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Thread: DME Swap

  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lorddrinkalot Click here to enlarge
    If you have a completely new DME there is no need do code other modules than the DME.

    A new virgin DME comes with no VIN or other crab coded every stealership is able to code a new one.


    As far as I know a used DME cannot be coded with standard BMW dealer tools. I think even with ISTA/P its not possible.
    What about my situation for example:

    Pre-coded DME with vin, but a matching CAS and key fob, so an engine can be started successfully..

    is it possible for them to interact with other existing modules? (Say the bcm)

    to what extent is the locking? Is it just the vin and immob or even other modules?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lorddrinkalot Click here to enlarge
    If you have a completely new DME there is no need do code other modules than the DME.

    A new virgin DME comes with no VIN or other crab coded every stealership is able to code a new one.


    As far as I know a used DME cannot be coded with standard BMW dealer tools. I think even with ISTA/P its not possible.
    What basis do you have for this information? I realize things change between platforms, but the E46 for example, you can recode the VIN. I don't see why you couldn't do it with the E90 MSD8X with the right tools and or software or approach. Will a dealer recode a VIN on an E46? If they refuse to which I bet they do, then just proves at least on that platform that they are refusing to do so even though it can be done. Probably for good reason, theftwise.
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    Regardless, AFAIK, nothing can be VIN locked to a 'car'. A car is a chunk of metal just like the engine. Its just a matter of how many modules you're willing to replace. Ignition, Keys, CAS/EWS, DME, TCM...
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    Car Access System 3 with EWS4

    With the launch of the E92, a new electronic vehicle immobilizer. The EWS4 features an
    ultramodern encryption method with a 124 bit secrete key. Start enable involves a spe-
    cial check procedure. A random number is generated in the DME and sent to the CAS.
    The CAS calculates the result from the random number and the secrete key and sends it
    back to the DME. The DME performs the same calculations and therefore already knows
    the result. Start enable takes place when both results are identical.

    The car access system 3 with the new generation of electronic vehicle immobilizer
    EWS4 was introduced in E92 vehicles with the N52/N54 gasoline engine.

    The vehicle immobilizer consists of the ID transmitter which is identical for the vehicle
    and therefore to CAS3. CAS3 exchanges data with the DME via the CAS-bus and can-
    cels the vehicle immobilization function.

    The EWS4 is a new development and uses a new, modern encryption method. A 128
    bit long secret key is assigned to each vehicle and stored in the BMW database.

    This secrete key is known only to BMW. The secrete key is programmed and locked in
    the CAS and in the DME control unit. Once entered in the control unit, the secrete key
    can no longer be changed or deleted. This therefore means that each control unit is
    assigned to a specific vehicle.

    One control unit in the system sends an encrypted code to another control unit for the
    purpose of checking the authorization. In turn, this control unit sends back a correspond-
    ing code.

    Replacement of Control Units

    The procedure described below must be followed in order to replace a defective control
    unit (CAS/DME). The required control unit is ordered together with the necessary vehicle
    data (VIN) from the Parts Department.

    A new "blank" control unit is programmed with the corresponding program data for the
    vehicle and the secrete key from the BMW database, locked and sent to the dealer.

    The new control unit is installed in the vehicle and started.

    Note: No alignment procedure is necessary as in earlier EWS systems. Since
    the control units are assigned to the specific vehicle, replacement with
    a unit from another vehicle is not possible.


    E92 Complete Vehicle

    The electronic vehicle immobilizer consists of several components. In the E92 these
    components are the CAS3 and the DME MSV80/MSD80.

    The CAS3 contains the software for the EWS4 and, with corresponding identification of
    the ID transmitter, the enable of terminal R, 15 and 50 for the starter. The enable for the
    ignition and fuel injection systems is done by the DME.

    Both control units are connected by the K-CAN, the junction box serving as the gateway
    and the PT-CAN. Data is also exchanged on the CAS-bus. The data is always transmitted
    parallel via both bus systems.The signals that arrive first are used.

    The DME activates the fuel injection relay for the power supply of the fuel injectors. The
    DME features a direct line to the starter relay in the CAS in order to initiate the start pro-
    cedure and, if necessary, to terminate it, in the event of a PT-CAN fault or a faulty signal,
    like no engine speed signal.

    http://www.renette.dk/Bil/BMWe90/BMW...tionallity.pdf
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  5. #30
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    So there is a tool that can synchronize the DME and CAS. But considering that when you swap the DME, even from the factory, they don't swap out the CAS do they? It specifically says that one control unit checks with another control unit and that once the vin is input its not changeable.. But they don't change all the 'control units' or the CAS when doing a DME swap... I think the VIN just needs to change in the DME and the rest can be programmed or 'synchronized'.
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    Your document says exactly the same think I was saying.

    you can only use blank DME units to replace your broken one.
    And it can only be done by stealerships.
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    ok so dme+CAS *MUST* match obviously, but what about other modules? NOT to do with immobilisation?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lorddrinkalot Click here to enlarge
    Your document says exactly the same think I was saying.

