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Thread: Need some insight on smoking issue

              
  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bmw335iguy Click here to enlarge
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    So the seals on your RB's went out? How many miles were on them?
    +1

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    BavBullet thanks for the advice
    2009 FBO RB'd mtech e92 6AT - 11.3@126
    2008 FBO CR e82 6M - 12.0@120 - Sold

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    Agreed, probably turbos, maybe oil filter housing/valve cover gasket, etc.

    Or his seals went south (like mine) and started leaking at the union. Something like that you may not catch on a quick glance-over on the lift.

    Attachment 27290
    Attachment 27291
    Well that is exactly where my RB's are dripping oil like crazy. Same problems here , heavy oil consumption and smoking after install of the upgraded turbo's.

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    900.......??????? I wish it was 900

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by funkmobster Click here to enlarge
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    Well that is exactly where my RB's are dripping oil like crazy. Same problems here , heavy oil consumption and smoking after install of the upgraded turbo's.
    I'm checking my RBs this weekend too for leaks, I have both them issues since installation as well. In the last week I've been smelling oil through the vents so its looking bad.
    Alpine White 2008 6MT 335i - Cobb AP - PTF Tuned - RB Turbos - AR DPs - VRSF 3.5" exhaust - KL Racing FMIC - 380mm BBK F&R - BMS DCI - OEM M3 LSD - AKG subframe bushes - M3 Sways and rear arms - M3 wishbones - ER CP - Spec Stage 3+ clutch and steel SMFW - AST 4100 Coilovers - UUC DSSR -UUC Black tranny mounts - TMS Alu diff bushes - Forge DVs - Aquamist HFS-4 meth - Alufelgen CS7s - Michelin PSS - BMWP V1 Steering Wheel

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    Hi guys!
    I have a problem with a smoke, misfires and oil in spark plugs, but it's not turbos and it occurs periodically.
    I have done compression and leak down test. All cylinders is the same numbers without leaks (1-3% at 10bar).
    Vacuum in the crankcase at idle and WOT is -4-5 inH2O (0 inH2O with RB PCV valve).
    New valve cover with seal, valve seals, new CP pistons with rings etc.
    I think that valve guide are bad.

    Click here to enlarge
    1 & 3 cylinders oil.
    Last edited by Tomaz; 03-08-2013 at 06:42 AM.

  8. #32
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    think you should open your own thread
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
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    think you should open your own thread
    I think, I need open my engine again!Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tomaz Click here to enlarge
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    I think, I need open my engine again!Click here to enlarge
    when one of my plugs look like that my cylinder 5 had half compression so oil was pushed past the rings. Since you have done compression and leak down and all is fine maybe yes the guides allow oil to pass through. When i rebuilded my engine at 65K km my valve guides had to be fixed since there was a lot of play. maybe also the valve seals? but leakdown should have shown that.
    also i dont know how good your shop is but my rebuilded engine only gave me headaches and problems and i am never going to rebuild an engine again . i just fitted a second hand engine build by BMW and runs GREAT
    07 335i AT - TD St.2 Turbos - COBB (Custom Cobb mapping by http://www.protuningfreaks.com/) - JB4G5 ISO - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - E85 Walbro - Injen Intake - Helix IC - Snow Stg. 3 - Stett CP - AR DPs - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade - Alpina B3 Flash
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #35
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    Leaks in a turbo are a result of the crankcase breather system not working well enough / getting too clogged to handle the higher blow by of high HP engines.This causes positive pressure to build up in the crankcase, which restricts the oil from flowing down the drain hose and into the crankcase causing the oil to back up to the bearing housing. If this is not fixed quickly enough, it will ruin the turbo seals.

  12. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
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    Leaks in a turbo are a result of the crankcase breather system not working well enough / getting too clogged to handle the higher blow by of high HP engines.This causes positive pressure to build up in the crankcase, which restricts the oil from flowing down the drain hose and into the crankcase causing the oil to back up to the bearing housing. If this is not fixed quickly enough, it will ruin the turbo seals.
    so how do we fix this? Also @ChuckD05, any updates?
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  13. #37
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    @ChuckD05

    I know your car was (is?) down, but did you get anywhere with this before you took it to get worked on?

    I have been noticing a lot of smoke from my car as well (70K miles, never tuned, BMS OCC installed - catches very little oil, RB PCV valve). I notice it specifically at low throttle angles, especially when driving around parking lots, or with my foot off the gas, traveling down hill. In other words, it seems to coincide with high levels of manifold vacuum. It also seems to come from both exhaust tips.

    This indicates to me when blowby gasses are being circulated from the crankcase through the RB PCV valve, and into the head ports, the oil is not being separated effectively from the gasses.

    The last time I checked the BMS OCC, i did notice some oil inside, and it has been on for about 10,000 miles. This also illustrates the lack of effectiveness of the four cyclonic separators in the valve cover. Once the blow by gasses make it to the BMS can, the oil should already be separated from the gasses.

    Recently I installed catalyst-free downpipes, and began to notice the smoking immediately after. Some have hypothesized the lack of back pressure due to the removal of the catalysts is causing the seals to leak. I think that hypothesis is nonsense. The back pressure is way too variable to be relied upon for sealing off the fluids in the turbos from the exhaust flow. Inside a given turbine housing you get an exhaust pulse every 240į of crankshaft rotation, and the absolute time between these pulses varies between 61 ms at idle to 5.7 ms at red line. I would expect the magnitude of these pulses to vary considerably with the amount of air that actually makes it into the combustion chamber. Furthermore, each turbine housing would be subject to a rarefaction following each pulse as the gas traveled down the exhaust system.

