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  1. #376
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    They are, however install will begin in the AM. Unfortunately, i have to work tomorrow afternoon/night so install wont be finished until sunday or monday.
    Now that you have them in your kitchen, can you help Tony and everyone out and take a pic of you measuring the wheel diameter so that there is no angle and that everyone of us can read the true diameter of the turbine wheel from the pic straight and clear. This bickering needs to end. Both of the guys believe 100% they are right, but obviously only one of them is right. The one who is wrong, should apologize and we could forget the whole matter and go on.

    Both have clearly stated the diameter of the wheel. It is either TD04 diameter as Tony says, or fullback TF035HL diameter as Rob claims. Everyone else wants to know. Personally it will be very interesting to see how much the fullback design will help to compensate the smaller diameter. But in order to draw any conclusions about the benefits of the fullback design, we need to get the dyno figures of stg 2, which we will have soon, and the difference in the wheel diameter. So, please, measure them for the benefit of turbo design understanding and cleaning the air.

    The diameter of the turbine wheel doesn't define the value of Tony's stg 2. The power stg 2 puts down is what matters. I don't get why some people are discussing about RB turbos in this thread, since this is not about RBs vs Vargas. This is about Vargas stg 2, which is a whole package rather than one component of it. Some people are just blindly bashing a product or a person in this thread because they just want to have a fight. Please stop fighting - especially about something that can be measured, agreed on and then forgot. Thank you.

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    Tony's right there are some dense people around. What defines a TD04 anyway? Is it physical size or is it flow characteristics?

    And by that metric, if the housing is limiting flow to a level below what a true TD04 can flow, then is that big TD04 truly a TD04, or is it a TF035 with extra weight?

    For one thing, measuring the visual part is worthless. If you want to measure it you need to break the turbo down. Unless you know what you're doing, please don't do this. Actually for some of you, please do this.

    The argument is, if you are breathing through a straw, you simply need to match the turbine to the flow characteristics of that straw. If a TD04 can utilize 80% of the flow through the straw, then your TD04 is more like a TF035 anyway. Or, conversely, the TF035 is exactly like the TD04. But more efficient at what it does.

    Tony says the part is based on the TF035, but modified custom. So, if you have a custom turbo component that flows exactly like a TD04 in all situations relevant to this manifold, then don't you have in fact a TD04? Or does the TD04 have something else magical about it like some letters and numbers? And an extra fin that may or may not be worthwhile? This is a custom part, and until somebody proves otherwise he can name it based on the design style (TF035) or flow characteristics (TD04), whichever he fancies, since it's his custom part.

    If you don't believe this to be in fact true, the burden of evidence is on YOU. Maybe us americans are spoiled because if you call somebody a liar, you better have proof to back it up. No offense rob, but it was a major mistake on your part to say this without having these in your hands. And Tony, despite the word choice, was 100% within his rights to be pissed off. I kinda like his passion about things, makes him a great person for a project like this.

    /endrant

  3. #378
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Now that you have them in your kitchen, can you help Tony and everyone out and take a pic of you measuring the wheel diameter so that there is no angle and that everyone of us can read the true diameter of the turbine wheel from the pic straight and clear. This bickering needs to end. Both of the guys believe 100% they are right, but obviously only one of them is right. The one who is wrong, should apologize and we could forget the whole matter and go on.

    Both have clearly stated the diameter of the wheel. It is either TD04 diameter as Tony says, or fullback TF035HL diameter as Rob claims. Everyone else wants to know. Personally it will be very interesting to see how much the fullback design will help to compensate the smaller diameter. But in order to draw any conclusions about the benefits of the fullback design, we need to get the dyno figures of stg 2, which we will have soon, and the difference in the wheel diameter. So, please, measure them for the benefit of turbo design understanding and cleaning the air.

