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  1. #1
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    E60 M5 vs Tuned CLS500 BiTurbo

    Another great video from this guy.. Click here to enlarge



    Here are some better pics of that Wald kit..

    http://www.wald.co.jp/english/carran...218/c218.html#


    -TZ
    09' M3 AA Gen 2 Level 2 S/C
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    Past:
    07' C6 Z06
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    10' SVT Raptor 6.2
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    11' E92 335i
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    06' E60 M5 SMG
    Click here to enlarge

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    Wow...i expected the Benz to hold its own...they are ridiculously fast. What are the mods on the M5?

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    The S85 sounds amazing, minute that SMG hits 3rd/4th it just catapults forward
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    Almost looks like the e60 is on spray

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    yea from other videos ive seen I would think a tuned cls550 would hold its own. This same E60 M5 had a hard time with a tuned M5 in another video that was posted, so I don't think its spraying. But maybe something is up with the CLS550's tune.
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    Stock E60 M5 takes on a tuned Mercedes-Benz CLS550 M278 bi-turbo (CLS500 overseas) from a stop and from a roll

    This is supposedly a stock E60 M5 and BimmerBoost will give the benefit of the doubt even though the M5 just flat out runs away from the CLS550 with the twin turbocharged M278 powerplant which responds very well to modifications. The problem though is the CLS is running some crappy piggyback BenzBoost has never heard of. Renntech has gotten the M278 with their flash up to 489 wheel horsepower as the Mercedes M278 versus BMW N63 comparison article on BenzBoost shows so a good tune should beat a stock E60 M5.

    Click here to enlarge

    Even when the cars run from a stop and the CLS is able to get the better launch (automatic turbo car is much easier to launch especially when brake boosting than the E60 M5 SMG) the E60 M5 still runs it down and passes it like a freight train coming by. Whomever it is with that CLS550 needs to ditch their Benzin Module Performance Boost Box and get a real tune. Video below.


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    God damn that E60 sounds glorious.

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    That e60 is stupid fast. Very Nice. Also sounds amazing.

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    Do not underestimate the E60 S85,,,,,, its not fast ,, it is BLINDING fast

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    Yea I think a lot of people underestimate exactly how fast a E60 M5 is.. I know I did when I had my FBO 335i.. I ran into a well maintained and modded M5 and I got walk so hard I thought he was spraying and only got worse past 100mph. So now the 335i is gone and as of a month ago I own a M5 lol. Every 37K BMW issues to change the spark plugs on these cars, and it been known that these engines with old plugs and that are not maintained lose good amount of HP, so it def. crucial to stay on top of maintenance. MY FBO 335i with JB4 G5 ISO, fully catless on E85, no meth, is not even as fast as a stock M5, I think that says something. Even on race gas and map 7, I would stick to 120, then get walked, from a stock M5! Also M5 needs driver mod, huge part.
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    5soko you need to retune that 335i....

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bx tt3 Click here to enlarge
    5soko you need to retune that 335i....
    Wut

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Wut wut.. If he has a fbo jb4 g5 iso with e85 he is supposed to be right there with a stock e60 m5 no problem. I ran one with a dinan stage 2 tune and fbo with a jb+ on 1 1/2 clicks above the lowest setting and he got me by a nose in the mile and thats because i was nervous on the road we were running on (on and off full throttle). So the jb4 g5 iso should give way more power(hence the reason he needs to be re-tuned) which is the reason I went and got one if it does not then I have to go to the otherside to try out shiv's tune.... But according to what im hearing jb4 has got it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bx tt3 Click here to enlarge
    5soko you need to retune that 335i....
    He now has an E60 M5... And even a stock S85 M5/M6 will walk an 335i, ESPECIALLY from a roll. The N54 with stock turbos, will max out around 420 WHP (that's with every bolt on and an aggressive tune E85 and/or Meth). A stock S85 puts ~430 WHP at the wheels. So the WHP is relatively the same, but now you factor in the S85 being able to rev 8,250 RPMs (that's an extra 2,000 RPMs you're in gear vs. the N54) and the 7-speed SMG II (better gearing that keeps the S85 in it's power band and faster shifts), there's NO WAY a stock turbo N54 stays even.

