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  1. #51
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
    Out of interest is the car the stage 3's are going in AT or MT? probably been stated but I can recall

    Tony mentioned having to break in the clutch so I would say MT. Click here to enlarge

  2. #52
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    Great work Tony, excited to see this thing in action.

  3. #53
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJrep335i Click here to enlarge
    Tony mentioned having to break in the clutch so I would say MT. Click here to enlarge
    ah yes now i need a quote to ship my RHD over to him!
    Mods: Cobb v3, Aquamist hfs-4, BMS DCI, AR Design DP's, ETS FMIC, ETS Charge Pipe, HKS SSQV BOV, BMS CDV, BMS OCC, BMS Clutch Stop & ptf twin disc clutch.

  4. #54
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    When you guys get this installed please provide a vid on the start up, idle, and revs

  5. #55
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    How do you not know the level 10 is going to be an upgrade?

    It seems that nobody has tested it, yet everyone says it doesn't work.
    Lost Marine & enrita both have had Level10 trans rebuild done on their cars (both which have aftermarket turbos - LM had RBs & enrita has TDs). They also drove their cars differently: LM predominately roll races & 1/4 miles while enrita track races.

    From what it seems like, the two most important components of the Level10 trans rebuild are an "upgraded" CKT Performance TQ converter & Valvebody upgrade. If enrita was willing to take logs (hopefully illustrating quick shifts & maintaining timing) and some comments on whether he feels like it's a quality upgrade (LM moved on from his 335 to an M3).

    Even if the Level10 is worthwhile, there's still two serious issues that need to be addressed:
    1. In enrita's thread regarding the Level 10 upgrade, he states that Level10 communicated that the CKT Performance TQ converter is good up to 700 Ft Lbs. Dzenno's 335 is pushing out 631 WTQ on RBs with Pump Gas + Meth. Chances are if you just added E85 or Race Gas, you'd be over 700. I also believe it's safe to assume the Vargas Stage 2 + 3s will both over 700 WTQ (especially once Meth, E85 or Race Gas is added in the mix).
    2. Even if you upgrade the physical components, the TCM (Transmission Control Module) needs to be modified to accepted the higher strength components & not limp everytime it senses the significantly higher, more aggressive TQ from the engine. Unfortunately to date, only BMW & Alpina (which basically is an unofficial branch of BMW) on the B3 GT3 335, have access to programming the TCM.


    A lot of people have suggested that a TCM reprogramming & using the 335d torque converter will be the best combination (the 335 diesel TQ converter experiences significantly higher TQ & guarantees a quality solution since it's an OEM component). BUT until someone can reprogram the TCM, it's a moot point.

    At this point, I personally have the most confidence that COBB (who's reprogrammed the GTR trans) would be the best to tackle the TCM reprogramming for both the 6AT + DCT 135/335s. Once that's addressed, it's just a process of elimination to find a power appropriate TQ converter for whatever aftermarket turbo setup you decide to go with (RBs, Vargas 1-3 and/or Single Turbos).
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  6. #56
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    Just so you know, I spoke with Ginanti and they said they could swap a DCT into a Steptronic 335i but it would be costly. Still pondering the idea of doing it just to do it and perhaps get some of the R&D and potential tooling part of the expense out of the way for anyone else interested in going that route once the clutch pack situation is settled. For basically 100% of individuals it would definitely be better to swap the car for a 335is, however that is not of interest in my situation at the moment.

  7. #57
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Lost Marine & enrita both have had Level10 trans rebuild done on their cars (both which have aftermarket turbos - LM had RBs & enrita has TDs). They also drove their cars differently: LM predominately roll races & 1/4 miles while enrita track races.

    From what it seems like, the two most important components of the Level10 trans rebuild are an "upgraded" CKT Performance TQ converter & Valvebody upgrade. If enrita was willing to take logs (hopefully illustrating quick shifts & maintaining timing) and some comments on whether he feels like it's a quality upgrade (LM moved on from his 335 to an M3).

