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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    but a serious answer?
    Nobody is serious when talking $40k built motor turbo kit for a 335.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by import36 Click here to enlarge
    i'm confused....did no one read the thorough review that FBIS did after he received his car back from Vishnu? i mean there are no drag or 60-130 times like everyone's crying for....but he did provide independent dyno results (consistent 630+whp runs before updated DME flash). no way am i jumping in on the "bag on Vishnu/FFTEC ST kit" ...i like layin' low on the sidelines...but FBIS' dyno results were consistent with what was expected i think. there are obviously many factors involved when talking time slips (suspension setup, tires, driver mod, etc.)....but at least the power is there.
    Vishnu basically built a DYNO QUEEN. And because majority of people on the forums are stupid & fail to understand how to read a dyno graph, everyone just brags about how much WHP it makes. But like a lot of people over here / people who've argued with the ST, an RB car running a quality tune with PUmp + Meth/Race Gas/E85 can perform equally in the 1/4 mile (no 60-130 times still).

    Who cares if the power is there, if it's completely useless then why even bother having it at all? Click here to enlarge If anything it just makes you look like a bigger $#@! after spending ~$10k on the ST kit & then losing to a car with xxx WHP less
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  3. #28
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nobody is serious when talking $40k built motor turbo kit for a 335.
    yeah, i know, i really can't even work out where the cost is coming from.. i was trying lol

    including buying my engine, gearbox, installation and whatever else, i'll likely come out at least $10k on top of that price... ATLEAST.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Vishnu basically built a DYNO QUEEN. And because majority of people on the forums are stupid & fail to understand how to read a dyno graph, everyone just brags about how much WHP it makes. But like a lot of people over here / people who've argued with the ST, an RB car running a quality tune with PUmp + Meth/Race Gas/E85 can perform equally in the 1/4 mile (no 60-130 times still).

    Who cares if the power is there, if it's completely useless then why even bother having it at all? Click here to enlarge If anything it just makes you look like a bigger $#@! after spending ~$10k on the ST kit & then losing to a car with xxx WHP less
    That applies to a lot of platforms and cars in general. If you're a dumbass and can't match a chassis properly with a power level; then you will have an inherently slow car no matter how much power you got. I said from day one; this will never be a viable 10 second daily driver... there is simply too much to give up to gain so little and still keep the characteristics of a BMW. But nooooooo.... everyone argued and argued. This whole entire chassis is useless above 500 WHP.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  5. #30
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    Vishnu's ST is a great example of why you shouldn't just look at peak numbers, but also look at the area under the curve.
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    That applies to a lot of platforms and cars in general. If you're a dumbass and can't match a chassis properly with a power level; then you will have an inherently slow car no matter how much power you got. I said from day one; this will never be a viable 10 second daily driver... there is simply too much to give up to gain so little and still keep the characteristics of a BMW. But nooooooo.... everyone argued and argued. This whole entire chassis is useless above 500 WHP.
    why is this exactly?. suspension characteristics better for track work or something?

    i mean.. surely if you had a fully built vargas Stage 3 setup making 800whp it'd be good for 10's? lol

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    That applies to a lot of platforms and cars in general. If you're a dumbass and can't match a chassis properly with a power level
    Well I don't think the chassis is useless above 500 WHP, I just think it's useless at this power levels without a serious investment (suspension, drivetrain, LSD, and chassis reinforcement). Even the HPF E46 M3s need heavy reinforcement to the subframe or else it's a matter of time until you basically rip the backend out.

    BUT the problem is that Shiv doesn't wanna own up to this because that means additional investments & everybody over there wants big HP on a budget. I'm pretty sure the Supra guys encountered this, but ask BoostLogic/Titan Motorsports what it takes to build a 1,500 WHP Supra & they'll prob warn/prepare you that you're check books about to take a beating.
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  8. #33
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    40k for a turbo kit. Not even UGR is that expensive LOL
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  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fastgti69 Click here to enlarge
    40k for a turbo kit. Not even UGR is that expensive LOL
    Seriously, and you get TWO turbos with their kit Click here to enlarge
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  10. #35
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Seriously, and you get TWO turbos with their kit Click here to enlarge
    And no Shiv... now it looks like a bargain.