    I believe the removal of the catalysts is preventing the more complete combustion of the oil vapor, and that is why cars without catalysts tend to smoke more than cars with them. The removal of the catalysts causes the problem to become more apparent, but hardly is the root cause. I have noticed whiffs of smoke on hot days even with stock downpipes, specifically in traffic or with other stop-and-go driving.

    I believe over time the cyclonic separators become less effective. I also believe under hood temperatures play a part. I installed the downpipes on 4/13/13. I chose this date because it was no longer too cold to work on the car outside. So my installation of the downpipes was coincident with the increase in average ambient temperatures. An increase in ambient temperature may lower the effectiveness of the separators in that the oil vapor would be less dense, thus the centrifugal force developed inside the separator would be less effective at separating the oil from the gas. If the oil vapor/blowby gas mixture was cooler, the oil would be more dense relative to the gasses, i.e. closer to it's condensing temperature.

    I plan to do the following:


    • Immediately remove the engine cover, lessening the thermal resistance to ambient of the cyclonic separators.The engine cover has foam installed on the inside of it. Removing this cover and the foam will allow heat to flow more readily from the top of the valve cover to the environment. I will do this tonight, and test the results over the next four days.



    • This weekend I will remove the valve cover, and thoroughly clean it. Build up on the inside of the cyclonic separators could make them less effective. I also will clean and inspect the rest of the PCV components.


    Depending on the effectiveness of the above, I may explore new options for separating the oil from blow by gasses. I have been thinking about installing my own separation system. The system would have two main parts - one condenser and one separator. Vapors would flow from the valve cover into the condenser, where they would cool. The cooled gasses and probably some liquid oil would then flow into a separator at which time oil will flow back into the crankcase, and the vapors will flow through one of the two PCV valves, depending on the level of manifold vacuum. My (hopefully more effective) system would bypass the four cyclonic separators, directing the gasses to the factory PCV valves and the oil to the crankcase.

    So does anyone have anything to add to the discussion on the N54 PCV system?

  14. #38
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    My N54 135i I put in catless downpipes and didnt notice a change - then added catless midpipes and within a short amount of time the oil smoke was noticeable in parking lots and coming to a stop at intersections. I feel like you do that the catalysts were burning the vapors off and making the leak in what must be the turbos less noticeable.

  15. #39
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    I wonder if reinstalling the midpipes in my car or the downpipes in your car (not that you would) if you would no longer notice the smoke - which would not fix the leak but would prove the theory

  16. #40
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    I was smoking for awhile with my OEM secondary cats in, running catless downpipes. The car would release a white/blue puff of smoke after a stop or rev. Really thought it was the turbos, but it turned out to be an issue relating to my PCV system. I had installed a BMS OCC about a week before this started, so began to diagnose there. Once the can was removed, no more smoke at all. Solved my problem, from this day forth I will be on stock PCV. I don't mind emptying my FMIC once a year.

  17. #41
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    Removing the engine cover has greatly reduced the amount of smoke my car produces. It also reduced my oil temperatures.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
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    Removing the engine cover has greatly reduced the amount of smoke my car produces. It also reduced my oil temperatures.
    The engine cover? bc of temperatures?

  19. #43
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    what options are there to improve the pcv system? I will try that before I pull the turbs

  20. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by datsunpilot Click here to enlarge
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    The engine cover? bc of temperatures?
    Yes and quite possibly.

    I'm looking into an external air/oil separation solution using a Mann Provent 200, a small condenser made using aluminum tubing, aluminum washers and a spring (a custom tube fin cooler with internal turbulator), and a banjo fitting connected to the drain plug. The oil vapors and blowby gasses will cool in the condenser, then flow through the separator where the oil will return to the crankcase and the gasses will continue to the rear intake tube or head ports depending on manifold pressure. My solution will retain use of the stock PCV valves.

    This will require putting holes and fittings into the valve cover along with closing off the passage that directs blowby gasses through the factory air oil separators from the crankcase, but if it keeps my valves cleaner and reduces smoking, it is worth it.

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    Interesting - take pictures and share them

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by datsunpilot Click here to enlarge
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    Interesting - take pictures and share them
    Absolutely. I'm going to give cleaning the valve cover a shot before coming up with a custom solution though. I will share my findings regardless.

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    I solved my smoking problems by selling my catless downpipes and installing some AR race catted downpipes Click here to enlarge
    2007 BMW 335i 6MT / Alpine Weiss
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lulz_m3 Click here to enlarge
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    I solved my smoking problems by selling my catless downpipes and installing some AR race catted downpipes Click here to enlarge
    Your car may not smoke anymore, but my goal is to prevent as much oil as possible from entering the combustion chamber. Oil in the combustion chamber is not what you want. It gunks up the intake valves on its way in, and lowers the effective octane of the air fuel mixture. If you prevent the oil from getting into the combustion chamber in the first place, your valves stay cleaner, the car will not smoke, and you may be able to run more timing and or boost.

  25. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ajm8127 Click here to enlarge
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    Your car may not smoke anymore, but my goal is to prevent as much oil as possible from entering the combustion chamber. Oil in the combustion chamber is not what you want. It gunks up the intake valves on its way in, and lowers the effective octane of the air fuel mixture. If you prevent the oil from getting into the combustion chamber in the first place, your valves stay cleaner, the car will not smoke, and you may be able to run more timing and or boost.
    I hear ya, was more or less joking around - I really went catted to reduce civic type exhaust tones. I have debated with the idea of doing a Venturi tube in the exhaust but needed to see the whole picture of what's going on during boost/vacuum. Thanks for linking to those NG6 manuals Click here to enlarge
    2007 BMW 335i 6MT / Alpine Weiss
    Click here to enlarge

  26. #50
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    No worries. Glad people found those manuals helpful.

    I haven't noticed any unfavorable exhaust noise with my catalyst free downpipes, but of course its completely subjective. I have the stock E90 exhaust.

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