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  1. #1
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    Ethanol Content Analyzer - Eliminate the guess work out of E85 mixtures

    Why aren't we running this to take the guess work out of our E85 mixtures. This kit cost $379 and is made in the USA.
    I believe with a little bit of help from dzenno this kit would work great with COBB tuners running PTF maps.
    This will also work great for Terry's costumers running E85 mixes the BMS flash.
    Shiv is already running his own setup with the Procede so don't see to much of a benefit there.
    Are we doing this or what!!!!!

    Here is some info on it.....

    Real time display of fuel ethanol content from 0% to 100%
    Displays fuel temperature in Fahrenheit and Celsius ranging from -40 to 125 F (-40 to 52 C)
    Two analog outputs: Ethanol % and Fuel Temperature for use with datalogging or engine management systems
    Surface mountable sleek aluminum enclosure with bright LED display visible even in direct sunlight
    A flex fuel sensor is required. The ECA is compatible with standard OEM sensors used in most vehicles with the flex fuel insignia or which run on E85.

    ECA KIT
    We offer new Flow Trough Flex Fuel Sensor as a part of ECA Kit, which includes the Ethanol Content Analyzer, Flow Through Flex Fuel Sensor and ECA Harness with a correct connector. ECA Kit can be purchased directly from our order page.
    Note than connectors for Flow Through Flex Fuel Sensor and 12570260 Flex Fuel Sensor are different. We offer both styles.

    What's your ethanol percentage?
    The ethanol content of E85 fuel can vary from 60% to 92% ethanol. A fill up with E85 can drastically change the mix of fuel in your vehicle. For performance drivers determining actual ethanol content of E85 is essential to maximizing an engine tune and horsepower.

    Why know your ethanol percentage?
    E85 has the equivalent octane rating of 105 octane gasoline. Higher octane fuel is more resistant to knock allowing for more aggressive ignition timing, higher compression and increased engine power over gasoline itself. The Zeitronix Ethanol Content Analyzer helps you get the most out of your engine and fuel.

    Which vehicles have the flex fuel sensors?
    A partial listing of vehicles with flex fuel sensors is listed below. Newer vehicles with the capability for using E85 also use flex fuel sensors. Check for sensors with the following part numbers: 12568450 or 12570260. A picture of the sensor is given to the right and dimensions of the sensor are also given below.

    What are the sizes of the flex fuel sensor inflow and outflow lines?
    Zeitronix Flow Through Flex Fuel Sensor both tubes are 0.37" and 0.5" at the flange.

    12570260 flex fuel sensor tube sizes are as follows:
    Larger (outflow) tube: 0.37" and 0.5" at the flange.
    Smaller (inflow) tube: 0.31" and 0.44" at the flange.

    The usual mounting location for the sensor is the return fuel line.
    Always check for fuel leaks.


    ECA Analog Outputs
    Ethanol content and temperature analog outputs are available as part of the ECA. The flex fuel sensor does not provide these outputs. We have created the ECA to provide these outputs making use of E-85 easier with after market engine control modules and data logging systems.
    Analog Outputs Signal Range
    Ethanol Percentage 0-5 Volts 0% to 100%
    Fuel Temperature 0-5 Volts -40 to 125 C (-40 to 257 F)

    Ethanol % = 20 * Voltage Fahrenheit Temp. = -40 + 59.4 * Voltage Celsius Temp. = -40 + 33 * Voltage
    Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge


    12570260 Flex fuel Sensor Technical Specification:
    Measuring range: 0100% Alcohol (ethanol) in fuel mixtures
    Sensor Accuracy: 5% of the mixture ratio
    Output characteristic: Linear
    Operating temperature: Environment -40C +125C, Fuel -40C +90C
    Maximum fuel pressure: 10 bar, (145 psi)
    Maximum pressure drop: 0.1 bar, (1.45 psi)
    Maximum flow: 200 l/h
    Supply voltage: 618 Volts DC
    Sensor Temperature error: < 1.5%
    Response time: < 250 ms after power on at any temperature
    Design: Suitable for the installation in motor vehicles, independent of position. Housing is waterproof. Flex fuel sensor Dimensions are given below.


