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  1. #151
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    Agreed
    PTF PROTuned | RB's | AMS FMIC | AR DP's | HPF Exhaust | CP-E DCI | Apex Arc 8's | 235/275 Star Specs |

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  2. #152
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    will the stage 2's on meth reliably make 475 whp? 430-440 whp on pump? key word: reliably? if so, then these sound really good...
    I'm currently making 420 WHP on the stock turbos, 18 psi midrange on 93 octane. Running straight E85, I'm making 460 WHP with the same boost curve (with more aggressive timing). The Stage 2s should be hitting 420 WHP easily on pump, prob getting them closer to 500 WHP with high octane & some aggressive (but safe) tuning.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    Do RBs hit 425 on pump? That certainly would be nice but didnt know if thats even been done yet
    Look above^^. If you're not in the 450 WHP with RBs, you're not tuning them right. Quite a few people are closing in on 500 WHP with their RBs
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  3. #153
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    I made 386awhp on a mustang dyno with stage 1's on pump 93. (a completely stock XI would make around 230-240awhp on this dyno). That's around 420-430awhp on a "typical" dynojet. That being said... those stage 1 turbos were being pushed hard.

    With the stage 2's I fully expect to easily make 420-430whp on pump 93
    335xi (sold)
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  4. #154
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    I agree with all of this. With these wheel upgrades. 450 easy is just a tune away and it should be reliable there, 500+ is also just some fuel and a tune away BUT. My concern and I can assume Robs as well is, people who think they can run 500+ on a daily basis working the snot out of these things then wondering why they didn't last.

  5. #155
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I agree with all of this. With these wheel upgrades. 450 easy is just a tune away and it should be reliable there, 500+ is also just some fuel and a tune away BUT. My concern and I can assume Robs as well is, people who think they can run 500+ on a daily basis working the snot out of these things then wondering why they didn't last.

    All of this talk about 500hp turbos not lasting just makes me want to skip to the smaller Stage 3s for the sake of reliability. I know there's some debate about whether or not the "siren sound" from stock turbos is benign, but all I know is that it wasn't there before I started tuning.

  6. #156
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by El Duce Click here to enlarge
    All of this talk about 500hp turbos not lasting just makes me want to skip to the smaller Stage 3s for the sake of reliability. I know there's some debate about whether or not the "siren sound" from stock turbos is benign, but all I know is that it wasn't there before I started tuning.
    LOL good idea... no one says I got 500whp and gonna beat the $#@! out of the car in that form every day ...

    Read the post above you, lol...

    Also I know all about needing the right tune , trust me when I say that... I simply just dont know anything about pump gas numbers because I pay no mind to any thread that speaks of dyno on pump gas any longer because A) most dyno charts are useless pieces of information B) i have no intentions of ever going all out using just pump gas nor do I really care what "power" I make using pump because if/when I am using 93 it's strictly to drive like a normal human being, where ill log accordingly and see that it's safe... I am not ever going to go after any pump gas record because to me it seems assanine with stock trim turbos and fuel system....

    I will run e50 at 14-15 lbs as a daily config most likely.... Ramp up additve on map3 when needed or another race-ish map that Ill work with terry on. That will be used on those certain Sundays and track / race days.... Where Ill push these fukers to their limits hopefully with some good luck ...

    If you want to DD 500whp stage 3 is only way to do it "safely" .... that or buy a new z06
    Last edited by ChuckD05; 03-20-2013 at 02:50 PM.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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  7. #157
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    Look forward to JP's results and thank you for getting everyhting done so quickly Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    the pictures are from two different angles/perspectives which can change the perception drastically...
    Interesting. Could someone kindly measure both diameters so then we would know.

  9. #159
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    LOL good idea... no one says I got 500whp and gonna beat the $#@! out of the car in that form every day ...

    Read the post above you, lol...

    Also I know all about needing the right tune , trust me when I say that... I simply just dont know anything about pump gas numbers because I pay no mind to any thread that speaks of dyno on pump gas any longer because A) most dyno charts are useless pieces of information B) i have no intentions of ever going all out using just pump gas nor do I really care what "power" I make using pump because if/when I am using 93 it's strictly to drive like a normal human being, where ill log accordingly and see that it's safe... I am not ever going to go after any pump gas record because to me it seems assanine with stock trim turbos and fuel system....

