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Thread: Stacking an External Boost Controller on top of COBB for 21+ psi non-intrusively!

              
  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by V8Bait Click here to enlarge
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    Alpha-N above 21psi by chance?

    I like the box Terry made, nice oldschool chipburner too, tiny compared to my good 'ol willem burner. The only real downside to this method is the fact you have to plug it in and scale your current maps, and the fact it's not a true ISO setup.
    Alpha-N? Nah, just Cobb/DME song/dance
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Really appreciate the help, thank you. Definitely send it Tony's way in case he'd be willing to use it.

    In the meantime though, a little breakthrough on our side in this morning. I've managed to figure out a way to get around the boost limit in the DME as well. It is "cheating", not proud of it, but so are all other current options. This way at least we get full full transparency/visibility into the tuning without dependency on an external device. Haven't tried it yet but on paper it make complete sense.

    Again, thank you. I owe you for doing this and willing to help us out.
    Change the MAP scaling to trick the DME into thinking it's less boost than it is?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
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    Change the MAP scaling to trick the DME into thinking it's less boost than it is?
    There are a couple changes. I'd rather not talk about them right now. If they end up working out once we're done tuning 91 and 93 (where this isn't required) we'll let you guys know. Not using them just yet.
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    What's wrong with using a JB3? It will add additinoal boost and doesn't use CAN.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
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    What's wrong with using a JB3? It will add additinoal boost and doesn't use CAN.
    So is changing the MAP scaling to trick the DME into thinking is running less boost

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    Curious as to who asked Shiv for any info on anything? Cause I know me or Dzenno didn't. In a post the other day Shiv actually said he would write us some firmware for the Procede if I remember reading it write. I thought that was pretty cool of him. Unlike a lot of people here I don't have a problem with either camp and try to stay neutral. But I am just curious as to where we asked him for any help?
    Tony, if you re-read Dzenno's post, you'll see where he asked shiv for tuning tips via CPS (cuz when he tried it he had a ton of miss fires). I'm assuming he would have no objections to stacking procede untop of the cobb tune, if that helped him raise boost past a certain level, and log at the same time. Shivs singles have his "procede base flash", with Procede stacked on top, and he is able to push enough boost to hit 650-700whp.

    Tony, you have to understand that I'm a road course type of guy. Our world is completely different from all this straight line acceleration stuff. Nothing mentioned in this thread would work for us, as we live in a mostly flash tune world. To talk to you would derail your focus of commercialization into the straight line racing/show car market.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Certain things like crank position are sampled thousands of times per second. Boost and other analog inputs hundreds. But the stuff we read from the CAN data are things that don't change much within 1/10th of a second. Like DME boost set point, throttle position, oil & water temperature, fuel trims, etc. But if the DME drops some of those down to say 5hz because it's splitting bandwidth with another logging device we may run in to various issues. Remember the JB4 is basically just one of ~20 nodes on the car pulling data from the DME. And gets the lowest priority.
    Terry are you talking about these..? If so, how can we assign it a higher priority?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    OK Tony & D I made a present for you guys. I found an old JB+ I had sitting around, put a N20 3.5 bar sensor connector on one end, gutted the JB+ code and replaced it with code that will read the 3.5 bar sensor and output a normal 2.25 bar output for the DME to read. And then scaled the pot to linearly reduce from 0% to 15% of the boost value over 3psi. Should up your usable limit from the factory 21psi to around 26psi. To use this you'll need to switch the Cobb back to the logic that uses the factory TMAP sensor. I'd increase the global fuel scaling offset maybe 15% to account for the variance. You'll need a physical boost gauge on the car as well to verify actual boost vs. DME observed boost.

    Just say the word and you can play with it. Click here to enlarge
    Terry, you're just Gangsta dude. Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    Not evolve fast enough with the platform? We are talking about a 6 year old platform that just now got its first real dual turbo upgrade right? Cause if that is your idea of a fast evolution I would love to see your idea of slow.
    Curious on your thoughts on why ASR, RB, Vivid Racing, and others aren't real twin turbo upgrades?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Eleventeen Click here to enlarge
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    What's wrong with using a JB3? It will add additinoal boost and doesn't use CAN.
    The logic employed with it would not work for what they are trying to do. I think the modified JB+ will work nicely for their needs. At least enough to evaluate the advance curve. And once that is done they should switch over to the JB4 G5 ISO.
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  12. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
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    Terry, you're just Gangsta dude. Click here to enlarge
    lol such is the life of a car nut embedded engineer. If it doesn't exist or costs too much and you want one just make it. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    With the 3.5bar sensor on the car the actual limit is 22.5psi at the moment so we have about 22psi of tunable boost. With the OEM tmap this tunable boost limit is at around 21psi.

    Thing to keep in mind is this sort of high boost support is something that was worked on sort of off hours by some guys at Cobb enthusiastic enough to help. This wasn't a top priority in their projects to my knowledge. Our initial update was that they'd work on handling the limit when the hardware became available and that it wouldn't take a huge amount of time. The last update, after their further in-depth research, was that it'd take a couple months due to complexity in altering the ROMs to support it properly. I'm sure if it were a top priority on the table an update would be released much sooner.

