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  1. #26
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    1 side of mine was shot... no springy left. The other side was still working. The axial play was good though. It still worked and there was no obvious sign of its demise, except for a little noisier... especially at shut off. Maybe some signs trying to shift smoothly, but spirited driving it performed fine.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    1 side of mine was shot... no springy left. The other side was still working. The axial play was good though. It still worked and there was no obvious sign of its demise, except for a little noisier... especially at shut off. Maybe some signs trying to shift smoothly, but spirited driving it performed fine.
    How many miles on yours and how do you use your car (1/4 mile, etc)?

    Thanks

    Neil

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    So I've been thinking a bit about this and I've taken a few "milestone" threads in consideration. It may be nothing, it may be my imagination but here is what I came up with:

    It was not until the N54 platform got into the high hp/ high-torque numbers till we started seeing drive line problems! In the beginning it was the OEM clutches slipping. We started upgrading those. Then we started tearing up half-axles due to massive wheel hop. We now have aftermarket ones that do not twist up and shred. To eliminate wheel hop we added aftermarket rear subframe bushings, toe arms, differential bushings and lock kits. Recently, we started tearing up through drive shafts. So now we have after market drive shafts. Even more recently the hot topic is flywheels. When we upgrade this and we push the platform further, who knows what else will start crapping out. Perhaps we'll start tearing through transmission mounts...

    Now, if you follow the bread crumbs (if you can call it this) you will arrive at the conclusion that there are a lot of twisting forces that are untamed and uncontrolled which result in vibrations of some sort. As we are strengthening one drive line component, the next one down the line is getting affected.

    Granted, this is not a mass effect in the entire N54 platform. You would agree with me that the vast majority of N54 people don't drive their cars very hard all the time. In fact I'll venture a guess that a lot of people are still grannying their cars for the most part. I am definitely in this category. There are only a few selected privileged people here who truly push the platform to its limits.

    It is with those people we tend to see those issues and while they may not be wide spread, they should be paid attention to as they are a precursor of what's to come.
    From all the things I've lost,
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  4. #29
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    ^That's the natural evolution of just about every platform.

    This is just my line of thinking on why some people are seeing failures and others are not(aside from the obvious reason of some people just drive their cars harder than others): everything that is made today is made to a manufacturer standard or specification. Sometimes a part is right on the edge of being acceptable or up to spec and then a judgment call is made by a supervisor on whether to OK the part or not. Usually it will be OK'd because it saves the manufacturer money and because the standards/specs have a built in safety margin. Unfortunately for us, we are pushing the parts well beyond that safety margin so what would be "fine" for a stock car isn't going to hold up to the power we make or the abuse we put it through. Sometimes you just end up with a part made monday morning or last thing friday afternoon...
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  5. #30
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    Never had my hands on one to see how hard it is to tear apart but it sounds like the DMFW just needs a spring upgrade. Since this seems to be a wear item on BMW is there any other company that sells parts for DMFW's? Maybe there's some better springs that will work and not fall apart.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Then we started tearing up half-axles due to massive wheel hop. We now have aftermarket ones that do not twist up and shred. To eliminate wheel hop we added aftermarket rear subframe bushings, toe arms, differential bushings and lock kits. Recently, we started tearing up through drive shafts. So now we have after market drive shafts.
    How many of us is running upgraded half-axles? What about drive shafts, differential bushings or lock kits? Not too many compared to the number of tuned N54s.

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Not easy on my end thinking about $2k+ i just spent on a new dmfw and the hpf clutch. Question is do I want to risk my feet for $2k. Risk is very real or so it seems. Wish we had the steel flywheel earlier Click here to enlargeClick here to enlarge
    PM Rick for his assessment. Axial play and both springs totally shot.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by brusk Click here to enlarge
    Never had my hands on one to see how hard it is to tear apart but it sounds like the DMFW just needs a spring upgrade. Since this seems to be a wear item on BMW is there any other company that sells parts for DMFW's? Maybe there's some better springs that will work and not fall apart.
    These are made by LUK, you are best to contact them directly. By the way if you get an engineer on the horn ask him what HP/TQ figures the OEM is rated for Click here to enlarge Bet we'd all be interested in -those- figures.