    I will run e50 at 14-15 lbs as a daily config most likely.... Ramp up additve on map3 when needed or another race-ish map that Ill work with terry on. That will be used on those certain Sundays and track / race days.... Where Ill push these fukers to their limits hopefully with some good luck ...

    If you want to DD 500whp stage 3 is only way to do it "safely" .... that or buy a new z06
    Yeah, I'm making 417rwhp in my current DD, but as I said, who knows how long until the turbos grenade themselves . . . I'm not running a ton a boost and I'm using meth to get those numbers just so I don't end up on a flatbed.

  10. #160
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    I had them order new oil lines, it looks like one of them was bent. New one should be in tomorrow. I SHOULD be able to get my car tomorrow evening. Before this 'delay' i was expecting to get it tomorrow morning. So it's not that big of a deal

    fingers crossed
    335xi (sold)
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  11. #161
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    That's not that bad.
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  12. #162
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    I had them order new oil lines, it looks like one of them was bent. New one should be in tomorrow. I SHOULD be able to get my car tomorrow evening. Before this 'delay' i was expecting to get it tomorrow morning. So it's not that big of a deal

    fingers crossed
    I would be like a kid on Christmas Eve if it was me!
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  13. #163
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    I had them order new oil lines, it looks like one of them was bent. New one should be in tomorrow. I SHOULD be able to get my car tomorrow evening. Before this 'delay' i was expecting to get it tomorrow morning. So it's not that big of a deal

    fingers crossed
    Hope it works out.
    And I will be looking closely, xDrive and Stage2 seems like a perfect match if everything holds up.
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  14. #164
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by cstavaru Click here to enlarge
    The turbine wheels certainly do seem to be significantly smaller than the RBs:http://img546.imageshack.us/img546/2647/img97941.jpgThe Vargas turbine wheel has 11 fins, while the RB turbine wheel has 12 fins.
    wow the one on the right looks huge, way way bigger in comparison to the left!i thought that larger turbine wheel would be more conducive to flow and spool, a smaller one (if the VTT2 *truly* is smaller), maybe wouldn't flow as well?either way, like everyone's saying, dyno's will reveal all!

  15. #165
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    wow the one on the right looks huge, way way bigger in comparison to the left!i thought that larger turbine wheel would be more conducive to flow and spool, a smaller one (if the VTT2 *truly* is smaller), maybe wouldn't flow as well?either way, like everyone's saying, dyno's will reveal all!
    That's why I was interested in the diameter measurement. The smaller turbine means higher air speed, and it will choke sooner when reaching the limit Mach 1.

  16. #166
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    wow the one on the right looks huge, way way bigger in comparison to the left!i thought that larger turbine wheel would be more conducive to flow and spool, a smaller one (if the VTT2 *truly* is smaller), maybe wouldn't flow as well?either way, like everyone's saying, dyno's will reveal all!
    The turbine wheel is everything. A larger wheel allows more flow, less engine backpressure and spins at lower RPMs keeping the turbo in the efficiency zone. That's why I never seen Rob Beck advising people to not push his turbos to the max Click here to enlarge

  17. #167
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    I'm currently making 420 WHP on the stock turbos, 18 psi midrange on 93 octane. Running straight E85, I'm making 460 WHP with the same boost curve (with more aggressive timing).
    OT, but i would love to see you back those numbers up on a dyno other than Brentunings...
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  18. #168
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Interesting. Could someone kindly measure both diameters so then we would know.
    Vargas I certainly hope you do not always try to bamboozle your audience. You calling or referring to this turbine as a TD04 is simply false advertising. The wheel is not part of the TD04 family and it’s smaller than even the smallest available TD04 option in every way possible. Additionally it is not custom nor is it costly, as I have one on order myself.

    I can understand the desire to try to keep data proprietary but that would certainly not spawn future competition which we all should welcome. RB released this technical data as there was certainty no one could beat the price while offering the same service- bottom line.

