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Thread: Wagner ic

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    Wagner ic

    Amigos installed the ic and we clocked 311.29 on the first run and 306.7 on the second run mind at 90F weather. The previous weelk at 80F before the ic install we clocked at 306.7 on the first run and 298 on the second run suffice to say thst indeed the ic is the culprit. As far as mpg I will convey later but an intresting though was that 70-80 mph the computer wad reading 46 mpg vice 35-40 prevoiusly so its true what turboed statedw his ic install that you will hv bettet hwy mpg. Carsten Wagner sent me an email bench flow has been performed and pressure drops avail so DONT ASK me techies questions cause I dont know. Lenny has been informed and Renntech also so will try to get more whp in future .tiago I plan to do exhaust next Click here to enlarge

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    Nice to hear about the improvement.

    I have a 2011 German spec 335d E91 wagon, which will be having DPF replacement pipe, Wagner IC and Quaife LSD within the next few weeks. The DPF replacement pipe and the LSD already wait for the install, and the IC should be here soon.

    After all the modifications the car will be getting a custom mapping here in Finland.

    Expecting something like 360hp on the crank, the torque will be limited to 700Nm, as the ZF 6HP28 gearbox with the ZDW260RH-4GWK Torque converter (the combination used in 335dīs) is actually designed for 650Nm. It will take more if driven wisely (=less takeoffs from standstill) but the 700Nm is considered to be safe among European tuners.

    The next thing to change will be the injectors, they are really not capable to produce over 350-360 hp with sane duration timing (=without too much smoke). The 550d injectors must be bigger, but no one knows about the fitting...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kepardi Click here to enlarge

    After all the modifications the car will be getting a custom mapping here in Finland.

    Who does the mapping?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by S62R Click here to enlarge
    Who does the mapping?
    I still have two options, the mapper will be either Turbotec (Karala) or Findiesel. There are several mappers here knowing well the Bosch EDC16/EDC17 ECU:s used by BMW. As the engine works well and is proven to be solid with the DPF (DPF builds up a lot of back pressure/restricts the exhaust), there will be no problems with critical figures when the DPF is removed. The engine can take everything the stock injectors can do, and most likely a lot over 400 hp too.

    The mapping of a diesel is quite a lot more straight forward process compared to a gas engine mapping, because wrong a/f ratio wont break the engine. Diesel is always knocking, and running lean basically means that a diesel engine runs with a partial load. Itīs just about increasing the amount of fuel on high loads, and different RPM range, we do not want to trick with fuel rail pressure, as the piggyback systems (JBD, DTUK, KCR etc.) do. The high pressure common rail pump unit for 35d retails at 3590€, so going over the limits of the pump may end up being quite expensive... BMW diesels have proven to have strong high pressure pumps, but many Volvo/Fiat engines cant take the piggyback. And all of these car manufacturers use the same outsourced parts in common rail system, Bosch/Denso/Siemens depending on the model.

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    Both companies have a good reputation from what I heard...

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    wow I wish I lived in Europe and have all these goodies!!!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    311.29 on the first run and 306.7 on the second run mind at 90F weather. The previous weelk at 80F before the ic install we clocked at 306.7 on the first run and 298 on the second run suffice to say thst indeed the ic is the culprit.
    Seems to be making a nice difference. Wish you could dyno it.

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    Sticky I did DYNO it LOL

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    Sticky I did DYNO it LOL
    My bad, not sure if I missed the graphs.

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    in terms of efficiency: Static pressure drop across the intercooler of 0.5 to .09 inches of water would be good!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kepardi Click here to enlarge
    The mapping of a diesel is quite a lot more straight forward process compared to a gas engine mapping, because wrong a/f ratio wont break the engine. Diesel is always knocking, and running lean basically means that a diesel engine runs with a partial load. Itīs just about increasing the amount of fuel on high loads, and different RPM range, we do not want to trick with fuel rail pressure, as the piggyback systems (JBD, DTUK, KCR etc.) do. The high pressure common rail pump unit for 35d retails at 3590€, so going over the limits of the pump may end up being quite expensive... BMW diesels have proven to have strong high pressure pumps, but many Volvo/Fiat engines cant take the piggyback. And all of these car manufacturers use the same outsourced parts in common rail system, Bosch/Denso/Siemens depending on the model.
    Thank you! Maybe the most informative thing I've read in quite a while. Please post more and tell us about your progress. In the U.S., we are in the ice age of diesel tuning, and rely on the small morsels we are fed from Europe. Click here to enlarge

    What made you select the Wagner i/c?