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    why is this exactly?. suspension characteristics better for track work or something?

    i mean.. surely if you had a fully built vargas Stage 3 setup making 800whp it'd be good for 10's? lol
    LOL... u got it...

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Well I don't think the chassis is useless above 500 WHP, I just think it's useless at this power levels without a serious investment (suspension, drivetrain, LSD, and chassis reinforcement). Even the HPF E46 M3s need heavy reinforcement to the subframe or else it's a matter of time until you basically rip the backend out.

    BUT the problem is that Shiv doesn't wanna own up to this because that means additional investments & everybody over there wants big HP on a budget. I'm pretty sure the Supra guys encountered this, but ask BoostLogic/Titan Motorsports what it takes to build a 1,500 WHP Supra & they'll prob warn/prepare you that you're check books about to take a beating.
    All of a sudden my whole comment makes a whole lot of sense if you consider the investment, effort and cons involved as opposed to getting a different car altogether.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    That applies to a lot of platforms and cars in general. If you're a dumbass and can't match a chassis properly with a power level; then you will have an inherently slow car no matter how much power you got. I said from day one; this will never be a viable 10 second daily driver... there is simply too much to give up to gain so little and still keep the characteristics of a BMW. But nooooooo.... everyone argued and argued. This whole entire chassis is useless above 500 WHP.
    exactly. imo...you're buying the turbo kit (or any turbo kit on any platform) to give you xxx amount of hp....not to properly set up the car for making spectacular runs. this topic has been beat down more than Asa Akira in an interracial gangbang....NO turbo kits include suspension/chassis mods, lsd, weight reduction, etc. why is this kit expected to be any different? when Shiv did his initial testing and runs for Edmund's mag (or whatever it was)...he disclosed every mod that had been done as far as chassis setup, etc. i looked at that as showing what the kit was capable of....not what my car would do if i bolted the kit onto a completely stock car. yeah...i'm sure there were some readers out there who thought "wow....i can bolt this sucker on and run 10's all day"...but i think we can agree that these are folks who should not have a setup like this in their posession.

    anyways.....someone asked for the link to FBIS review. here's both links...one on his initial impressions (this includes dynos) and the other with his impressions after reflash (no dyno info):

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=741598

    http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=751667

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    All of a sudden my whole comment makes a whole lot of sense if you consider the investment, effort and cons involved as opposed to getting a different car altogether.
    I mean, to justify the expense, it comes down to two specific factors (IMO):
    1. If you decide to move to a different platform, is it better suited (or a more proven) platform? If you're jumping into a 997 Turbo, GTR, Z06, I think you're making a better choice long-term
    2. How much are you realistically ready to invest into the car? Figure a reasonable used N54 335 is $25k & you want to boost it up take it to nearly ~700 WHP, you better be ready to double your initial investment & put another $25k in.
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  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Power on paper and in real life are two different things.
    Preach!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And no Shiv... now it looks like a bargain.
    Click here to enlarge


    he still won't let up, apparently because i learnt a lot of what i know from (knowledgable people) here, it's all useless knowledge.. :/

    ED:

    "I can say that I was working on N54s well before any or your experts that you consult."

    @Terry@BMS @dzenno@PROtuningfreaks

    not to mention all the other ACTUAL professionals here...
    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-29-2013 at 10:36 PM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge


    he still won't let up, apparently because i learnt a lot of what i know from (knowledgable people) here, it's all useless knowledge.. :/
    Of course it's useless, we don't see his brilliance. So, we're idiots.

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    Yeah, I agree with everyone that 40k AUD (42k USD) for a turbo is steep, but you have to look at it from the Australian context. There are currently NO options for anyone in any RHD market for ANYTHING past stage 2 upgrades. There just isn't.


    If someone is willing to develop a product for a new market, they probably deserve a price premium. Obviously, not everyone is willing to pay that price. However, Advan have said there will be 1 kit on the shelf so they really only need 1 buy to pay that premium.


    Remember, people pay $800+ (840USD) for their hidden trunk meth tank. Not to mention you yanks need to pay an extra $200 shipping to the states.


    Unfortunately, everything in Australia is expensive. My 2008 135i would be worth 40k (if it were stock) and my 2007 335i would be worth a similar amount. My 2010 SS RHD Camaro is still insured for $100K! Seriously. What are these cars worth in US? A third of that?