    you can only use blank DME units to replace your broken one.
    And it can only be done by stealerships.
    It says Control module(s). But its a known fact that the CAS doesn't get changed out when DME is swapped. The VIN isn't burned into the CAS, that much we can know. I'm hoping for the best here. Saying its impossible is realistic in many situations but its such an absolute word. There seems to always be a way around things. Even if its an expensive hardware reverse/hacking route.
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    It says Control module(s). But its a known fact that the CAS doesn't get changed out when DME is swapped. The VIN isn't burned into the CAS, that much we can know. I'm hoping for the best here. Saying its impossible is realistic in many situations but its such an absolute word. There seems to always be a way around things. Even if its an expensive hardware reverse/hacking route.
    if the cas isn't vin locked, how does it calculate?

    actually:

    " The secrete key is programmed and locked in
    the CAS and in the DME control unit."

    cas is locked too

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by enrita Click here to enlarge
    i got a new DME , the MSD81 now and you need to recode it by supplying your VIN by the dealer upon ordering . Than recode all modules . Engine has nothing to do with DME swap.
    Also with WINKFP it's possible to update and/or swap the ECU on the N54.

    For my point of view 335i with a official performance kit (ecu, cooling system, radiator fan) and a great suspension kit (bilstein or koni) make the car IS !

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    It says Control module(s). But its a known fact that the CAS doesn't get changed out when DME is swapped. The VIN isn't burned into the CAS, that much we can know. I'm hoping for the best here. Saying its impossible is realistic in many situations but its such an absolute word. There seems to always be a way around things. Even if its an expensive hardware reverse/hacking route.
    I think we are talking about 2 different things.

    VIN is not the secrete key.

    The VIN in the DME is maybe changable but the secrete key to decode the messages sent from CAS to DME is not changeable according to this document you posted.

    So even if the VIN change is possible you wouldnt be able to start the car and drive if the DME you are using is from another car with another secrete key.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lorddrinkalot Click here to enlarge
    I think we are talking about 2 different things.

    VIN is not the secrete key.

    The VIN in the DME is maybe changable but the secrete key to decode the messages sent from CAS to DME is not changeable according to this document you posted.

    So even if the VIN change is possible you wouldnt be able to start the car and drive if the DME you are using is from another car with another secrete key.
    secret key *

    the constant mis-spelling is annoying lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    What about my situation for example:

    Pre-coded DME with vin, but a matching CAS and key fob, so an engine can be started successfully..

    is it possible for them to interact with other existing modules? (Say the bcm)

    to what extent is the locking? Is it just the vin and immob or even other modules?
    This does work. The odometer reading may be incorrect until the trip odometer gets reset, after that it should return back to the previous value.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lorddrinkalot Click here to enlarge
    I think we are talking about 2 different things.

    VIN is not the secrete key.

    The VIN in the DME is maybe changable but the secrete key to decode the messages sent from CAS to DME is not changeable according to this document you posted.

    So even if the VIN change is possible you wouldnt be able to start the car and drive if the DME you are using is from another car with another secrete key.
    http://www.autokeyprog.com/cat_doc/BMW_KeyCoder.pdf

    BMW KeyCoder software is the most powerful tool for tasks related with Car
    Access System (CAS*) which is installed in all modern BMW, Mini and Rolls-Royce
    cars. The software can perform a wide range of tasks, and all of them can be done
    via OBD-II socket in seconds without disconnecting CAS from the car.
    Why BMW KeyCoder is the best? Here are some examples:
    - Programming of key – now it’s as simple as 1-2-3! Select type of key, its
    position and start the programming!
    - Programming of key is going directly in the ignition lock! No need for
    additional programmers and preparations of keys!
    - Support of latest technologies from BMW:
    1) EWS4 Secret Key (new 128-bit synchronization with engine control unit).
    BMW documentation “says” that noone can read or write it, but we can do it
    through OBD-II socket! Surprise!

    2) SOPT (encryption of keys and synchronizations with engine control unit).
    Now the keys can be programmed even for encrypted CAS! And even with
    encrypted EWS4 Secret Key, and now it’s the first software that can do it!
    - Many very useful functions and all of them can be done via OBD-II socket!
    Last edited by klipseracer; 02-19-2013 at 12:22 AM.
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    http://www.autokeyprog.com/products.php?id=11

    BMW KeyCoder powered by Autokeyprog team

    Download user manual.
    The new BMW keycoder is the first tool in the world who can program and edit all CAS1 CAS2 CAS3 CAS3+ for BMW, MINI, ROLLES ROYES by OBD2.
    Features:


