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  1. #126
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    +1. that is all i was saying. Yes, obviously you're going to get just pump numbers first while tuning. less variables. The you'll tune the other fuels. My comments were really directed at the people that said they wanted pump gas only because they weren't going to run any of the other fuels, strictly pump gas for them. Well, this kit may not be for you then. This isn't an RB26DETT or a 2JZxxx with low compression and great aftermarket fuel systems that can put down 800HP on pump gas. This is a high compression, fuel system limited N54 that is going to suck on pump gas. It's going to be super laggy and have a $#@! boost curve. This kit on pump with the current fuel system upgrades will get smashed by a FBO + meth RB car. Just saying, if you have never driven a big turbo car, especially on pump gas you may want to rethink getting this if your intention is to run it solely on pump gas. You'll just be mad at the car and it'll really be your own fault.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Hahahaha. +1. I am not saying they shouldn't be capable of running 91. That's a given. My point is it doesn't really matter compared to the E85/meth numbers. All the 91 numbers are going to tell you is that an RB car could pull your ass if its set up right. Hey, more information is always better, I just am not sure what its worth.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  2. #127
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Just FYI, maybe where you live sucks regarding modern infrastruture development. I live in Phoenix and alternative fuel pumps are everywhere.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    Long Island is loaded with e85 stations... Kind of odd Jersey doesnt have em
    NJ has 2 stations that publicly retail E85 -- One's in West Orange (and if you know anything about NJ, you don't wanna hang in W. Orange too long with a BMW) and at the Newark Airport. Otherwise you're going into the NYC surrounding area or Philadelphia. Just checking off Sunoco's website of retailers who sell 100 octane out of a pump, there's 14 in NJ (a few public stations & all the notable race tracks). This doesn't include performance shops like ACM or Undercover Performance who probably maintain small race fuel supply on their shelves.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  3. #128
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    Thank the lord someone gets it.

  4. #129
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    Yeah, that's pretty weird. I can't find unleaded race gas here to save my life but I have 3 e85 pumps in my little town and a shop that sells meth right down the street.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    NJ has 2 stations that publicly retail E85 -- One's in West Orange (and if you know anything about NJ, you don't wanna hang in W. Orange too long with a BMW) and at the Newark Airport. Otherwise you're going into the NYC surrounding area or Philadelphia. Just checking off Sunoco's website of retailers who sell 100 octane out of a pump, there's 14 in NJ (a few public stations & all the notable race tracks). This doesn't include performance shops like ACM or Undercover Performance who probably maintain small race fuel supply on their shelves.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  5. #130
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Not sure if you realize why RB's and similar stage 2 hybrids have the limits they do, its the TINY turbine housing they use. This is why they spool so fast and also why they run out of breath so early. The whole point of going to true upgraded twins is to get rid of this bottleneck, expecting them spool like turbos with a tiny turbine housings makes no sense.
    alright... agreed 100% w this comment

    but now it would be logical to ask; what are the obvious advantages of this over the single?
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  6. #131
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, that's pretty weird. I can't find unleaded race gas here to save my life but I have 3 e85 pumps in my little town and a shop that sells meth right down the street.
    I mean, think about who buys E85? Maybe the occasional FlexFuel Chevy/Ford driver whos looking to save a buck, but otherwise I'd say the majority of users are performance enthusiasts. It's not like bio-diesel where it's recycled, significantly cleaner & cheaper for trucks to use.

    The other "problem" is that E85 is going to be loosing the govt. subsidy funding, so expect the price to increase. E85 is a "wonder" fuel, but until an aftermarket fueling option materializes, we'll be able to get more performance out of petroleum-based race fuels (MS109, Q/C16, etc).

    Watch this video & fast forward to 13:00 where the Koenigsegg owner talks about the Agera R's fueling system.

    He specifically mentions that if you ran the car on petroleum based gas, the fueling system is good for over 2,000 HP, but if you run on E85 the fuel system gets maxed out at 1,200 HP. Currently the N54 is facing the same problem (on a much smaller scale), which is why I'm considering another PTF ProTune that will be developed for strictly MS109 use. Until we see a substantial upgrade in the fueling, the truth potential won't even be revealed -- Not on the RBs since we still can't run 100% E85 on those, and most certainly not on the Vargas Stage 3s.
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
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    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  7. #132
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    I mean, think about who buys E85? Maybe the occasional FlexFuel Chevy/Ford driver whos looking to save a buck, but otherwise I'd say the majority of users are performance enthusiasts. It's not like bio-diesel where it's recycled, significantly cleaner & cheaper for trucks to use.