    Even if the Level10 is worthwhile, there's still two serious issues that need to be addressed:
    1. In enrita's thread regarding the Level 10 upgrade, he states that Level10 communicated that the CKT Performance TQ converter is good up to 700 Ft Lbs. Dzenno's 335 is pushing out 631 WTQ on RBs with Pump Gas + Meth. Chances are if you just added E85 or Race Gas, you'd be over 700. I also believe it's safe to assume the Vargas Stage 2 + 3s will both over 700 WTQ (especially once Meth, E85 or Race Gas is added in the mix).
    2. Even if you upgrade the physical components, the TCM (Transmission Control Module) needs to be modified to accepted the higher strength components & not limp everytime it senses the significantly higher, more aggressive TQ from the engine. Unfortunately to date, only BMW & Alpina (which basically is an unofficial branch of BMW) on the B3 GT3 335, have access to programming the TCM.


    A lot of people have suggested that a TCM reprogramming & using the 335d torque converter will be the best combination (the 335 diesel TQ converter experiences significantly higher TQ & guarantees a quality solution since it's an OEM component). BUT until someone can reprogram the TCM, it's a moot point.

    At this point, I personally have the most confidence that COBB (who's reprogrammed the GTR trans) would be the best to tackle the TCM reprogramming for both the 6AT + DCT 135/335s. Once that's addressed, it's just a process of elimination to find a power appropriate TQ converter for whatever aftermarket turbo setup you decide to go with (RBs, Vargas 1-3 and/or Single Turbos).
    Both LM and Enrita haven't had any issues though. So that would mean that it is, infact an upgrade

    So you didn't answer my question, who has tested and proven the Level 10 option doesn't work?




  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Both LM and Enrita haven't had any issues though. So that would mean that it is, infact an upgrade

    So you didn't answer my question, who has tested and proven the Level 10 option doesn't work?
    My only issue with Level 10 is this....How do we know that a brand spankin new transmission wouldn't still hold up for say another, 50k miles tuned like this? Transmissions deteriorate over time to a certain degree, so a brand new transmission plus higher power output may still hold up relatively well for a while, but nobody really knows. So to say that the Level 10 work holds up therefore it is an upgrade isn't necessarily true when there isn't anything to compare it to, not even a stock rebuild.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Both LM and Enrita haven't had any issues though. So that would mean that it is, infact an upgrade

    So you didn't answer my question, who has tested and proven the Level 10 option doesn't work?
    There isn't any data or proof that it is a legit upgrade and not just an OEM-spec rebuild, which would hold together, but is still not an upgrade -- Ex: How Drew is replacing clutches every 10k on his DCT VT3 (OEM replacement ≠ "upgrade"). IF enrita were to provide data logs (like I said) that illustrate timing maintained through every gear (especially because he's running a PTF ProTune).

    AND even if it is an "upgrade", are you really gonna spend $4.5k (plus shipping) on a trans that's hit the component limits when you add RBs/Vargas Stages 2s on just Pump Gas & Meth?? Combining an engine producing 650 WTQ with a trans that's good up to 700 WTQ is not going to last, especially after some aggressive launches, track and street driving. I understand there's the BMW tax, but if I'm gonna spend multiple stacks on an upgrade, I wanna know I have a nice "safety margin" between what the car's producing in "kill mode" and what the physical limitations of the trans are.
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  10. #60
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    There isn't any data or proof that it is a legit upgrade and not just an OEM-spec rebuild, which would hold together, but is still not an upgrade -- Ex: How Drew is replacing clutches every 10k on his DCT VT3 (OEM replacement ≠ "upgrade"). IF enrita were to provide data logs (like I said) that illustrate timing maintained through every gear (especially because he's running a PTF ProTune).