    The diameter of the turbine wheel doesn't define the value of Tony's stg 2. The power stg 2 puts down is what matters. I don't get why some people are discussing about RB turbos in this thread, since this is not about RBs vs Vargas. This is about Vargas stg 2, which is a whole package rather than one component of it. Some people are just blindly bashing a product or a person in this thread because they just want to have a fight. Please stop fighting - especially about something that can be measured, agreed on and then forgot. Thank you.
    If I were VTT, I would explicitly prohibit a beta tester from doing this. VTT has no obligation to provide the exact specs of the product (which is still a beta version, let's not forget) and to reveal trade secrets. If someone wants to take apart a production version, that's their right.

    Until there are preliminary results that VTT and their testers are willing to publicly share, this thread should have been boring. All this politicking is only hurting the involved vendors (despite the entertainment value).

  4. #379
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Now that you have them in your kitchen, can you help Tony and everyone out and take a pic of you measuring the wheel diameter so that there is no angle and that everyone of us can read the true diameter of the turbine wheel from the pic straight and clear. This bickering needs to end. Both of the guys believe 100% they are right, but obviously only one of them is right. The one who is wrong, should apologize and we could forget the whole matter and go on.

    Both have clearly stated the diameter of the wheel. It is either TD04 diameter as Tony says, or fullback TF035HL diameter as Rob claims. Everyone else wants to know. Personally it will be very interesting to see how much the fullback design will help to compensate the smaller diameter. But in order to draw any conclusions about the benefits of the fullback design, we need to get the dyno figures of stg 2, which we will have soon, and the difference in the wheel diameter. So, please, measure them for the benefit of turbo design understanding and cleaning the air.

    The diameter of the turbine wheel doesn't define the value of Tony's stg 2. The power stg 2 puts down is what matters. I don't get why some people are discussing about RB turbos in this thread, since this is not about RBs vs Vargas. This is about Vargas stg 2, which is a whole package rather than one component of it. Some people are just blindly bashing a product or a person in this thread because they just want to have a fight. Please stop fighting - especially about something that can be measured, agreed on and then forgot. Thank you.
    This has already been answered, it is a TF035 profile custom made to fit the TD04 thrust parts , the bearing housing, and a couple other changes. Why are you guys so hell bent on rehashing everything? Below is from yesterday or 2 days ago I don't even remember now. It all blends together at some point.We tested a few wheels and determined these should flow to what the housings are capable of. Now its just time to test them and see. Man after this batch I may just stick to stage 3's.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    The problem here is. Go back and look, I never once said we were using the same turbine wheel as RB, not once. I mentioned plenty of times we are using the same Compressor wheel. Through our research we determined with the housing back pressure and heat limits, going to that big of a wheel was not needed to reach the limits of these housings. This was backed up by putting wheels quite a bit larger then the TD04L's in, running them and hitting the same wall up top. So our goal was to keep the stock bearing housing for ease of install and build custom components around them. In the end, this ended up actually costing more then just hacking off the vband inlet, welding on a TD04 one and buying a prebuilt CHRA, which is what Rob is doing, (its cheap guys, very cheap. Fully built, VSR balanced TD04L with a 15T compressor that will plug right into any set of RB's from our supplier is $165 dollars, but we wanted to address the thrust parts etc.). So if he was to hold our wheel up next to his it would be a tad smaller, this was by design. Does that make it a standard TF035 absolutely not. I stand by my challenge, buy a standard TF035 and a set of our stage 2's and try to interchange them, you aren't going to get very far. Just as with the stage 3, we had so much speculation before it was done. We are close to seeing what these things will do, and did it right by implementing a beta program, before shipping any other sets. We will go from here. I apologize for any BS. People always tell me to just ignore the drama, but sometimes I feel I need to defend what we are building.

  5. #380
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Tony's right there are some dense people around. What defines a TD04 anyway? Is it physical size or is it flow characteristics?

    And by that metric, if the housing is limiting flow to a level below what a true TD04 can flow, then is that big TD04 truly a TD04, or is it a TF035 with extra weight?

    For one thing, measuring the visual part is worthless. If you want to measure it you need to break the turbo down. Unless you know what you're doing, please don't do this. Actually for some of you, please do this.

    The argument is, if you are breathing through a straw, you simply need to match the turbine to the flow characteristics of that straw. If a TD04 can utilize 80% of the flow through the straw, then your TD04 is more like a TF035 anyway. Or, conversely, the TF035 is exactly like the TD04. But more efficient at what it does.