    @vasillalov in my 07 I swapped out the driver's side engine mount for the 335is version, this made an improvement.

    I'm putting UUC 'RED Isolated' trans mounts in with my clutch job. I'll need to source another 335is engine mount for long term.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

  8. #33
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    I also have the IS passenger side engine mount..i wouldn't go with those tranny mounts though, you'll get a ton of NVH...go with black UUC rubber, its ok
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I also have the IS passenger side engine mount..i wouldn't go with those tranny mounts though, you'll get a ton of NVH...go with black UUC rubber, its ok
    :[ Too late, if I can't live with it I'll order another set. Thanks for the heads up.
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

  10. #35
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    Some failure my be attributable to driving style, clutch feathering on launch super heating the unit causing fatigue. Before I pulled out a clutch that was performing well, since scatter shields donít look to be available for the car, I would get a ballistics blanket for the bell housing.
    Kevin
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I also have the IS passenger side engine mount..i wouldn't go with those tranny mounts though, you'll get a ton of NVH...go with black UUC rubber, its ok
    What do the mount enforcer cups do? Did you go with those too?
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    What do the mount enforcer cups do? Did you go with those too?
    The enforcers basically keep the bushings from moving laterally E.G. from G forces, the strength of the bushing material dictates damping of NVH, resistance to axial movement (torquing) and resistance to failure.

    I haven't yet seen a review of the red isolated trans mounts, I'll capture a video of them after my stuff is all buttoned up.
    FWIW I didn't think the enforcer's would do much with a harder material like the red poly.
    If you're going with black rubber I'd definitely suggest running enforcers.

    However if I were you I'd suggest waiting until I get mine installed before deciding Click here to enlarge
    LEMANS BLUE M-TECH E92->PROCEDE REV3::ETS 7" FMIC::RACELAND DPS::WAVETRAC DIFF::DEFIV DIFF LOCKDOWN::DEFIV OCC::DEFIV INTAKE::RB PCV

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    These are made by LUK, you are best to contact them directly.
    Sent them a message, got a short response saying they only make factory replacement items. I had asked if it would be possible to get the 1M lightweight model in the earlier bolt pattern and with heavier springs for a higher torque rating. Didn't even entertain the idea so far.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    The enforcers basically keep the bushings from moving laterally E.G. from G forces, the strength of the bushing material dictates damping of NVH, resistance to axial movement (torquing) and resistance to failure.

    I haven't yet seen a review of the red isolated trans mounts, I'll capture a video of them after my stuff is all buttoned up.
    FWIW I didn't think the enforcer's would do much with a harder material like the red poly.
    If you're going with black rubber I'd definitely suggest running enforcers.

    However if I were you I'd suggest waiting until I get mine installed before deciding Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for the info. I'll prob go with the Black ones since I fall under the "street car that sees track use." But will wait for your review before I make the purchase Click here to enlarge
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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  15. #40
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    6 out of 6 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    I dissected the DMFW today. Here's some pictures with commentary....
    Click here to enlarge
    Here's the 50lb(with clutch) wiggly beast...I first drilled the 6 rivets out (yes, rivets...get used to seeing that word because that's the only thing that holds these bad boys together...).I then popped off the cast iron flywheel face, which has many undesirable/easily breakable spots (yellow paint),but oh, the fun doesn't stop there. Let's continue...
    Click here to enlarge
    Here's the dual mass unit itself,less flywheel. Riveted front to back with an electronically fused seam just below the ring gear. note the opposing divets, they're a clue to the awesomeness that lies beneath...Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Whole lots of stamped steel,rivets and grease...and springs...lots of em! Here's how it works-each side has two tabs that engage the springs..well, part of the springs...the empty spots in the springs are where the TWO tabs go, four "tabs" total, one pair on each side. whoa. so, breakage of a spring(these haven't broken yet they've just just relaxed as far as i can tell, although there was a ton of rotational slack,way over a healthy DMFW would have) would allow it to "over-clock,pushing tabs over broken spring mess,ballooning the assembly and "bang"-that's fail scenario #1. another part i could see breaking was the legs of the flywheel itself(yellow paint in previous picture). It could also shear the rivets,the crank bolts only retain that hot mess of springs and grease to the crank.
    So, considering that it's a flexible,springy,greasy mess connects to the actual clutch via rivets only, one may ask "what keeps it centered and controls radial play?"...simple this nylon bushing lol...
    Click here to enlarge
    yikes....straight to the scrap pile...no dice in the realm of performance.