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    Well, we have a yearly car inspection in Finland, and basically all tuning is forbidden. We just have to use original-looking parts to be sure to pass the inspection. They have to point out the failing or non-conforming parts in the car, but have no option to call for a dyno, so they have no chance to point out the extra power in the car. Normally they check f.ex. suspension bushings, springs, dampers, brakes, lights, windscreen, and focus on safety related, normally wearing equipment in the car.

    In the other hand, the insurance is valid if the yearly inspection is passed, so no problem anywhere if tuning cant be seen visually Click here to enlarge

    The choice for Wagner was quite easy, because it uses the original hoses, connectors and attachments and because of that, also looks like original. My DPF is the original one too, but modified. I cutted the DPF open from the "upper" side, and took out the filter, but left the cat in place to minimize "old bus" diesel odour. Then I just used TIG to weld a straight pipe inside the original DPF and closed the core. It looks 100% like the original DPF when looking from under the car, but in fact, there is just a straight pipe in place.

    I bought the old, used DPF for 50 euros, so it was also a cheap mod, and will work as well as the shiny stainless pipe.

    Many aftermarket parts, f.ex. big intercoolers and DPF removal pipes are shiny and would be easily noticeable. Some inspectors do not care, but it is nicer to pass the inspection without any hassle.


    Removing the DPF is maybe the best mod for most modern diesels. Yes, you will get a hint of black soot, but the fuel consumption will drop. Also, the DPF is the most restrictive part of the exhaust, so performance will be better without the DPF. In a diesel, most of the performance will be seen in faster response, but more high-rev power will be achieved too. The "empty DPF"-mod with a better flowing and cooling IC combined to a full custom remap might end up in explosive response, with sane consumption figures and safe power level around 370 crhp/700Nm.

    I plan to keep the stock mufflers. There are several 35d:s with over 370hp and stock mufflers around and the DPF removal also helps the engine removing the majority of the back pressure. BMW:s have quite a bad reputation as "the car for reckless drivers" here, so I dont want any more attention for my black wagon Click here to enlarge

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    Kepardi,

    which area are you from?
    I live in the Capitol area.

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    Wagner has published some data on the 335d fmic, the thread is here: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...083#post423083

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by S62R Click here to enlarge
    Kepardi,

    which area are you from?
    I live in the Capitol area.
    Hi,

    I live in the southwestern archipelago, so lots and lots of nice curly country roads every time when driving to work Click here to enlarge

    Lots of work to do (Iīm an entrepreneur) so the project was delayed for a couple of weeks.

    I did put Wagner IC in already in June. I might have noticed a very tiny increase in turbo lag, but the heatsoak was gone. The car can now be driven hard also on a hot day without any feeling of power loss. Colder air in intake is never a bad thing. Bigger IC works fine without any software modification.

    Yesterday, we fitted the DPF-box with the filter element removed. Quite hard and cramped to get it and all the sensors in place. Now have been driving with original software, Wagner IC and DPF deleted, the car is already very different, the pedal response is incredible. Especially low-end torque, smoothness and turbo lag are significantly better than with the DPF. Rev happiness will be there after the programming Click here to enlarge

    In other words, engine characteristics will be a lot better exactly on the low rpm-range where you will be using it most of the time.

    DPF delete is noticeable from the slightly sooty twin pipes and louder turbo whistle. I have no problem in living with a little soot coming out from the exhaust. Hard to notice, if the tuned software is made sensibly. The amount of soot is similar to all EU diesel cars from ~2005 and without DPF.

    The car will be tuned and driven in dyno tomorrow, Iīm expecting something 340 crhp and 700Nm of torque, measured in a dyno what is known to read "realistic or even pessimistic" figures.
    Last edited by kepardi; 10-21-2013 at 11:04 AM.

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    Kepardi I'm interested how u the removed the DPF. If u hv a video put it up . Also you just removed the internal mesh and NO lights hv come up wow I'm definetly doing it this as I thought before

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    Kepardi I'm interested how u the removed the DPF. If u hv a video put it up . Also you just removed the internal mesh and NO lights hv come up wow I'm definetly doing it this as I thought before

    It is quite a job. To get the DPF "box" off, we had to loosen one of the engine mounts. It is really cramped there.

    The DPF i just took open, took out the filter "mesh" and left the catalysator in place, the DPF and CAT are in the same unit.