    Tony says the part is based on the TF035, but modified custom. So, if you have a custom turbo component that flows exactly like a TD04 in all situations relevant to this manifold, then don't you have in fact a TD04? Or does the TD04 have something else magical about it like some letters and numbers? And an extra fin that may or may not be worthwhile? This is a custom part, and until somebody proves otherwise he can name it based on the design style (TF035) or flow characteristics (TD04), whichever he fancies, since it's his custom part.

    If you don't believe this to be in fact true, the burden of evidence is on YOU. Maybe us americans are spoiled because if you call somebody a liar, you better have proof to back it up. No offense rob, but it was a major mistake on your part to say this without having these in your hands. And Tony, despite the word choice, was 100% within his rights to be pissed off. I kinda like his passion about things, makes him a great person for a project like this.

    /endrant
    This honestly might be my favorite guy on the forums, not only reasonable, but extremely intelligent.

  6. #381
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    This honestly might be my favorite guy on the forums, not only reasonable, but extremely intelligent.
    What sucks is he'll get tired of all the forum bs soon Click here to enlarge respect to @V8Bait
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Tony's right there are some dense people around. What defines a TD04 anyway? Is it physical size or is it flow characteristics?

    And by that metric, if the housing is limiting flow to a level below what a true TD04 can flow, then is that big TD04 truly a TD04, or is it a TF035 with extra weight?

    For one thing, measuring the visual part is worthless. If you want to measure it you need to break the turbo down. Unless you know what you're doing, please don't do this. Actually for some of you, please do this.

    The argument is, if you are breathing through a straw, you simply need to match the turbine to the flow characteristics of that straw. If a TD04 can utilize 80% of the flow through the straw, then your TD04 is more like a TF035 anyway. Or, conversely, the TF035 is exactly like the TD04. But more efficient at what it does.

    Tony says the part is based on the TF035, but modified custom. So, if you have a custom turbo component that flows exactly like a TD04 in all situations relevant to this manifold, then don't you have in fact a TD04? Or does the TD04 have something else magical about it like some letters and numbers? And an extra fin that may or may not be worthwhile? This is a custom part, and until somebody proves otherwise he can name it based on the design style (TF035) or flow characteristics (TD04), whichever he fancies, since it's his custom part.

    If you don't believe this to be in fact true, the burden of evidence is on YOU. Maybe us americans are spoiled because if you call somebody a liar, you better have proof to back it up. No offense rob, but it was a major mistake on your part to say this without having these in your hands. And Tony, despite the word choice, was 100% within his rights to be pissed off. I kinda like his passion about things, makes him a great person for a project like this.

    /endrant
    Please let's not go back to the endless philosophical discussion of naming a wheel. Everybody seems to have their own definitions of how to call a wheel. What I'm saying is that it is pointless to argue that the diameter is x vs y when anyone can measure which one it is.

    Let's just ignore the dense people Click here to enlarge Cars and turbos are our hobby and it should be fun and relaxing.

  8. #383
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    all I want to do is go get my car but I'm still stuck at work! fml
    BSM 340xi M-Sport
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  9. #384
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    all I want to do is go get my car but I'm still stuck at work! fml
    Monday is a great day for working Click here to enlarge

  10. #385
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    What sucks is he'll get tired of all the forum bs soon Click here to enlarge respect to @V8Bait
    Lol thanks guis! But seriously this place is crazy sometimes. I have a lot of free time lately so I enjoy it, plus I got banned at e90 on my 4th post I think. I wont be around so much after August when I start med school, I hear MS1 is kinda busy. I'll have to reapply my car thinking to people. Luckily I like people just as much (systems, calculations, diagnosing, working with my hands, that sort of thing). My only regret is no time for the stage 3's, according to my girlfriend at least.

    Finally Friday. Everyone, go get laid now and set this BS aside Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge

  11. #386
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Finally Friday. Everyone, go get laid now and set this BS aside
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    first startup
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    JP how do they feel?