    Vehicles with GM 12570260 flex fuel sensors compatible with the Zeitronix Ethanol Content Analyzer:
    Trucks with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    2000-2002 GM 2.2L Chevy S-10 2WD pickups
    2000-2002 GMC 2.2L Sonoma 2WD pickups
    2000-2002 ISUZU 2.2L Hombre pickup
    2000-2005 GMC 5.3L V-8 Sierra half-ton pickups 2WD & 4WD
    2000-2005 GMC 5.3L V-8 Silverado pickups
    2003 Chevrolet 5.3L Avalanche 4-door pickups
    2004-2005 Dodge 4.7L Ram 1500 series
    2005 GMC 5.3L (Vortec) Avalanche
    2005 Nissan 5.6L V8 DOHC
    Minivans with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    1998-2003 Chrysler 3.3L Town & Country minivans
    1998-2003 Plymouth/Chrysler Voyager minivans, 3.3L
    1998-2005 Dodge 3.3L Caravan & Grand Caravan SE minivans
    2003 Dodge 3.3L Cargo minivans (all)
    Passenger Cars with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    2003-2004 Chrysler 2.7L Stratus sedans (all)
    2003-2005 Chrysler 2.7L Sebring sedans (all)
    2003-2005 Mercedes 3.2L C320 sport sedan and wagon
    2005 Mercedes 2.6L C240 sedan and wagon (all)
    Sports Utility Vehicles with an E85 Flex-Fuel Option:
    2002-2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Suburban SUVs (all)
    2002-2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Tahoe SUVs (all)
    Fleet 2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Tahoe police package
    2002 GM 5.3L (vortec) Denalis (all)
    2002-2005 GM 5.3L (vortec) Yukon & Yukon XL SUVs (all)


    Where is the sensor located?
    The sensor is mounted as part of the fuel line. Below is a partial list of vehicles and locations to find the sensor.

    2000 - 2002 Chevy S-10 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2000 - 2002 GMC Sonoma 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2003 Chevy S-10 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2003 GMC Sonoma 2.2L Passenger side, front frame rail, behind wheel well
    2002 - 2005 Chevy (Trucks, Suburban, Tahoe) 5.3L Mounted to frame directly under drivers feet
    2002 - 2005 GMC (Trucks, Yukon, Tahoe) 5.3L Mounted to frame directly under drivers feet

    What are the sensor dimensions?
    Units are in millimeters.
    Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge

    Last edited by AltecBX; 03-11-2013 at 12:23 PM.

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    This is basically the FlexFuel sensor that every tuner sells for cars looking to go Flex (ProEFI, Syvecs, etc etc) on standalones, the problem is our DME isn't capable of automatically adjusting (advancing or retarding) timing or (increasing or decreasing) fueling to maintain a target AFR with E85 (the DME has shown itself to very advanced & has no problem reducing timing when someone puts in "bad gas", but that's also petroleum based + it's just octane variation).

    I've come to conclusion that the PROcede Flex Fuel Maps works that way -- That in addition to the Vishnu fueling flash, somewhere in the PROcede logic are the calculations ("settings") for the various ethanol concentrations (which are determined by the same FlexFuel sensor GM & everybody else uses). Is it ideal & the best setup? NO. Is it the best currently available E85 setup from the mainstream tune options? YES.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I didn't bother reading 80% of this. You need to learn some about lambda O2 sensors and how any modern flex fuel vehicle works. An ethanol content monitor is not only expensive and unnecessary, it is more unreliable and honestly a complete waste of time. This "ethanol sensor" is only necessary for flexfuel circa 1990's and early 2000's.

    In a nut shell, stoich for gasoline is 14.7:1 which equates to a lambda of 1. Stoich for E85 is 9.75:1 which equates to a lambda of 1. Your car monitors in lambda and not AFR, all the car has to do is monitor trims, or duty cycle vs engine load, and you can figure out the ethanol content. It's really quite simple. We have wideband sensors in our cars not narrowbands.

    What limits you from running E85 on a stock tune was a choice by BMW probably from the newness of the DI system more than anything, not an ethanol content monitor.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by V8Bait; 03-11-2013 at 12:45 PM.

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    I see that the Procede uses the signal from the sensor to alter fuel, ignition timing and boost settings. It doesn't display it out to the user.
    I'm looking at the kit for the readout of the E85 mix in the tank, not to advance or retard timing. There are a lot of people out there with the same question, "How much E85 mix can i use". Just want a system to read out how much mixture you just put in to match that of your map your running.
    Last edited by AltecBX; 03-11-2013 at 12:54 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I didn't bother reading 80% of this. You need to learn some about lambda O2 sensors and how any modern flex fuel vehicle works. An ethanol content monitor is not only expensive and unnecessary, it is more unreliable and honestly a complete waste of time. This "ethanol sensor" is only necessary for flexfuel circa 1990's and early 2000's.

    In a nut shell, stoich for gasoline is 14.7:1 which equates to a lambda of 1. Stoich for E85 is 9.75:1 which equates to a lambda of 1. Your car monitors in lambda and not AFR, all the car has to do is monitor trims, or duty cycle vs engine load, and you can figure out the ethanol content. It's really quite simple. We have wideband sensors in our cars not narrowbands.

    What limits you from running E85 on a stock tune was a choice by BMW probably from the newness of the DI system more than anything, not an ethanol content monitor.

    Cheers.