    There will be no lights or limp mode, but a couple of fault codes due to increased air flow (backpressure too low, boost pressure too high, air flow rate too high). BMW has set very narrow "window" for these values in stock software. You have to find a tuner who can take the regeneration process out of the software. Itīs perfectly safe to drive with the fault codes, but the tune would be noticed in service.

    At least in Europe, if a tuner cant remove the DPF regeneration/EGR operation from the software, he doesnīt know much about modifying the ECU in question at all... Some "bulk" tuners simply multiply all tables in the software. Many have no clue what they really are doing, only a few really know what each value means. There are several hundreds of tables and all have their reason to be in the software...

    It might work but nobody knows how well it will go in the long run.

    If you code the regeneration off and tune the car, it will work as per normal with no fault codes.
    Last edited by kepardi; 10-21-2013 at 02:22 PM.

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    Gracias I hv a Polish guy that did something s this past friday via wifi from Poland to Puerto Rico and he told that if I can get the actual dpf removed he can delete it via ecu. Guess what I plan to do? Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d Click here to enlarge
    Gracias I hv a Polish guy that did something s this past friday via wifi from Poland to Puerto Rico and he told that if I can get the actual dpf removed he can delete it via ecu. Guess what I plan to do? Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    2008 135 GIAC Stage II Race File
    2011 335d Stock

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    will keep everyone posted!!!!

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    I just got the car from the software tuner. The power is incredible.

    I decided to ask to be careful with the low end torque, so basically under 2000 rpm the car is like stock, except for the better response due to better exhaust flow.

    I dont have the wheel HP curve yet, but the gain with Wagner IC, empty DPF and software is 58,6 HP or 20,8%, plus better driving dynamics and lower fuel consumption. The torque was limited to 700 Nm due to the transmission.

    Goes like stink and has no traction from standstill even with Quaife ATB diff and 265/35R19 rear tires... First gear is totally useless.

    Itīs interesting to think the torque as HP figure per RPM:

    1500 RPM ~100 HP
    2000 RPM ~180 HP
    2500 RPM ~230 HP
    3000 RPM ~300 HP
    4150 RPM ~340 HP

    >330 HP is available from 3500 to 4650 RPM, so the peak is very wide. Also explains the feeling of continuous and non-dramatic acceleration, while still going quite fast. There is no peak to reach, changing gear feels like it has no effect in acceleration.

    The middle range power is amazing when stock, now itīs from another world...

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    Kepardi I find your figures low . I got just from REENtech alone 300 whp vice 230 oem

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    Well, my car had 281 hp stock, it's a german model.

    I asked not to get everything out of the engine. Injection duration maps nor fuel pressure maps were not touched, but left stock. This is the maximum power level achievable with no tweaking of ECU operation, leaving the ECU working 100% as stock. I want to get the power using the ECU as it would be oem, but more powerful.

    You can get sth like 380 hp out of the engine, but the ECU will not be producing the power as designed. You will also get a lot of black smoke when the duration maps are touched. Mine is smokeless.
    Last edited by kepardi; 10-23-2013 at 03:02 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kepardi Click here to enlarge
    I just got the car from the software tuner. The power is incredible.

    I decided to ask to be careful with the low end torque, so basically under 2000 rpm the car is like stock, except for the better response due to better exhaust flow.

    I dont have the wheel HP curve yet, but the gain with Wagner IC, empty DPF and software is 58,6 HP or 20,8%, plus better driving dynamics and lower fuel consumption. The torque was limited to 700 Nm due to the transmission.

    Goes like stink and has no traction from standstill even with Quaife ATB diff and 265/35R19 rear tires... First gear is totally useless.

    Itīs interesting to think the torque as HP figure per RPM:

    1500 RPM ~100 HP
    2000 RPM ~180 HP
    2500 RPM ~230 HP
    3000 RPM ~300 HP
    4150 RPM ~340 HP

    >330 HP is available from 3500 to 4650 RPM, so the peak is very wide. Also explains the feeling of continuous and non-dramatic acceleration, while still going quite fast. There is no peak to reach, changing gear feels like it has no effect in acceleration.

    The middle range power is amazing when stock, now itīs from another world...
    Do you have dyno figures?

    Stage 2 or 2.5 E9X M3 S65 V8 supercharger kit for sale
    : http://www.boostaddict.com/showthrea...r-kit-for-sale

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    well when it comes to DPF less + wagner IC 335d consumption pictures say more than words Click here to enlarge
    after my trip to italy:
    done 327,8 KM
    still remaining according to the computer 756 KM
    and on the left you can see that for the 327,8 KM i only used a quarter of the tank
    Click here to enlarge

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