  14. #389
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    don't know yet, it's cold here... the car didn't get up to temp on the drive home from the shop. later I'll be able to really give them a rip
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    sounds good. Question...have you driven a stage 2/RB/ASR etc car before? Only asking cause I know you have stage 1's so obviously (and hopefully) you'll feel a huge difference with these. I'm wondering if there is any difference between the other setups. Anyways keep us posted!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    it may never hit 2j levels, but it's true, S65 is a much rarer motor and more expensive to modify... tuning an S50/52 isn't really particularly cheaper than it used to be - except the car itself hitting easily attainable prices.
    The S65 is a mass produced V8 in 3 variants of M3's. It isn't some rare gem.

    And if you want to modify a BMW six-cylinder the S54 and S38 make more power and more sense.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    You're kidding right?? Once the ProEFI comes out (which will address fueling w/ the manifold & anti-lag with the tune's features), you'll already have the VTTS3s proving themselves on "traditional" tune cars (COBB, JB4, PROcede).

    And until you're car is completed & running, it probably won't be too long until a VTTS3 takes down Drew's car at an airfield event.
    You guys are forum racing again. A new turbo kit comes out and it's the same pattern.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    Here's some 180* headers I made a while back for a northstar project of mine.

    Attachment 28321Attachment 28322

    The sound this motor made from 4500rpm-8k rpm was pure, unadulterated sex. I want to hear that car he posted NOW. @Sticky get on it.

    I would feel bad about posting OT stuff but this thread is already there.
    Posted a long time ago:


  19. #394
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The S65 is a mass produced V8 in 3 variants of M3's. It isn't some rare gem.

    And if you want to modify a BMW six-cylinder the S54 and S38 make more power and more sense.
    it's not 'rare' in a conventional sense, but compared to how many S65's exist, it is

    you can get an N54+gearbox for $5k if you look in the right places... good luck getting the same in an S65 for less than $15k.

    howso? for next to nothing (in comparison) the N54 will hit 500whp, have lower miles on it, all sorts of plus sides.. the S38, yeah, maybe, it IS a 3.8, no replacement for displacement lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    In theory.. once you talk about "built" the HP per $ scenario is toast.
    As of now, the stg 3s are closing the gap, not taking the lead
    that's true - though depends on what sorta 'built' you're talking about.. fully forged bottom/headwork, 800whp would be a 'moderate' tune let alone glory run.

    well, it's not going to take long, that's plain to see.. what's the current WR S65 power production? it's less than 700whp isn't it?

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    so far so good! Everything is going smoothly, no issues. I'm starting conservative and will get more and more aggressive as the weekend progresses. I also need to pick up some meth, my boost juice (50/50) is just lame... it's time for a potent mix Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    it's not 'rare' in a conventional sense, but compared to how many S65's exist, it is

    you can get an N54+gearbox for $5k if you look in the right places... good luck getting the same in an S65 for less than $15k.

    howso? for next to nothing (in comparison) the N54 will hit 500whp, have lower miles on it, all sorts of plus sides.. the S38, yeah, maybe, it IS a 3.8, no replacement for displacement lol
    Who cares about 500 whp? And the N54 isn't hitting 500 whp easily anyway. If you want that kind of performance no pump you need new turbos, etc.

    M3 just needs a blower and 600 whp.

    But ya it's more expensive to modify but also has a higher ceiling.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    well, it's not going to take long, that's plain to see.. what's the current WR S65 power production? it's less than 700whp isn't it?
    S65 WR is 828 WHP / 535 WTQ by a Gintani Stage III, 16.5psi with a Vortech YSI Blower (which means there's ~4-5 more psi left in it with an aggressive, C16 tune)

    http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...I-supercharger
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    S65 WR is 828 WHP / 535 WTQ by a Gintani Stage III, 16.5psi with a Vortech YSI Blower (which means there's ~4-5 more psi left in it with an aggressive, C16 tune)

    http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...I-supercharger
    I plan on hitting over 22 psi with that blower.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I plan on hitting over 22 psi with that blower.
    What's the max psi you'd run the YSI on with the S65? Clearly you're after that 1k WHP number, I just figured it'd take the ProCharger to get you there.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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