    The other "problem" is that E85 is going to be loosing the govt. subsidy funding, so expect the price to increase. E85 is a "wonder" fuel, but until an aftermarket fueling option materializes, we'll be able to get more performance out of petroleum-based race fuels (MS109, Q/C16, etc).

    Watch this video & fast forward to 13:00 where the Koenigsegg owner talks about the Agera R's fueling system.
    http://youtu.be/qp_qxKWMsVw
    He specifically mentions that if you ran the car on petroleum based gas, the fueling system is good for over 2,000 HP, but if you run on E85 the fuel system gets maxed out at 1,200 HP. Currently the N54 is facing the same problem (on a much smaller scale), which is why I'm considering another PTF ProTune that will be developed for strictly MS109 use. Until we see a substantial upgrade in the fueling, the truth potential won't even be revealed -- Not on the RBs since we still can't run 100% E85 on those, and most certainly not on the Vargas Stage 3s.
    Since both SAAB and Volvo got sold to the chinese this is now our only truly Swedish car manufacturer Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    997.1 tt
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  8. #133
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    Agreed. I just spent almost $3k on a new fuel system. I'm on 100% e85 and it's good to 800HP. On a gasoline type fuel it'd be good for 1500HP. The government subsidy for the ethanol based fuels is a good point too, it's interesting to see if it'll be renewed or not. Guess it really depends on where you're located and what best fits your needs/abilities. That's why I like to have the access to many different maps or have a JB4 that does it all for you Click here to enlarge With all of this being said, I whish i had went meth instead of e85, i would have saved myself a bunch of money and not had to worry about road trips on anything else.

    This kit on high boost on either e85, race gas, or meth is going to be crazy fast!!!!!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    I mean, think about who buys E85? Maybe the occasional FlexFuel Chevy/Ford driver whos looking to save a buck, but otherwise I'd say the majority of users are performance enthusiasts. It's not like bio-diesel where it's recycled, significantly cleaner & cheaper for trucks to use.

    The other "problem" is that E85 is going to be loosing the govt. subsidy funding, so expect the price to increase. E85 is a "wonder" fuel, but until an aftermarket fueling option materializes, we'll be able to get more performance out of petroleum-based race fuels (MS109, Q/C16, etc).

    Watch this video & fast forward to 13:00 where the Koenigsegg owner talks about the Agera R's fueling system.
    http://youtu.be/qp_qxKWMsVw
    He specifically mentions that if you ran the car on petroleum based gas, the fueling system is good for over 2,000 HP, but if you run on E85 the fuel system gets maxed out at 1,200 HP. Currently the N54 is facing the same problem (on a much smaller scale), which is why I'm considering another PTF ProTune that will be developed for strictly MS109 use. Until we see a substantial upgrade in the fueling, the truth potential won't even be revealed -- Not on the RBs since we still can't run 100% E85 on those, and most certainly not on the Vargas Stage 3s.
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  9. #134
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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    From what i've seen in the last few years... not that I like it but just as a fact of life... Meth seems to be the way to go on this platform although I have yet to see a Cobb car running with Meth... hence we run into a 3rd paradox
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  10. #135
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    Looks great, canít wait to see the results after some tuning.

    I am a little confused with all the hubbub over the fuel. After they are installed, we will quickly know these turboes fit in the car without causing space and heat issues and are working properly with the ecu (I donít think we are expecting much issues). Correct me if I am wrong, but once you are able to tune boost, timing and AFR successfully at one fuel time, the unique characteristics of the turboes will be considered and implemented in that map. After that, to change fuel will just be some tweaking of boost, timing and AFR to increase power safely?
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  11. #136
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Since both SAAB and Volvo got sold to the chinese this is now our only truly Swedish car manufacturer Click here to enlarge
    Def not a bad flagship to represent Sweden. Without a doubt Koenigsegg & Pagani are the top 2 companies for the quality of materials & craftsmanship that go into their cars.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    Agreed. I just spent almost $3k on a new fuel system. I'm on 100% e85 and it's good to 800HP. On a gasoline type fuel it'd be good for 1500HP. The government subsidy for the ethanol based fuels is a good point too, it's interesting to see if it'll be renewed or not. Guess it really depends on where you're located and what best fits your needs/abilities.
    I feel like after the clear performance gains that E85 makes available (if you were to strictly upgrade your fueling & nothing else) it's never going to go away, especially because Race Fuel is going to get more expensive as well (current Admin refusing to drill domestically). BUT if (or when) the govt. subsidies end, the race-spec E85 (like FTW Purple E85) will double in price overnight. At least with ethanol, you basically have a never ending source of fuel as long as you have a field to grow corn in Click here to enlarge
    COBB AP ProTune by Bren of ///Bren Tuning
    Akrapovic DP | Helix FMIC | Alpina TCM Flash | Walbro 450LPH Fuel Pump