  16. #41
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    Thanks a lot for that.
    Good thing my Steel SMFW is on its way.
    BMW 335i xDrive MT
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    Thanks rick. I'll be pulling my dmfw soon. No way i'm staying with it, period
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Thanks rick. I'll be pulling my dmfw soon. No way i'm staying with it, period
    After peering inside it, I would agree that it would be wise to lose that thing asap. Feet are good.Click here to enlarge

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    Are there any after market DMFW units out there for our cars? What about the M3 flywheel?

    It looks like when upgrading the clutch, it will be better to swap the flywheel as well as a whole package since you are already in there...
    From all the things I've lost,
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Are there any after market DMFW units out there for our cars? What about the M3 flywheel?

    It looks like when upgrading the clutch, it will be better to swap the flywheel as well as a whole package since you are already in there...
    There was some chat about the 1M Flywheel fitting... Just ditch it and deal with a bit of chatter. It's not like you can hear it in the cabin.. besides if it bothers you that much you can raise the idle point to where you don't hear it any more.

    * Rattle not chatter.
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  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    Sent them a message, got a short response saying they only make factory replacement items. I had asked if it would be possible to get the 1M lightweight model in the earlier bolt pattern and with heavier springs for a higher torque rating. Didn't even entertain the idea so far.
    I tried on my end as well. Same thing they will sell you an OEM replacement, won't sell any parts, won't give any ideas of what may or may not work and the max HP/Torque ratings are set by the auto manufacturer.
    2008 135i - Cobb AP, JB4 G5 w/2Step&FSB, MS DP's, Berk street exhaust, AMS IC, VTT Inlets, UR Intake, ER CP w/Tial BOV, Spec 3+ & Steel FW, CDV delete, Quaife LSD, DSS Axles, M3 control arms, M3 rear SF bushings, M3 Trans bushings, SS brake lines. Pics

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Thanks rick. I'll be pulling my dmfw soon. No way i'm staying with it, period
    Why switch camps so quickly? If you aren't having issues, and didn't want the chatter, I would stay the course.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by uniter Click here to enlarge
    There was some chat about the 1M Flywheel fitting... Just ditch it and deal with a bit of chatter. It's not like you can hear it in the cabin.. besides if it bothers you that much you can raise the idle point to where you don't hear it any more.

    * Rattle not chatter.
    While a good idea that many have suggested, I haven't seen anyone report doing this and being successful.
    Change is constant

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by vasillalov Click here to enlarge
    Are there any after market DMFW units out there for our cars? What about the M3 flywheel?

    It looks like when upgrading the clutch, it will be better to swap the flywheel as well as a whole package since you are already in there...

    m3 flywheel is an entirely different unit. The M3s utilize a twin disc clutch from the factory...youd have to mount the complete assembly to the 335, and even then I think the bolt pattern/offset on the crank is different.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    FYI on SPEC clutches, particularly their Customer Service Dept, I'm awaiting a resolution still. Moving forward, but very slow progress.

    http://bimmerboost.com/showthread.ph...MFW-slipping-!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    I mean makes sense, all the people who drive their cars on the track with no issues posted, but you happened to have one and now the DMFW ticking time bomb. Again not saying the SW steel isn't an upgrade. But seems to be a pretty limited case to throw out a blanket statement like that. Many many people drive their cars hard with no issues. SM flywheels are noisy enough for people to not want them on a car they use as a DD and a weekend warrior track car
    Agree 100 % Been FBO Tune SINCE 2007, tracked and dragged and never no of this crap.
    Yes now I have a Spec clutch, but OEM was still good for years.
    Cobb tuned, spec2+, wavetrac, DCI, ARdp's, AA fmic, forge DV's, M3 links & Sways, bbs lm's, bunch of exterior mods, and one happy BMW driver

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