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    The US market has many more cars especially BMW's so they will be cheaper. Still, $40k for a turbo setup is $40k for a freaking turbo setup. A gallardo kit from UGR starts at $25k. RHD S54 M3 kits are cheaper. Even with a built motor.

    If someone wants to pay that go right ahead. Maybe we should start a list now...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course it's useless, we don't see his brilliance. So, we're idiots.
    i should probably just give up on my swap then >_>

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dontask Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I agree with everyone that 40k AUD (42k USD) for a turbo is steep, but you have to look at it from the Australian context. There are currently NO options for anyone in any RHD market for ANYTHING past stage 2 upgrades. There just isn't.


    If someone is willing to develop a product for a new market, they probably deserve a price premium. Obviously, not everyone is willing to pay that price. However, Advan have said there will be 1 kit on the shelf so they really only need 1 buy to pay that premium.
    that's true . the 'best beaches in the world' tax. but everyone thought vishnu's $10k was steep... and like i said, my whole build won't total $40k. and even if it does, subtract $12-$15k for startup overheads.. and you're left with a lot of profit.

    I still have no explanation why vishnu's kit wouldn't it RHD anyway, i really would just think it's a downpipe pathing issue which is easy enough to overcome for a single?


    Just a thought.. when i'm done, if the results turn out as good as i hope... i should probably look into monetizing it then, if you can charge such large figures? haha


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    The US market has many more cars especially BMW's so they will be cheaper. Still, $40k for a turbo setup is $40k for a freaking turbo setup. A gallardo kit from UGR starts at $25k. RHD S54 M3 kits are cheaper. Even with a built motor.

    If someone wants to pay that go right ahead. Maybe we should start a list now...
    $40k is getting into AMS-GT-R territory too isn't it?

    . isn't about the $50k mark a 1000hp S54 HPF kit?

    ED:
    $20,500.00 for a RHD twin turbo 602Bhp kit
    $49,500.00 for a LHD single turbo 1100BHP kit
    $31,995.00 for a LHD single turbo 960 BHP kit.

    Yeah i think that about covers that.

    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-29-2013 at 11:02 PM.

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    Yupp $50K gets you HPF Stage 4.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Also, the Advan quoted prices are turn key, includes all bolt ons (intercooler, downpipes, oil cooler etc) - and also includes labour. Are the prices above inclusive of such costs?

    An N54 comparison: The RBs/VTT stage 2 would cost at least $3000 (inclulding shipping to Aus), $200 gaskets, plus $1000 - $2000 install costs. BMS downpipes are $380 + $100 shipping. ETS Intercooler is $650 + 150 shipping. $700 for Cobb + 500 for G5 JB4 board. $600-900 for an oil cooler (depending in which you choose) About $8000.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I still have no explanation why vishnu's kit wouldn't it RHD anyway, i really would just think it's a downpipe pathing issue which is easy enough to overcome for a single?
    The Vishnu ST kit doesn't work for the same reason the bigger HPF S54 Turbo Kits don't work on RHD E46 M3s. There's just not enough clearance for the drive shaft to clear the manifold & larger single turbo. It's just a lot easier for the drive shaft to clear two smaller turbos & shorter routed manifolds.


    Here's an article that was (posted here on BB) about the TT-E46 M3 (RHD) that HPF with a video that provides more detailed explanation of the clearance issues: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ing-completion


    BUT if you wanna get mad at somebody, blame the English
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  23. #48
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dontask Click here to enlarge
    Also, the Advan quoted prices are turn key, includes all bolt ons (intercooler, downpipes, oil cooler etc) - and also includes labour. Are the prices above inclusive of such costs?

    An N54 comparison: The RBs/VTT stage 2 would cost at least $3000 (inclulding shipping to Aus), $200 gaskets, plus $1000 - $2000 install costs. BMS downpipes are $380 + $100 shipping. ETS Intercooler is $650 + 150 shipping. $700 for Cobb + 500 for G5 JB4 board. $600-900 for an oil cooler (depending in which you choose) About $8000.
    The HPF ones are, yes


    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The Vishnu ST kit doesn't work for the same reason the bigger HPF S54 Turbo Kits don't work on RHD E46 M3s. There's just not enough clearance for the drive shaft to clear the manifold & larger single turbo. It's just a lot easier for the drive shaft to clear two smaller turbos & shorter routed manifolds.