    I know you challenged me over on E90Post, but if we get some GoPro's I'll be ready in 2 weeks after getting retuned. Very ready to find out if you're Dinan & JB+ is really as fast as you're advertising it.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    If I still have it i will most def give you a run, I live for $#@! like this... LOL. I just bought and installed a jb4 g5 iso, I succumed to all the peer pressure so now to see what that is all about. But hope you arent all talk like a few others on the other website who called me out and the never responded when I answered... LOL Guess my so called #'s werent that full of $#@!... BTW I never challenged you directly I just said anyone who feels like I was lying should just line it up let the cars do the talking.... Your a good dude and very knowledgeable. I've learn from you amongst others.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bx tt3 Click here to enlarge
    If I still have it i will most def give you a run, I live for $#@! like this... LOL. I just bought and installed a jb4 g5 iso, I succumed to all the peer pressure so now to see what that is all about.
    Haha it's usually a matter of time, chances are with just the JB4 you'll see a minor performance gain over what you were running. Chances are to really max your performance you'll need the COBB/BMS fueling flash so you can run high concentration E85 blends


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bx tt3 Click here to enlarge
    BTW I never challenged you directly I just said anyone who feels like I was lying should just line it up let the cars do the talking.... Your a good dude and very knowledgeable. I've learn from you amongst others.
    No worries & thanks for the compliments (very knowledgeable is generous lol). As long as the conditions are favorable & the Mexican highways are clear, I'm always up for some runs

    2 Wins for my COBB PTF PROtune


    And me getting my butthole blown out by LM's s/c E92 M3 Click here to enlarge
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

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    great runs... I def look forward to it. Im in mexico every other weekend but usually with the fam visiting in-laws in the E70... but just hit me up and ill try to work something out... Hopefully the jb4 pulls as hard as they say over the jb+ LOL... (sounds funny i know) Ive ran another dude with a jb4 and he couldnt keep up when i told him it was a dinan with jb+ he told everyone i was a liar and not to race me... Ill try and see if i can get the m5 race to upload it...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bx tt3 Click here to enlarge
    5soko you need to retune that 335i....
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bx tt3 Click here to enlarge
    Wut wut.. If he has a fbo jb4 g5 iso with e85 he is supposed to be right there with a stock e60 m5 no problem. I ran one with a dinan stage 2 tune and fbo with a jb+ on 1 1/2 clicks above the lowest setting and he got me by a nose in the mile and thats because i was nervous on the road we were running on (on and off full throttle). So the jb4 g5 iso should give way more power(hence the reason he needs to be re-tuned) which is the reason I went and got one if it does not then I have to go to the otherside to try out shiv's tune.... But according to what im hearing jb4 has got it.
    I was JB4 G5 ISO on Map5, I always data logged and kept my car 100%. On pump I got walked, on E85 it helped shorten the gap. On map 7 race gas, until 120 I was there, after got walked. It is what it is, I think even forum member mthis was there too to see the race gas run, pretty close until 120 then walked. Talking about a stock M5, well maintained and driven.


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    He now has an E60 M5... And even a stock S85 M5/M6 will walk an 335i, ESPECIALLY from a roll. The N54 with stock turbos, will max out around 420 WHP (that's with every bolt on and an aggressive tune E85 and/or Meth). A stock S85 puts ~430 WHP at the wheels. So the WHP is relatively the same, but now you factor in the S85 being able to rev 8,250 RPMs (that's an extra 2,000 RPMs you're in gear vs. the N54) and the 7-speed SMG II (better gearing that keeps the S85 in it's power band and faster shifts), there's NO WAY a stock turbo N54 stays even.

    I know you challenged me over on E90Post, but if we get some GoPro's I'll be ready in 2 weeks after getting retuned. Very ready to find out if you're Dinan & JB+ is really as fast as you're advertising it.
    +1 well put...
    ///M5 LCI
    "It's like the F10 is the 911 Turbo to the E60's GT3" -Pistonheads (M5 feature)

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    maybe i should sell my jb4 g5 iso and stick with the jb+... lol

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bx tt3 Click here to enlarge
    maybe i should sell my jb4 g5 iso and stick with the jb+... lol
    What does this have to do with the cars racing? Oh wait, you are talking about the other vids nevermind.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    He now has an E60 M5... And even a stock S85 M5/M6 will walk an 335i, ESPECIALLY from a roll. The N54 with stock turbos, will max out around 420 WHP (that's with every bolt on and an aggressive tune E85 and/or Meth). A stock S85 puts ~430 WHP at the wheels. So the WHP is relatively the same, but now you factor in the S85 being able to rev 8,250 RPMs (that's an extra 2,000 RPMs you're in gear vs. the N54) and the 7-speed SMG II (better gearing that keeps the S85 in it's power band and faster shifts), there's NO WAY a stock turbo N54 stays even.

