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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dh58 Click here to enlarge
    If we compare jb1 (n54) when it came out and the performance gains it gave with the jb1 (n55) that is going to come out with the performance gains it is going to give.
    Excellent work! This is exactly what I'm talking about.
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    You can see from the pic that JB2 intercepts a very limited number of sensor information, namely, tmap and both widebands. Intercepting the tmap is basically what makes the power, widebands just make it a bit richer.

    In the OP of N55 sticky thread @N54/55tech, it is said that N55 tune corresponds to JB3, which is more complex.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    In the OP of N55 sticky thread @N54/55tech, it is said that N55 tune corresponds to JB3
    Hardware wise, it does. The software will evolve over time in a similar fashion from JB1 gains to where we are now.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Excellent work! This is exactly what I'm talking about.
    Yep Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    You can see from the pic that JB2 intercepts a very limited number of sensor information, namely, tmap and both widebands. Intercepting the tmap is basically what makes the power, widebands just make it a bit richer.

    In the OP of N55 sticky thread @N54/55tech, it is said that N55 tune corresponds to JB3, which is more complex.
    Ahh, I see what you are saying. The n55 jb1 is able to affect more than the n54 jb1 was. That said I think the only person who can properly settle this without speculation is burgertuning. Do they browse these forums? Or does anyone know if they can get them to comment?

    Ahhh. I found the post 654 was talking about. Its on n54 and its very good and its actually FROM burgertuning. Here it is: http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7992
    Last edited by dh58; 08-09-2010 at 09:35 AM. Reason: Found more informaton.

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    The n54tech thread is actually a pretty good read. One thing that worries me is something that Terry said who seems to be the burgertuning guy. "The N55 isn't that bad. Just lower your expectations a bit coming off the N54 scene and you'll be happy with it. Click here to enlarge"

    Even though its an opinion it happens to be the opinion of the only guy who has a working tune for the n55. That gives him reliability in my eyes. So according to him the n55 won't have as high ability as the n54 (eg 380hp with a tune and simple mods).

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dh58 Click here to enlarge
    That said I think the only person who can properly settle this without speculation is burgertuning. Do they browse these forums? Or does anyone know if they can get them to comment?
    BurgertTuning was one of the first and main sponsors at BimmerBoost Click here to enlarge

    Terry browses daily but the N54 section, not N55 yet.

    He is going to side with the N54 and I don't feel he is unbiased in that regard. It is simply far too early to decisively conclude one way or another.
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  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    He is going to side with the N54 and I don't feel he is unbiased in that regard. It is simply far too early to decisively conclude one way or another.
    lol better not ask him to post here then! lololol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dh58 Click here to enlarge
    lol better not ask him to post here then! lololol
    Go ahead and ask him if you want, why not Click here to enlarge
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  9. #34
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    Good info here, but, one question I have is this: do the n54 and n55 share the same block at all or same internals, or is it a completely new engine? (I know this may seem trivial to some, but its just a question.) Also, if it does share alot of the components does that allow one to assume the power it can handle?

    Also, since the n55 is going to be in development now and the n54 is being phased out, i think it makes sense to pursue tuning the n55 and keeping up with the times. I say this because most likely the people who started with the FI I6s will stick to them for a while, and their expectations of tuners will be high!
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    Good info here, but, one question I have is this: do the n54 and n55 share the same block at all or same internals, or is it a completely new engine? (I know this may seem trivial to some, but its just a question.) Also, if it does share alot of the components does that allow one to assume the power it can handle?

    Also, since the n55 is going to be in development now and the n54 is being phased out, i think it makes sense to pursue tuning the n55 and keeping up with the times. I say this because most likely the people who started with the FI I6s will stick to them for a while, and their expectations of tuners will be high!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    actually I have. Call me stupid but I couldnt find where it explicitly states that they are the same engine pretty much. BUT, the article does a great job of making it seem like they took an n54 and added VANOS and a twinscroll turbo.

    Sorry for removing people off the topic's original intentions!!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    actually I have. Call me stupid but I couldnt find where it explicitly states that they are the same engine pretty much. BUT, the article does a great job of making it seem like they took an n54 and added VANOS and a twinscroll turbo.