    +1
    I like this guy^
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    If you really want to measure the ethanol at a given pump get one of those ethanol measuring beakers for $15.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AltecBX Click here to enlarge
    I see that the Procede uses the signal from the sensor to alter fuel, ignition timing and boost settings. It doesn't display it out to the user.
    I'm looking at the kit for the readout of the E85 mix in the tank, not to advance or retard timing. There are a lot of people out there with the same question, "How much E85 mix can i use". Just want a system to read out how much mixture you just put in to match that of your map your running.
    I'm pretty sure the proceed flex fuel kit does tell you ethanol %. It's either hijacking one of the gauges or through the logging interface.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    If you really want to measure the ethanol at a given pump get one of those ethanol measuring beakers for $15.
    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
    I'm pretty sure the proceed flex fuel kit does tell you ethanol %. It's either hijacking one of the gauges or through the logging interface.
    I haven't used the Procede Flexfuel so I wouldn't know if they can give the user a display to show them by a hijacked gauge.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AltecBX Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge


    I haven't used the Procede Flexfuel so I wouldn't know if they can give the user a display to show them by a hijacked gauge.
    It shows up in the user software.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    If you really want to measure the ethanol at a given pump get one of those ethanol measuring beakers for $15.
    +1 Its pretty damn easy to do besides costing a lot less.

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...etermine-Mixes
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
    +1 Its pretty damn easy to do besides costing a lot less.

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...etermine-Mixes
    Nice calculator. I've been using a few from the web that works just as well. But what I'm looking for is just a monitor that will tell us directly what mixture we're running. I don't care if the tuner wants it integrate it or not. We can't always be measuring the content of ethanol from every gas station, from different delivery, different season, etc.. ProEFI & Vishnu gives us options. Why not have other tuners tuning for this same engine, give us them as well.

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    Heres another idea, tune for E30, run E50 assuming your LPFP can handle it, that way you don't have to worry about ethanol variances. The 5-10 rwhp difference isn't worth the hassle.

    Like I said earlier, I found very little performance advantage going from E30 to E50 short of my LPFP taking a dive up top on the higher ethanol concentrations.

    But of course, if you must know the ethanol concentration, all those sensors run a 0-5v wideband which scales accordingly from 0-100%. Im sure you could rig one of those sensors up to an external gauge.
    Last edited by themyst; 03-11-2013 at 06:30 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Heres another idea, tune for E30, run E50 assuming your LPFP can handle it, that way you don't have to worry about ethanol variances. The 5-10 rwhp difference isn't worth the hassle.
    The obvious problem is with running Ethanol (straight or in blends) is it requires an additional 30% higher fuel pump flow. So by running E50 on an E30 tune, you might not be meeting the fuel requirements. Luckily the DME is intelligent enough to adapt on it's own, but you def wouldn't want to run your engine like that long term.

    The nice thing about the ProEFI or Vishnu E85 Mapping (if it actually is that advanced), is that it takes all the guess work out & adjust everything for you automatically, regardless of what the actual ethanol concentration is. Truth of the matter is it's easier to run straight pump gas (91 or 93) or straight E85, then running blends.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    But of course, if you must know the ethanol concentration, all those sensors run a 0-5v wideband which scales accordingly from 0-100%. Im sure you could rig one of those sensors up to an external gauge.
    Why then aren't we running it. Can someone come up with a DIY to this?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The nice thing about the ProEFI or Vishnu E85 Mapping (if it actually is that advanced), is that it takes all the guess work out & adjust everything for you automatically, regardless of what the actual ethanol concentration is. Truth of the matter is it's easier to run straight pump gas (91 or 93) or straight E85, then running blends.
    I agree. Then why aren't more running a similar setup. Why is ProEFI and Vishnu ahead on this front. We all know that this platform is making greater power on running ethanol and upgrading turbos (ST or TT).

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    $199 I think
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    I just... I just... Click here to enlarge

    OP- do you understand the difference between tuning with lambda and tuning with afr?

    This must be how shiv makes money.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AltecBX Click here to enlarge
    I agree. Then why aren't more running a similar setup. Why is ProEFI and Vishnu ahead on this front. We all know that this platform is making greater power on running ethanol and upgrading turbos (ST or TT).
    Well complete Flex Fuel is the ProEFI's MO (as long as the car has been tuned for straight 91/93 pump + E90, you can run any blend) utilizing AFR values, meanwhile the PROcede (like V8Bait mentioned) it's tuned utilizing the OEM DME, on lambda values.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
    I just... I just... Click here to enlarge

    OP- do you understand the difference between tuning with lambda and tuning with afr?