    • Read/write/save all CAS by OBD2;
    • Programming 10 keys by OBD2 from 2004 to 2010 in 10 secondes;
    • No need to downgrade CAS version updated by ISTA up to v38 (from 2010y);
    • It can program used key with PCF7942/PCF7944 if you know ISK of old key by OBD2;
    • Syncronisation CAS/EGS, CAS/DDE, CAS/ELV by OBD2;
    • Programming mielage correction by OBD2;
    • Change VIN number in all CAS module and UIF by OBD2;
    • Enable/disable EWS function in EGS module by OBD2;
    • Setting comfort access and remote control by OBD2;
    • Extract fa code from all CAS by OBD2;
    • Programming key on lastest BMW from 2010-2011 with latest technology Ews4_SK (original key must be present);
    • Programming of new key (transponder, remote control, id-transmitter (for keyless-go);
    • Programming key or transponder direclty in the ignition coil!!!;
    • Programming of used key - you can enter key data manually or you can load data from CAS EEPROM dump;
    • Recode CAS to change ammount of allowed keyless-go keys;
    • Block/unblock keys, change key memory number;
    • Read/write, VIN Number;
    • Read/write VIN in instrument cluster, LM or FRM;

    Pro version:


    • CAS editor full control over keys data (it's for advanced users and will not be used for simple jobs);
    • Key editor read/write key directly in ignition lock like hitag2 programmer;
    • Restoration of synchronization of remote control in keys if it's lost;
    • Read/write EEPROM in CAS3/3+ as it stored in mcu via OBD2;

    Car supported: E60/ E61 /E63 /E64/ E65/ E70/ E71/ E87/ E90/ E91/ E92/ E93 X6 X5
    Pretty sure this isn't supporting anyone's argument here except mine. This still may not be definitive, but I hate when people say things are 'impossible' when they are just internet forum parrots repeating things they've 'heard' and now suddenly know. if you KNOW this for a fact with real proof, experience or an inside line, then I can respect that. But until you can prove me wrong, you're just a parrot saying things that you don't really know. Its like when the guy who said because I couldn't Identify the radiator support by its technical name, he said that 'you aren't qualified to rebuild this car'. Well, I sure made him look stupid. Not to mention he never came back in that thread.
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    Just as an update, I got a reply back from to one of my emails and they are in fact capable of recoding the VIN in the DME and the secret code. But the unit costs 2300 euros. Self-defeating in my situation unless a vendor or shop had access to one.
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    Great you found a tool on the internet to steal cars with.
    Awesome. Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

    http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712717
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Just as an update, I got a reply back from to one of my emails and they are in fact capable of recoding the VIN in the DME and the secret code. But the unit costs 2300 euros. Self-defeating in my situation unless a vendor or shop had access to one.
    I found some software can read/write the ISN..aka the secret code and align the DME with CAS. I don't have enough reps to post a link.

    Perhaps it could be hacked to work with a K+DCAN cable?

    Google bmw e/f scanner.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I think the VIN just needs to change in the DME and the rest can be programmed or 'synchronized'.
    No Man. CAS and DME have 128 bit key, you can not change this key with any tool. I know just one man in Russia, who can done this.

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    Another way. You can find used CAS + DME, read 128 secret key from used CAS and change 128 bit key on you CAS. But any way you need used CAS + DME from one car.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 808AWD325xi Click here to enlarge
    I found some software can read/write the ISN..aka the secret code and align the DME with CAS. I don't have enough reps to post a link.

    Perhaps it could be hacked to work with a K+DCAN cable?

    Google bmw e/f scanner.
    This is the link I was referring to:
    http://www.ecutool.com/BMW-EF-SCANNER_10853.html

    It appears to be a knock off of this:
    https://www.avtotools.com/index.php?categoryID=200

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    It is possible to rewrite ISN the specific code for your car CAS but not the DME via OBD2 port. To virginise the DME (to make it blank like new uncoded from factory) requires EVC winols BDM 100 station. That is very advanced tool and very expensive with correct software.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by hakentt Click here to enlarge
    It is possible to rewrite ISN the specific code for your car CAS but not the DME via OBD2 port. To virginise the DME (to make it blank like new uncoded from factory) requires EVC winols BDM 100 station. That is very advanced tool and very expensive with correct software.
    How do you read Tricore processor with BDM?
    Until 2008-2009 all ECUs are supplied blank and are activated/married to the car by the dealer/independent shop using the GT1/OPS/ICOM.
    The newer technology incorporates 128 bit encryption key for each VIN is stored in the BMW server.When the dealer orders replacement ECU,the key is programmed in the ECU by BMW.The VIN is the ECU is not that important.There are many programs that are digging deep in the car computer's memory,but the overall opinion is that the encryption key cannot be changed in an ECU after it is programmed once.Some programs can read the ISN from the ECU and program it to the existing car CAS and synchronise them.The other way is to read the whole memory,which is internal in the case of Tricore processor,in a boot mode and write the memory in another ECU,or so called "cloning".There are different opinions if that could be done or not.The newest ECUS,like mine 12 X5D EDC17CP09,need a password even in boot mode,and only a handfull of programs can read the PW.
    The 3rd and most risky solution is to desolder the processor from one ECU and solder it to another.

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    damn... i guess BMW CAN fix this if a second hand DME is given to them?
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    Any solution to this problem does not include BMW AG or any official dealer.

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