    Sorry for removing people off the topic's original intentions!!
    interesting perspective. however, the n54 has double vanos i believe, just like the e46m engine. vanos is basically variable valve timing. so im not sure where you got that info, the n55 does not have vanos, but has whats called valvetronic. on the first page of this thread it was mentioned and its common knowledge by now.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by oddjob2021 Click here to enlarge
    interesting perspective. however, the n54 has double vanos i believe, just like the e46m engine. vanos is basically variable valve timing. so im not sure where you got that info, the n55 does not have vanos, but has whats called valvetronic. on the first page of this thread it was mentioned and its common knowledge by now.
    Got it! Sorry, all the Vs got jumbled up!
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    Got it! Sorry, all the Vs got jumbled up!
    no problem at all. just wanted to set the record straight. asking questions is the best way to get great knowledge so if you're not sure on a topic just ask. there are a bunch of guys here who know and love their engines more then their girl Click here to enlarge they may not show it but its true Click here to enlarge
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  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by alq80 Click here to enlarge
    actually I have. Call me stupid but I couldnt find where it explicitly states that they are the same engine pretty much. BUT, the article does a great job of making it seem like they took an n54 and added VANOS and a twinscroll turbo.

    Sorry for removing people off the topic's original intentions!!
    Topics don't stay on rails over here. You are still discussing the N55 and N54 so no big deal.

    Honestly, I don't know if the internals are different. The compression is the same so chances are the rods and pistons are the same.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    It's not just about the engine hardware. The software and tuning directive is different. The N55 is heavily MAF based which makes tuning it a pain in the ass. Yet another reason why the N55 will be a handful when it comes to making N54-like power figures. Good luck with that MAF sensor.

    dh58 if you want the data on that it can be found all over the internet, tuning turbocharged vehicles via MAP is much more straightforward.

    MAP is manifold absolute pressure for the record, the computer will calculate the mass of air entering the engine by using an extensive library of computation methods and look-up tables to arrive at the value of air mass. This is preferred in forced induction engines.

    MAF stands for mass air flow. And it uses a heated resistive element (in most cases) which measures the mass air entering the engine due to the cooling effectiveness of the air on the heated element. The added voltage to this element at a constant temperature corresponds to a unique flow rate. The problem with these systems is they don't handle turbulence well, turbulene around the heated resistor causes incorrect readings which causes your fuel ratio to go wild. Not a good thing on boost engines which create a good amount of turbulence.

    But what do I know.
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  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    It's not just about the engine hardware. The software and tuning directive is different. The N55 is heavily MAF based which makes tuning it a pain in the ass. Yet another reason why the N55 will be a handful when it comes to making N54-like power figures. Good luck with that MAF sensor.
    I think this means flash tunes will be getting the bigger gains than piggy backs on the N55.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think this means flash tunes will be getting the bigger gains than piggy backs on the N55.
    I would tend to agree with this assessment. But don't underestimate our piggyback tuners, they can do some trick stuff. I wonder if CPE has their standback working on the N55, or if it's even compatible with it to say the least.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    I would tend to agree with this assessment. But don't underestimate our piggyback tuners, they can do some trick stuff. I wonder if CPE has their standback working on the N55, or if it's even compatible with it to say the least.
    That is an excellent question and we should find out. Click here to enlarge Let's ask CP-E.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    It's not just about the engine hardware. The software and tuning directive is different. The N55 is heavily MAF based which makes tuning it a pain in the ass. Yet another reason why the N55 will be a handful when it comes to making N54-like power figures. Good luck with that MAF sensor.

    you make it sound like this is the first engine ever that works of MAF, but most modern engines now do run on MAF and allot of them are VERY tunable....the real problem is that this(135,335,etc) is a very small market so theres no "big boys" of tuning solutions out there.
    I mean, you ever seen the MAF on a EVO? the thing is huge!! and it also houses a baro and temp sensors. But some how, that car runs 20PSI stock and it only works of the MAF....it does have a MAP sensor but it's only used for emissions, its only a 1bar sensor!
    That stock MAF worked perfectly for me all the way up to 62X AWHP.....
    This is only 1 example that comes fresh to my mind =)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    The problem with these systems is they don't handle turbulence well, turbulene around the heated resistor causes incorrect readings which causes your fuel ratio to go wild.