    AND even if it is an "upgrade", are you really gonna spend $4.5k (plus shipping) on a trans that's hit the component limits when you add RBs/Vargas Stages 2s on just Pump Gas & Meth?? Combining an engine producing 650 WTQ with a trans that's good up to 700 WTQ is not going to last, especially after some aggressive launches, track and street driving. I understand there's the BMW tax, but if I'm gonna spend multiple stacks on an upgrade, I wanna know I have a nice "safety margin" between what the car's producing in "kill mode" and what the physical limitations of the trans are.
    I could be wrong but isn't dzenno the only one to hit such a high torque number which was mainly because he had all that headwork done?

  11. #61
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by boosted5 Click here to enlarge
    I could be wrong but isn't dzenno the only one to hit such a high torque number which was mainly because he had all that headwork done?
    That power/torque Dzenno made is almost certainly because of the boost he was running. 23psi(IIRC) in the mid range on RBs is a recipe for MONSTER torque.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    There isn't any data or proof that it is a legit upgrade and not just an OEM-spec rebuild, which would hold together, but is still not an upgrade -- Ex: How Drew is replacing clutches every 10k on his DCT VT3 (OEM replacement ≠ "upgrade"). IF enrita were to provide data logs (like I said) that illustrate timing maintained through every gear (especially because he's running a PTF ProTune).

    AND even if it is an "upgrade", are you really gonna spend $4.5k (plus shipping) on a trans that's hit the component limits when you add RBs/Vargas Stages 2s on just Pump Gas & Meth?? Combining an engine producing 650 WTQ with a trans that's good up to 700 WTQ is not going to last, especially after some aggressive launches, track and street driving. I understand there's the BMW tax, but if I'm gonna spend multiple stacks on an upgrade, I wanna know I have a nice "safety margin" between what the car's producing in "kill mode" and what the physical limitations of the trans are.
    Ok but saying that it isn't an upgrade when there is no data to prove either way is wrong. You're counting it out, before its tried.

    and as there are no other options, you get what you get.




  13. #63
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    There isn't any data or proof that it is a legit upgrade and not just an OEM-spec rebuild, which would hold together, but is still not an upgrade -- Ex: How Drew is replacing clutches every 10k on his DCT VT3 (OEM replacement ≠ "upgrade"). IF enrita were to provide data logs (like I said) that illustrate timing maintained through every gear (especially because he's running a PTF ProTune).

    AND even if it is an "upgrade", are you really gonna spend $4.5k (plus shipping) on a trans that's hit the component limits when you add RBs/Vargas Stages 2s on just Pump Gas & Meth?? Combining an engine producing 650 WTQ with a trans that's good up to 700 WTQ is not going to last, especially after some aggressive launches, track and street driving. I understand there's the BMW tax, but if I'm gonna spend multiple stacks on an upgrade, I wanna know I have a nice "safety margin" between what the car's producing in "kill mode" and what the physical limitations of the trans are.
    That is true, I'm more Active on the other forum, but i did blow my trans i launched it aLOT and did plenty of highway pulls before i got RBs, after i got RBs i my trans started slipping like crazy. long story short i just happened to be recording when i blew my trans.

    anyways my mods.
    FBO, RBs, JB4 g5 iso, BMS FLASH, 100% meth cm 14, walboro. e85/93

    @ 2:01 is was a 2nd gear pull/log it was okay you cant really tell how fast the car is going or get a feel for it but it pulled strong.

    @2:11 it felt like it slipped bad but no transmission codes, and it drove fine.

    @4:20 was a 3rd gear pull/log +FML

    @4:53 i figured my life is over and called a tow truck



    What I'm doing now is sending my Destroyed, full of burned up clutch and metal VB to level 10 for an overhaul and upgrade, i know that would be is helpful The VB according to Pat from level 10 told me 5th gear will be fixed and it will shift harder saving my clutches and thats exactly what i called to ask for. then for coding sake i didn't wanna just upgrade the VB from the used trans i got. then also sending the TQ converter to to level ten for a rebuild and maybe raise the stall abit.