    For those looking for the truth the Vargas turbine is a TF035HL turbine which is sized in between the original TD03L and RB TD04L turbine and matched to compressors as follows:

    RB: TD04L- well matched to 13G thru 16T compressors
    Inducer 1.850”/Exducer 1.620”/Tip 0.320”
    Vargas: TF035HL- well matched to 10T thru 14G compressors
    Inducer 1.700”/Exducer 1.484”/Tip 0.272”
    OEM: TD03L- well matched to 7T to 10T compressors
    Inducer 1.550”/Exducer 1.365”/Tip 0.260”

    The plus side to using the Vargas turbine wheel is that it can drop right into the original TD03 centersection while working with all its smaller matching internals for low cost and effort. The down side is that the wheel is not the best match for bigger compressors such as the 15T, and is not much bigger than the original wheel. The small tip means a small diffuser which means much more back pressure which is not something you'd want to have.

    All of the other Stage 2 offerings (RB, TD2, ASR) come with new larger extensively adapted centersections and turbine housings which is required for larger turbine wheel usage. This process requires much more R&D, production, and material cost. Vargas chose to scale back turbine sizing to keep production costs low in a plight to be competitive and there is nothing wrong with that, but the time has finally come to clear what so long has been misleading technical data in the marketing.

  19. #169
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Vargas I certainly hope you do not always try to bamboozle your audience. You calling or referring to this turbine as a TD04 is simply false advertising. The wheel is not part of the TD04 family and it’s smaller than even the smallest available TD04 option in every way possible. Additionally it is not custom nor is it costly, as I have one on order myself.

    I can understand the desire to try to keep data proprietary but that would certainly not spawn future competition which we all should welcome. RB released this technical data as there was certainty no one could beat the price while offering the same service- bottom line.

    For those looking for the truth the Vargas turbine is a TF035HL turbine which is sized in between the original TD03L and RB TD04L turbine and matched to compressors as follows:

    RB: TD04L- well matched to 13G thru 16T compressors
    Inducer 1.850”/Exducer 1.620”/Tip 0.320”
    Vargas: TF035HL- well matched to 10T thru 14G compressors
    Inducer 1.700”/Exducer 1.484”/Tip 0.272”
    OEM: TD03L- well matched to 7T to 10T compressors
    Inducer 1.550”/Exducer 1.365”/Tip 0.260”

    The plus side to using the Vargas turbine wheel is that it can drop right into the original TD03 centersection while working with all its smaller matching internals for low cost and effort. The down side is that the wheel is not the best match for bigger compressors such as the 15T, and is not much bigger than the original wheel. The small tip means a small diffuser which means much more back pressure which is not something you'd want to have.

    All of the other Stage 2 offerings (RB, TD2, ASR) come with new larger extensively adapted centersections and turbine housings which is required for larger turbine wheel usage. This process requires much more R&D, production, and material cost. Vargas chose to scale back turbine sizing to keep production costs low in a plight to be competitive and there is nothing wrong with that, but the time has finally come to clear what so long has been misleading technical data in the marketing.
    So you're saying that the post where he is calling it a TD04 turbine is a lie.




  20. #170
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    I don't see any reason for Rob to lie.. he just sold 20+ sets even with Vargas coming out. just saying. Click here to enlarge
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  21. #171
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    So you're saying that the post where he is calling it a TD04 turbine is a lie.
    That would be correct
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  22. #172
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ak335i Click here to enlarge
    I don't see any reason for Rob to lie.. he just sold 20+ sets even with Vargas coming out. just saying. Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge That's only the ones you know about Click here to enlarge
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  23. #173
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Black Sheep Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge That's only the ones you know about Click here to enlarge
    lol exactly. Click here to enlarge
    - Proven Power Tampa built 6466 ST -
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  24. #174
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Additionally it is not custom nor is it costly, as I have one on order myself.
    I suppose this means that you have a "Stage 1+" option coming, with this turbine wheel and a matching compressor ? Click here to enlarge

  25. #175
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
    OT, but i would love to see you back those numbers up on a dyno other than Brentunings...
    Stock Baseline (Blue) vs. Bren 93 Octane PROtune (Red) vs. Bren E85 PROtune (Green)
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