new injectors are $200 EACH and you'll need 6 to run them.

    BMW most probably have stopped supplying 261 injectors to the dealers.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
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    Good question! If I was to make a guess, and this is a guess, the knock detection sensitivity is different.
    i doubt it.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    If that were the case i would assume that the DME would REQUIRE an updated ROM to accurately interpret the new signal... If the coding process is exactly the same i have a feeling that they can be interchanged.
    Exactly.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
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    The DME is a marvel of engineering. But it's not a wizard, so I doubt the injectors are detecting pre-detonation.

    On the other hand, the DME is so advanced it can monitor the voltage potential across the gap of the spark plug during combustion, which means it can tell precisely when combustion begins or began, meaning the DME could potentially know about pre-ignition before the knock sensors hear it. Click here to enlarge
    this is only on a S85 and S65 with ionic knock detection, N54 does not use that.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by crazylegs Click here to enlarge
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    didnt undercover say that the injectors were not monitoring the knock?
    correct

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
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    Is it possible this new injector is a cure for the DI and carbon buildup issues?
    nope! Can't fix that with injectors

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
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    Yes, but INPA shows you per cylinder knock adaptations...
    yes, off of the knock sensors and knowing individual cylinder locations and where they should be on the crank signal.... But not from the plugs/injectors/ coils
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    Back to the injectors listening for knock - it is possible, thought, right? The knock sensors are reactive in nature. It's a 'seismic mass' that generates a voltage into a coil of fine wire based on vibrations. Maybe signal filtering in the DME is good enough for detecting impending knock or preignition that may get out of hand?

    But the injectors are a piezo crystal that works by changing its dimensions when a current is introduced. Conversely, piezo crystals also generate a voltage based on physical strain. Same thing when you strike a "click" type butane lighter.

    So is it possible that the tip of the injector can send a voltage back to the DME if it can see cylinder pressures increasing too early in the compression stroke and determine that preigntion is happening too aggressively? You want some preigntion, just not so much that it forces cylinder pressures up while the piston is still BTDC.

    The S85 V10 DME uses the ionic detection module which is separate from the DME internals. The DME tells the module that it wants to fire the spark, and the module then detects knock and fires the spark. I guess they couldn't package it all in one V10 box where they can now?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JamesM3M5 Click here to enlarge
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    The S85 V10 DME uses the ionic detection module which is separate from the DME internals. The DME tells the module that it wants to fire the spark, and the module then detects knock and fires the spark. I guess they couldn't package it all in one V10 box where they can now?
    Good post. This is what I wanted to bring up. I don't think the direct injected cars using the same ionic detection system though.
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    No. They. Don't. For. The. Third. Time. Lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alex@ABRhouston Click here to enlarge
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    No. They. Don't. For. The. Third. Time. Lol
    Well it sunk in Click here to enlarge I think...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3
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    Update:

    I had another injector konk out on me and I ordered 3 of the 079 injectors from TischerBMW. To my surprise, I received 3 of the 261 injectors which are the older ones. The difference: they are stamped 261-11 which means integration level 11.

    After talking to Jason from Tischer, he confirmed that those are indeed the newest injectors with the revised internals that have the thermal oil protection needed.

    For the benefit of the community, I will try to replace just one and mix them in the same bank. I want to see what will happen.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
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    For the benefit of the community, I will try to replace just one and mix them in the same bank. I want to see what will happen.
    And for the benefit of the community I repped you for this.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Twinturbom3
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    Some good reading. .
    Thanks 4 D info

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
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    Update:

    I had another injector konk out on me and I ordered 3 of the 079 injectors from TischerBMW. To my surprise, I received 3 of the 261 injectors which are the older ones. The difference: they are stamped 261-11 which means integration level 11.

    After talking to Jason from Tischer, he confirmed that those are indeed the newest injectors with the revised internals that have the thermal oil protection needed.

    For the benefit of the community, I will try to replace just one and mix them in the same bank. I want to see what will happen.

    Vasil

    The 079 are 261-11 index

    They changed the part number so you wouldnt have one labled 261 that was a 261-(lower then 11) on the shelf with 261-11 injectors.

    Think about the guy getting 6 261 injectors and having to open them all up and see what index they are... waste of time.

    Every 079 is a 261-11

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