    "The moment money becomes your motivation, you are immediately not as good as someone who is motivated by passion and internal will." -A. Senna

  12. #137
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    I have yet to see a Cobb car running with Meth
    Plenty of Cobb cars running meth. I've personally installed a couple Aquamist HFS-4 kits locally as well as e-tuned many remote Cobb cars running meth. The system of choice is HFS-4 due to its great failsafe integration that doesn't require a piggyback for safety.
    Click here to enlarge

  13. #138
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    From what i've seen in the last few years... not that I like it but just as a fact of life... Meth seems to be the way to go on this platform although I have yet to see a Cobb car running with Meth... hence we run into a 3rd paradox
    I run meth daily, so is another local friend of mine (@cwarren) with COBB. We both run HFS4
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  14. #139
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    From what i've seen in the last few years... not that I like it but just as a fact of life... Meth seems to be the way to go on this platform although I have yet to see a Cobb car running with Meth... hence we run into a 3rd paradox
    ...theres quite a few cobb cars running meth, mine included. No issues running Cobb with Meth.
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    do u guys have logs that would show boost and meth flow?
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    do u guys have logs that would show boost and meth flow?
    Meth flow is on the HFS4 gauge and cannot be integrated into the Cobb's logging. Boost can be easily logged on Cobb.
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  17. #142
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    can u show the boost?
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  18. #143
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    Looks really good Tony. As for the filters what kind are you going to run? Don't think there's much room to work with on that rear turbo so I'm sure you'll need to relocate it at least a little. Still have plans to eventually develop real inlet tubes when it goes to production? Any reason for not just adding them now at the expense of a little more time?

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Were running filters on the turbos for the prototype. Absolutely nothing wrong with it, usually flows better than charge piping and if iat temps are effected it will be very slight and not noticeable.

  19. #144
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    can u show the boost?
    yes we can all show the boost, what are you trying to get at. (running HSF4 with Protune)




  20. #145
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    can u show the boost?
    Yes, if you are looking for instant gratificition just look at the thread Denzo created on the Protuned meth car. 18.5 PSI tapering to 16psi at 6.5k.
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    just wanted to see complete logs that is all... no biggie
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  22. #147
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    just wanted to see complete logs that is all... no biggie
    I plan on doing some in depth logging tonight on a new E85 map im working on. What would you like to see other than boost? Fuel trims? AFR? all 6 cylinder's timing? Intake air temps? All 6 cylinders timing corrections?
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  23. #148
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    can u show the boost?
    Here's a log of an ATR map i have. ~18psi tapering to ~13psi with 11.25 degrees of timing climbing to ~15 degrees up top.
    meth map 2.zip
    Click here to enlarge
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  24. #149
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    lulz all of that plus meth flow would be nice but w/o is ok too... i just want to take a look at them


    thanks Rader, on phone now but will look later
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    but now it would be logical to ask; what are the obvious advantages of this over the single?
    I think that's a very good question that lots of people should ask. IMO there aren't that many advantages, but the few there are can be important.

    1. Will be easier to deal with in software due to basic similarity to stock. There won't be a monopoly on tuning, and it should be pretty easy to get up and running.
    2. Will be easier to take to the dealer for other work if necessary, they shouldn't get as confused as they would by a single.
    3. If all else were equal they should have a bit less inertia relative to their flow capability.

    That's all I've got. If issue (1) goes away for singles, I'd probably lean toward single in spite of (2) and (3) just for simplicity and reduced parts cost. But if (1) never goes away, Stage 3 is looking really good.

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