    you are right about this, thats why a properly engineered intake is key , with air straighteners and all. you can't just slap a high flow filter and call it a day.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black e Click here to enlarge
    you make it sound like this is the first engine ever that works of MAF, but most modern engines now do run on MAF and allot of them are VERY tunable....the real problem is that this(135,335,etc) is a very small market so theres no "big boys" of tuning solutions out there.
    I mean, you ever seen the MAF on a EVO? the thing is huge!! and it also houses a baro and temp sensors. But some how, that car runs 20PSI stock and it only works of the MAF....it does have a MAP sensor but it's only used for emissions, its only a 1bar sensor!
    That stock MAF worked perfectly for me all the way up to 62X AWHP.....
    This is only 1 example that comes fresh to my mind =)
    It's not the first engine that works with MAF. And I never said it couldn't be done. I said it is not as easy to tune as MAP.

    Yes you can tune this car on MAF. I have seen 800-900 WHP cars run on MAF, no problem; but they also went full standalone. The transfer function of a MAF sensor changes when you start modding stuff. Boosted motor, go MAP Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by DBFIU; 08-11-2010 at 05:29 PM.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black e Click here to enlarge
    you are right about this, thats why a properly engineered intake is key , with air straighteners and all. you can't just slap a high flow filter and call it a day.
    YEP!

    Ask Terry what happened when he opened the hood to his car and tried to dyno it with a fan blowing.

    Instant 30 whp loss. Tell me you wouldn't feel discouraged lol

    I remember in my mustang days, I had a C&L 73 mm MAF sensor that worked great with a CAI. Because the air going into the MAF was fully developed flow. I tried putting a different filter on there and guess what, car wouldnt idle, revved like $#@! and ran rich. Know why? Only because my radiator fan turned on and started to disrupt the airflow into the MAF sensor. I couldnt figure that one out for a while lol.

    The trick is rotating the MAF sensor to try and hit a fully developed flow region within the pipe. Good luck with that on a 44k dollar BMW. People arent going to want to do that, the average dude who goes out and buys a chip isnt going to want to $#@! around with a MAF sensor nahmean? I just think it's a pain in the ass to get right.

    Now I could be wrong, and this MAF sensor could have 360 degree sampling in which case the air being measured is coming in from all angles; then ignore what I just said Click here to enlarge

    All in all I think BMW purposely put a MAF system on this car and tuned the motor stock to this MAF for a reason. Just like they put the diverter valve in the fricken compressor housing. And just like they put a limit on the DCT, etc... I'm sure the N55 is a great engine, hell I bet it has more potential than the N54, good luck unlocking it; that's all I'm trying to say.

    Bleh... Click here to enlarge

    P.S. I dont doubt our tuners, although it's a small market. Everytime we underestimate Terry, Shiv, CPE etc... We get a slap in the face with some new crazyness that is pretty freakin' impressive. There WILL be tunes out for this car. Soon Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by DBFIU; 08-11-2010 at 05:35 PM. Reason: I'm bored at work lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    P.S. I dont doubt our tuners, although it's a small market. Everytime we underestimate Terry, Shiv, CPE etc... We get a slap in the face with some new crazyness that is pretty freakin' impressive. There WILL be tunes out for this car. Soon

    i don't doubt them either, i think they do a great job considering there all piggybacks. i mean, 50HP from a "stage 1" in a engine thats been out in the US for 4-5 months is very impressive.
    I personally don't think that the DV on the compressor is that big of an issue. VW had the same design for allot of there turbos cars including the Porche 996 TT, Forge and other companies have replacement valves for all those applications and they work just fine.

    And as much as it sucks, i have to agree with BMW in trying to protect the DCT,you can't expect to be able to lunch a DCT all the time and expect the clutches to last 50K miles, there just not meant to be lunched all the time because there not for drag cars.... and it's def. not cheap to replace them. I'm actually surprised they offered stock lunch control.
    Theres very few cars out there with stock lunch control because even in manual transmissions applications ,if miss-used , mechanical failure is inevitable!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by black e Click here to enlarge
    ou can't expect to be able to lunch a DCT all the time and expect the clutches to last 50K miles
    I can attest to that.

    You can't expect the same in a manual car either though...
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