    This must be how shiv makes money.
    No I don't. This is prob why I'm not understanding why we cant have this without going with a standalone and reprograming the AFR.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Well complete Flex Fuel is the ProEFI's MO (as long as the car has been tuned for straight 91/93 pump + E90, you can run any blend) utilizing AFR values, meanwhile the PROcede (like V8Bait mentioned) it's tuned utilizing the OEM DME, on lambda values.
    I understand now. But this is the expensive way to go, especially for those who purchased tunes already.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    $199 I think
    You still need the sensor which is another $199. $379 if you buy the kit.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by AltecBX Click here to enlarge
    No I don't. This is prob why I'm not understanding why we cant have this without going with a standalone and reprograming the AFR.
    Ok cool, that can be fixed :-)

    I'll try to keep it somewhat brief how this all works. You already know that E85 has 30% less energy content than gasoline, thus it takes 30% more fuel to extract the same power. What you may not realize is how the computer actually runs in the background, behind everything.

    You probably know that 14.7:1 AFR is stoich for gasoline, stoich means that there is exactly enough air for that volume of gasoline. In lambda terminology, stoich is a value of 1. In contrast, since E85 has less energy and takes more to run, it has a stoich value of 9.75:1 AFR. If you read that out loud, 9 parts air to one part E85, that's a lot more gas than 14 parts air to 1 part gasoline, by a factor of 5 parts air so to speak.

    Now, oxygen sensors cannot calculate AFR values because they don't know how much gas or how much air you are actually adding, they also don't know if the gas has 10% ethanol, or 0% ethanol, or 85% ethanol which all run different volumes for a stoich reading. All they can do is sniff the exhaust and tell you if the mixture has enough air for how much gas you added, regardless of their energy content. If it's rich, the value goes below one, if it's lean the value goes above 1.

    So here's the trick. On a full E85 tune, if you are looking at a AFR log and it says stoich around 14.7:1, it's lying to you. It's actually at 9.75:1 by volume of fuel injected, but the gauges are all mathematically calibrated to gasoline's energy content. If you switch to lambda, however, 1 is 1, regardless of fuel type. There is no backend calculation required since it's a RAW output so to speak. I hope that part makes sense, because this concept is the biggest one.

    So how to tune for flexfuel on a modern engine WITHOUT an ethanol sensor, that's easy. The car you drive will target specific lambda values (AFR values that you input for gasoline in Cobb get converted to lambda in the background, which are universal across all fuel types). The car reads the lambda of say 1.1 or higher, meaning lean, when you mix in E85 to gasoline. So, the car will increase fuel trims to bring it back to stoich. Even at WOT, the car is having to increase fuel trims to keep lambda targets in check (it's very fast at this). Now stock, the computer see's it's taking way more fuel to hit the correcet lambda (rich/lean) reading, and throws a check engine light. With a true flexfuel car, it makes a note that it's taking X units more gas to hit target readings, meaning the energy content has lowered in the fuel. The computer interprets this as E85 being used, and can calculate the effective % ethanol based on injected fuel and engine load to meet O2 targets. It can do this very precisely because we have a returnless fuel system that is more precise than you can imagine. It can then adjust timing up and other values appropriately.

    Stock, your car will throw a check engine light because it doesn't understand why the fuel trims go up so high to hit target lambda readings (it's adjusted for gasoline). In a JB4 car, it basically lies that the fuel pressure is going down, causing the computer to increase injector duty cycle, and keeps lambda readings in check. Since the stock advance curve is very agressive, that takes care of itself. The JB4 reads the better timing as fuel that is supportive of current boost levels, and adjusts boost targets up. You will never run lean with lambda tuning with any fuel type assuming the fuel system can keep up, which is why you log the pressures.

    This is my last smart post today. I made some generalizations, and you guys can feel free to correct stuff, but that's the idea. If you want to monitor ethanol that's fine, it's always nice to know exactly what you have. Especially on track days, but day to day it just really doesn't matter. This is all also why you can have a tune for E30, and just run E50. The car will target the same lambda values, it will just require some additional fuel to hit them. That is all taken care of for you, your car runs in closed loop ALL the time (not many do this). All you have to do is watch the pump pressures and you're golden.

    Hope that helps

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    I’m sure the n54 DME can handle either flexfuel based on trims or a sensor. Probably built in to all modern ECUs, just have to change some parameters in the programming.

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    Very cool moved to general automotive.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    I’m sure the n54 DME can handle either flexfuel based on trims or a sensor. Probably built in to all modern ECUs, just have to change some parameters in the programming.
    Yes, any modern engine with a wideband O2 that can stay closed loop all the time (or is very good at adjusting open loop) should technically be able to run as flexfuel, if the engineers wanted it to.

    Lots of times, things like larger injectors, larger fuel pump, concerns with dissimilar metals corroding with ethanol, etc., trump this though.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    v8 thanks. I definitely learned something new today. I enjoy reading your post throughout the site.
    Very welcome change on this site.

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