    In conclusion, i couldn't find anyone sure to code a used trans for me. so i bought a used one and just swapping the VB from my car to the used trans and TQ converter will get upgraded as well. as for the clutch paks I'm not so sure of the level 10 clutch kit. so I'm just gonna wait and see. then i will get the blown trans i pull out of my car built in the future when there are more options or a seriously proven build.

    Click here to enlarge


    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge


    Regular low miles USed VB vs My Beat to $#@! VB
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    good VB
    Click here to enlarge

    BAD VB Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

    another angle
    Click here to enlarge


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  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Ok but saying that it isn't an upgrade when there is no data to prove either way is wrong. You're counting it out, before its tried.

    and as there are no other options, you get what you get.

    you might wanna check these guys out seems a bit more beefy then level 10 IMO.

    http://www.btamotorsports.com.au/ind...for-fg-falcon/
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    Great video!

    Mine never slip's like that, it just missed the 2nd shift sometimes, it will like (not over rev) but I will shift, and it will try to shift, and than downshift or it just wont shift in the first place.

    Always the 1-2nd shift or the 2-3rd shift

    This only happens after it gets hot after 2-3 hard launches/pulls




  16. #66
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Figured I would post these since you cant see any of it except the top pipe once its installed. Unlike other shops that announced turbo kits and a year later you are wondering where it is, with no updates. Less then 4 months from announcement to completion. In she goes......
    Looking absolutely great...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Great video!

    Mine never slip's like that, it just missed the 2nd shift sometimes, it will like (not over rev) but I will shift, and it will try to shift, and than downshift or it just wont shift in the first place.

    Always the 1-2nd shift or the 2-3rd shift

    This only happens after it gets hot after 2-3 hard launches/pulls
    the video wasn't great when it happened Click here to enlarge lol
    but i cant even remember what it used to shift like...but im so exited to get the trans done Click here to enlarge
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  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammy_0559 Click here to enlarge
    the video wasn't great when it happened Click here to enlarge lol
    but i cant even remember what it used to shift like...but im so exited to get the trans done Click here to enlarge
    ok im bugging you now, did yours do the same mis shift thing, as it was going out?

    nevermind i re-read your message, its 1am and im tired, thank you for the video and best of luck with the new tranny




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    @klipseracer

    I had a brand new trans put in, shortly after break-in I attempted to push 550 wtq at it using a large nitrous jet, FBO on stock turbos at 18psi. It slipped in 2nd gear under the load pretty consistently when the trans was hot, 3rd/4th were OK and I had some odd misfires in 5th gear. I didn't know what it was at the time and it may have been the trans, now that it sounds like many 6 AT have issues with high power in 5th gear.

    IMO after having talked with many trans shops, and Level 10, the upgrade they have is more like a rebuild with a beefed up valvebody and modified torque converter, but for this ZF unit we have it's as good as it gets. The valvebody upgrade is pretty decent with the changes they make, and couple that with a new torque converter setup more to how you'll be launching it and the trans will do much better. The clutch packs as far as I know are straight OEM, so if you're still slipping those even with the upgraded valve body, then you'll be rebuilding the trans pretty often OEM or Level 10 Click here to enlarge

    Still going to need something custom for anything over 600whp/600wtq, when I was talking to Level 10, and when LM had them do his trans, we were both talking to them about 500-550whp 500-550 wtq power ranges.

  20. #70
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    can't wait for #s...atleast you were rockin out to feddie when it blew :p
    Last edited by ChuckD05; 02-11-2013 at 03:35 AM.
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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    Wasn't somebody (Sikh) looking into 517trans.com for AT upgrade? Supposedly an ex Level 10 person.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by jpsimon Click here to enlarge
    so very awesome. But what's most amazing is this has all gotten done while we're still waiting for the relatively simple stage 2's......
    First, congrats Tony! Looks like you are ready to rock! Great!