    Here's an article that was (posted here on BB) about the TT-E46 M3 (RHD) that HPF with a video that provides more detailed explanation of the clearance issues: http://www.bimmerboost.com/content.p...ing-completion


    BUT if you wanna get mad at somebody, blame the English
    isn't it just a single 4" downpipe of the vishnu? it can follow the stock path then.?

    and isn't the steering rack situated slightly to the rear of the engine block? i'll have to look at mine again, but last time i checked it was miles away from the block/turbos. if you can't fit it in a turbo kit like that, there'd be no way you could even fit a high-mount :/.. if it has to do with the downpipe.

    and with the manifolds being a similar shape and not much biggerthan OEM... well you'd have to have them multiple inches larger... and especially for the N54, the single turbo roughly situated in the middle of the block, between 4/5, compared to the rear twin sitting underneath the middle of the second cylinder.. miiiiiiiiiiiiiles away

    that HPF twin kit is a totally different story as it's low low low low mounted lol. practically a stealth mount... you couldn't even fit them in the N54 stock locaton.. and the whole fitment of the S54 is.. well not designed to have a turbo (or even two) - the N54 doesn't have it's turbos (or a large one) mounted right next to the RHD.. in fact, looking at pics of the visnu setup, it's 'front' mounted, roughly where the front turbo would be in the stock setup... and yeah, it looks like the DP goes straight, right through where the rack would be

    if i was made of money, i'd buy one just to test fit lol
    Last edited by Flinchy; 01-30-2013 at 12:18 AM.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dontask Click here to enlarge
    Also, the Advan quoted prices are turn key, includes all bolt ons (intercooler, downpipes, oil cooler etc) - and also includes labour. Are the prices above inclusive of such costs?

    An N54 comparison: The RBs/VTT stage 2 would cost at least $3000 (inclulding shipping to Aus), $200 gaskets, plus $1000 - $2000 install costs. BMS downpipes are $380 + $100 shipping. ETS Intercooler is $650 + 150 shipping. $700 for Cobb + 500 for G5 JB4 board. $600-900 for an oil cooler (depending in which you choose) About $8000.
    $2000 for labor on RBs/Vargas? I am in the wrong line of work. $1000 is more like it. The USD and AUD are fairly close so there is very little conversion. Here's a better scenario:

    Used JB4 + Used Cobb AP = $1000
    DCI = $100
    Used 2.5" downpipes = $150
    Used FMIC = $300-700 depending on setup
    Methanol kit = $200-$1000 depending on setup
    Secondary Cat delete / Resonator delete = $100
    RB Turbos = $3100

    Installation of RB Turbos, FMIC, DPs = $1000. They are total because all those parts come out during installation. Save money if DIY.
    Fluids = $100-$125
    Installation parts minus oil lines = $100
    Tune, DCI installation = DIY

    My total is at $6150, and that's being generous. Most cars come with the stock oil cooler which I have yet to exceed 250 degrees Fahrenheit.

    With that said, $6150 vs. $40000 for unproven vaporware. I wonder where most people are going to go towards.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    $2000 for labor on RBs/Vargas? I am in the wrong line of work. $1000 is more like it. The USD and AUD are fairly close so there is very little conversion. Here's a better scenario:

    Used JB4 + Used Cobb AP = $1000
    DCI = $100
    Used 2.5" downpipes = $150
    Used FMIC = $300-700 depending on setup
    Methanol kit = $200-$1000 depending on setup
    Secondary Cat delete / Resonator delete = $100
    RB Turbos = $3100

    Installation of RB Turbos, FMIC, DPs = $1000. They are total because all those parts come out during installation. Save money if DIY.
    Fluids = $100-$125
    Installation parts minus oil lines = $100
    Tune, DCI installation = DIY

    My total is at $6150, and that's being generous. Most cars come with the stock oil cooler which I have yet to exceed 250 degrees Fahrenheit.

    With that said, $6150 vs. $40000 for unproven vaporware. I wonder where most people are going to go towards.
    ahhh to be fair, they're not taking down payments, not preordering, it's not even official

    what is official is their (hoping or 600whp at least) $15-$18k inc FBO package with a GTX35

    and if i were to go JB4 with cobb flash, i'd find a friend with one nearby that would do it for a case of beer or $50 or something lol

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