    It is not a flag or value where you set a limit. Everything in the DME is modeled based on MAF, VE. All of it needs appropriate recalibration/adjustment to not have issues while tuning. It may look simple on the outside (e.g. change the boost limit from 21 to 100psi) but apparently BMW engineers didn't make it that simple and, it is what it is.
    how come it's 22.5psi when 3.5bar would be.. 36psi sensor-wise? is the 3.5bar sensor scaled JUST slightly differently in cobb? if you only get an extra 1psi what's the point?

    very confusing

    i thought the MAP sensor operated on a voltage range (1-5 or whatever) so if it sends 5v (or close) to the DME, it's sensing max pressure etc...

    i'm guessing i'm totally wrong, but i'd like to know in what way lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
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    Tony, you have to understand that I'm a road course type of guy. Our world is completely different from all this straight line acceleration stuff. Nothing mentioned in this thread would work for us, as we live in a mostly flash tune world. To talk to you would derail your focus of commercialization into the straight line racing/show car market.
    why wouldn't a piggy work compared to a flash for 'road course' guys? 99% of N54 owners over here run a piggy regardless of purpose.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
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    Curious on your thoughts on why ASR, RB, Vivid Racing, and others aren't real twin turbo upgrades?
    They were all stock frame were they not, meaning they were all pre-set to have the same back pressure and boost limits no matter how big of wheels you can shove in them. Those tiny turbine housings can only flow so much no matter what. So yes this is the first real twin turbo upgrade. Those are upgraded stock frame turbos, our stage 2's included.They work wonderful and you will never match the spool they produce. But if you want bigger numbers, you got to go single or a set up like this.
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  16. #90
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    Quote "Originally Posted by Turkeybaster115 Click here to enlarge
    Tony, you have to understand that I'm a road course type of guy. Our world is completely different from all this straight line acceleration stuff. Nothing mentioned in this thread would work for us, as we live in a mostly flash tune world. To talk to you would derail your focus of commercialization into the straight line racing/show car market."

    Can anyone tell me what this guy is talking about? Show car market?Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
    Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
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  17. #91
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    No one ever knows what he's talking about lol
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    Can anyone tell me what this guy is talking about? Show car market?Click here to enlarge Click here to enlarge
    No one does, ignore him, dont feed the trolls...
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    These would suck on a show car. How do you show them off shoehorned in there? That means this kit is destined to fail. Only show car setups make any REAL numbers. Everyone knows this Tony.

    You need more stickers, for starters. What were you thinking?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    You're wrong. My car stopped misfiring entirely while testing the Vargas prototype twins. This was on a lot more boost and timing than what I had before. Why it stopped I don't know as this was considerably more power and torque than I ran before when it did trigger misfires.
    Can you going to more detail on this? I thought you were running rb and now v2. Are the v2 allowing for more boost and timing?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
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    Can you going to more detail on this? I thought you were running rb and now v2. Are the v2 allowing for more boost and timing?

    @dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks ?
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
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    I can tell you his lack of answer is because he isn't at liberty to discuss what turbos he was running. Right now he has a set of stage 1's on his car to test some of his new tuning techniques and how they respond to them.They were installed 2 days but he hasn't even driven his car because someone was taking up all his time this weekend tuning a car. Not sure who that was...Click here to enlarge
    Vargas Turbocharger Technologies
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    Making the world happier one turbocharger at a time
    N54 OEM - Stage 2 Batch 2 available!
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    Stage 3 production kits almost here!
    Shotgun HPFP upgrade pre-order now!
    N55 World Record: 477WHP / 509WTQ, 11.4 ET / 123MPH
    N54 Stock Frame (100% E85) World Record: 644WTQ
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    N54 (96-98 octane, no meth) World Record,
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    OK Tony & D I made a present for you guys. I found an old JB+ I had sitting around, put a N20 3.5 bar sensor connector on one end, gutted the JB+ code and replaced it with code that will read the 3.5 bar sensor and output a normal 2.25 bar output for the DME to read. And then scaled the pot to linearly reduce from 0% to 15% of the boost value over 3psi. Should up your usable limit from the factory 21psi to around 26psi. To use this you'll need to switch the Cobb back to the logic that uses the factory TMAP sensor. I'd increase the global fuel scaling offset maybe 15% to account for the variance. You'll need a physical boost gauge on the car as well to verify actual boost vs. DME observed boost.
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge Nice

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    I can tell you his lack of answer is because he isn't at liberty to discuss what turbos he was running. Right now he has a set of stage 1's on his car to test some of his new tuning techniques and how they respond to them.They were installed 2 days but he hasn't even driven his car because someone was taking up all his time this weekend tuning a car. Not sure who that was...Click here to enlarge
    Understood thanks for the update Tony
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
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    I can tell you his lack of answer is because he isn't at liberty to discuss what turbos he was running. Right now he has a set of stage 1's on his car to test some of his new tuning techniques and how they respond to them.They were installed 2 days but he hasn't even driven his car because someone was taking up all his time this weekend tuning a car. Not sure who that was...Click here to enlarge
    Tony can you comment on whether the stage two can push more power than the Rb?
    2015 - Cayman GTS - Stock
    2011 - 335is e92 - Cobb PTF E40/Rob Beck/AR/Helix (458 rwtq and 479 rwhp) - Retired
    2007 - 911 Turbo - EP1/AMS (617 awtq and 500 awhp) - Retired
    2008 - 335i e92 - Cobb/AR/Helix/OSS (384 rwtq and 356 rwhp) - Retired
    2003 and 2005 330i/ci zhp - Stock - Retired

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mithiral67 Click here to enlarge
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    Tony can you comment on whether the stage two can push more power than the Rb?
    Why ask these types of questions until there is dyno's done and available.
    Tired of being cold? I sell pieces of paradise! Click here to enlargePM me for more info!

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