    Jpsimon, the simplicity goes the other way around. Stg3 is the simple one, Stg2 takes a lot longer as one needs to plan and coordinate a lot in order to manage to work under the strict limitations set by the stock turbo frames and the build to match all the other hardware in a plug and play fashion. Well, you've seen it yourself, this is not a quick or simple job.

    Now have a look at the stg3. All that was done, was: 1. weld a quick replica of stock like simple exhaust manifold, 2. weld the DPs, and 3. throw in some almost straight inlet tubes. That's just one long weekend if you are a skilled welder? Or let's make it three weekends, one for mani, another for DPs and third for inlets? Tony, wasn't that all that you had to do? @VargasTurboTech

    So, another way of looking at this whole thing is that putting the stg3 together in the very beginning could have been done a lot quicker if Tony didn't need to think about the lower stages first...

    P.S. I remember, Tony ordered also flanges and adapters for stg3.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    There isn't any data or proof that it is a legit upgrade and not just an OEM-spec rebuild, which would hold together, but is still not an upgrade -- Ex: How Drew is replacing clutches every 10k on his DCT VT3 (OEM replacement ≠ "upgrade"). IF enrita were to provide data logs (like I said) that illustrate timing maintained through every gear (especially because he's running a PTF ProTune).

    AND even if it is an "upgrade", are you really gonna spend $4.5k (plus shipping) on a trans that's hit the component limits when you add RBs/Vargas Stages 2s on just Pump Gas & Meth?? Combining an engine producing 650 WTQ with a trans that's good up to 700 WTQ is not going to last, especially after some aggressive launches, track and street driving. I understand there's the BMW tax, but if I'm gonna spend multiple stacks on an upgrade, I wanna know I have a nice "safety margin" between what the car's producing in "kill mode" and what the physical limitations of the trans are.
    i never flatlined on my car on the IA08S DME so we will see with the new DME and engine i got , when my trans started to fail was slipping bad in 2nd gear , 3rd and would not shift into 5th.
    07 335i AT - MOTIV 750 - MHD BMS E85 - BMS PI - JB4G5 - Okada Coils - NGK 5992 Plugs - Helix IC - Stett CP - Custom midpipes with 100 HJS Cats - Bastuck Quad - PSS10 - QUAIFE LSD - BMS OCC - Forge DVs - AR OC - ALCON BBK - M3 Chassi - Dinan CP - Velocity M rear Toe arms - Advan RZ-DF - LUX H8 - Level 10 AT upgrade
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by amclint Click here to enlarge
    @klipseracer

    I had a brand new trans put in, shortly after break-in I attempted to push 550 wtq at it using a large nitrous jet, FBO on stock turbos at 18psi. It slipped in 2nd gear under the load pretty consistently when the trans was hot, 3rd/4th were OK and I had some odd misfires in 5th gear. I didn't know what it was at the time and it may have been the trans, now that it sounds like many 6 AT have issues with high power in 5th gear.

    IMO after having talked with many trans shops, and Level 10, the upgrade they have is more like a rebuild with a beefed up valvebody and modified torque converter, but for this ZF unit we have it's as good as it gets. The valvebody upgrade is pretty decent with the changes they make, and couple that with a new torque converter setup more to how you'll be launching it and the trans will do much better. The clutch packs as far as I know are straight OEM, so if you're still slipping those even with the upgraded valve body, then you'll be rebuilding the trans pretty often OEM or Level 10 Click here to enlarge

    Still going to need something custom for anything over 600whp/600wtq, when I was talking to Level 10, and when LM had them do his trans, we were both talking to them about 500-550whp 500-550 wtq power ranges.
    Good to know, thanks... So I guess all we can do is wait for more upgrades to be done.

  25. #75
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    Turbo setup looks sweet. Valve body upgrade does too. I think I'll need both. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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