    I know you challenged me over on E90Post, but if we get some GoPro's I'll be ready in 2 weeks after getting retuned. Very ready to find out if you're Dinan & JB+ is really as fast as you're advertising it.
    looking for 60-130 times, and 1/4 times... the 335i seems at least on par? - a stock E60 M5 does a.. what.. mid 10 60-130 and 12.5 1/4?

    and the 'extra in gear' is a moot point, as it's geared out... M5 at 8200rpm will be about the same as 6900 from an N54 comparing in-gear speeds (E60 M5 having 3.62 final drive vs a standard 3.08 for MT N54)

    and power BELOW redline will be higher in the n54, the M5 will have a roughly linear power increase with a flat torque curve, N54's have a much larger peak torque in the midrange providing a bit more power down low

    not to mention the 335 is a good few hundred lb lighter

    single numbers don't tell the whole story of either car.

  22. #22
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    looking for 60-130 times, and 1/4 times... the 335i seems at least on par? - a stock E60 M5 does a.. what.. mid 10 60-130 and 12.5 1/4?
    The 335 def has the weight advantage, in addition to having better TQ, but the S85 M5/M6 has significantly better top end & really won't shine until you get over 100. The SMG II extra gear is def not a moot point because it keeps the S85 in it's high RPM powerband. Specifically referring to your data, the S85 M5/M6 actually is reaching peak power at 8200 RPMs where the N54 at 6900 RPMs is well out of it's powerband (the turbos have to be tapered down to ~15psi at that RPM / OEM turbos have to start decreasing boost by 5500 RPMs)





    Once the S85 SMG II gets into 4th gear, the car is going to catapult forward while the N54 135/335 gets left it the dust because of poor gearing & lack of top end HP
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  23. #23
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The 335 def has the weight advantage, in addition to having better TQ, but the S85 M5/M6 has significantly better top end & really won't shine until you get over 100. The SMG II extra gear is def not a moot point because it keeps the S85 in it's high RPM powerband. Specifically referring to your data, the S85 M5/M6 actually is reaching peak power at 8200 RPMs where the N54 at 6900 RPMs is well out of it's powerband (the turbos have to be tapered down to ~15psi at that RPM / OEM turbos have to start decreasing boost by 5500 RPMs)

    http://youtu.be/OpQ5j8KzuwU

    http://youtu.be/7oVR41Qh7GM

    Once the S85 SMG II gets into 4th gear, the car is going to catapult forward while the N54 135/335 gets left it the dust because of poor gearing & lack of top end HP
    M5 is definitely impressive, absolutely love the S85

    N54 really needs to have a higher powerband... the only thing i don't like about it lol

    Pity an S85+transmission runs near $12k haha.. let alone ECU and other bits lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    M5 is definitely impressive, absolutely love the S85

    N54 really needs to have a higher powerband... the only thing i don't like about it lol

    Pity an S85+transmission runs near $12k haha.. let alone ECU and other bits lol
    The N54 def will benefit from a major turbo & fueling overhaul like with the Single Turbo or Vargas Stage 3s, but it'll be interesting to see A) how the internals hold-up and B) if a better, safer tune can be made with an adjusted CR. You can swap out the turbos, but don't expect a motor that's going to rev out to 8200 RPMs (like the UGR TTs). All your big HP turbo cars (Nissan GTR, Porsche 997, Toyota Supra) all redline by 7k, all are 6-cylinders & all run a fairly high CR. The biggest impact to shift the powerband shift depends on if the aftermarket hype continues to build this motor up as a Euro-2JZ + someone eventually develops new cams to be paired with a properly tuned & running single turbo.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  25. #25
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The N54 def will benefit from a major turbo & fueling overhaul like with the Single Turbo or Vargas Stage 3s, but it'll be interesting to see A) how the internals hold-up and B) if a better, safer tune can be made with an adjusted CR. You can swap out the turbos, but don't expect a motor that's going to rev out to 8200 RPMs (like the UGR TTs). All your big HP turbo cars (Nissan GTR, Porsche 997, Toyota Supra) all redline by 7k, all are 6-cylinders & all run a fairly high CR. The biggest impact to shift the powerband shift depends on if the aftermarket hype continues to build this motor up as a Euro-2JZ + someone eventually develops new cams to be paired with a properly tuned & running single turbo.
    Indeed, soon enough Click here to enlarge

    A) well 6xx ft-lb so far, probably will see more with high boost VTT3's, and MUCH higher cylinder pressures.. I doubt VFF ST has higher cylinder pressures

    B) find me one of those models at HIGH power with a 7000 redline. You'll find 2jz's are more like 9000rpm, 4g63 will be at least 8000-8500, more likely higher.. Rb30+ will br 9000 odd, rb25/26 will be 10k+

    w gtr's i'm not sure but 8000 rings a bell.

    Most will also run a 9-9.5:1 cr at most, and come 8.5-9

    the only thing stopping the n54 from revving out to 7000 (8000 with the right upgrades at least) is a turbo setup large enough to push enough air at those rpm's.. Which a good single or stage 3's shoukd do Click here to enlarge

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