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Thread: ESS is attempting to back out of the dyno event they themselves requested?

              
  1. #1
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    ESS is attempting to back out of the dyno event they themselves requested?

    Roman at ESS is now attempting to back out of the tuner dyno day shootout. I would like to remind everyone, ESS requested this dyno comparison themselves and asked BimmerBoost to schedule it. Now that the date is nearing, ESS is going back on their word at the last minute

    I received this e-mail from Roman:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Roman
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Joseph / Sticky

    I have been well aware of your communication with AJ in regards to your dyno event. I have also seen your post on mfest where you accuse AJ of agreeing to attend your scheduled event. I find it odd that you would schedule an event like this without any confirmation from AJ that he could attend due to his current work in Europe . The following email responses from AJ to your request seem to be very clear that he wanted to attend your event but could not commit to your dates and that he would follow up with you when he could. I have seen the emails and I do not see the one where you gave AJ a date and he agreed to be there.


    "Hi Joseph,

    I am currently back in Europe putting the finishing touches on our soon to be released V10 SC system, I have not confirmed return flight to the US yet as that depends on when development here is finished. I hope to be back mid-late August, is there any chance the event can be planned after that? If not I will look into flying out there from Europe if time allows it."


    "Joseph,

    I am not quite sure yet as my return depends on completion of the MSS65 SC work. I will keep you posted as soon as I know.

    I think the 14th may be to soon as we are doing a airfield event here in Scandinavia with the E60 M5 SC that weekend."


    I believe AJ has been very cordial in answering your questions and sending you dyno info at your request. He has also been very open with wanting to help you put together a dyno event to prove to you and the other doubters in your camp how our products perform. During this time you have continued to make untrue statements about our company in an attempt to promote the vendors that sponsor your car and your website. The most recent is the post you made on e90post in regards to our NA software. You continue to say one thing to us and do another on the forums. You might feel that because you make anonymous accounts on these forums you can hide your ID from others while taking your usual shots at our company but you and I both know the truth.


    Do to your continued actions I feel that it is best if we terminate communications with you as you seem to have a very obvious motive when it comes to our company and the products we make.

    .
    Roman Zepeda
    ESS Performance Products
    E-Mail : roman@esstuning.com
    Web : www.esstuning.com
    Tel : (602)751-0571
    This was my response:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
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    First of all Roman, I never asked to schedule an event. Asbjorn made the request to me on the 11th of May for a dyno comparison this summer:

    "On another note, would you guys be up for a friendly dyno shootout in CA this summer? We would be glad to bring out a few cars for some comparisons under identical conditions. I would also like to meet some of you guys in person to talk about various things you have questions about as I feel this internet hostility serves no purpose. We have absolutely nothing to hide, and I would like to prove it to you.

    Regards,

    Asbjorn"

    I told him I would schedule the event:

    "Absolutely, I would be more than happy to host a dyno shootout. I have been trying to get this done for some time but no one has been willing to agree. Of course the internet hostility serves no purpose and my desire was to point out legitimate questions but then everyone starts fighting with personal politics on the other boards. "

    This was the response from Asbjorn:

    "It would be a lot of fun doing some friendly comparo's and posting the results! :-)"

    At no point am I told not to go forward with this. ESS suggested this themselves and said it would be fun, so I did what was requested of me to accommodate ESS. I scheduled the event for late-July since ESS said "summer" and gave no specific date. Well, late July apparently did not work as per Asbjorn being in Europe. Despite that, he says he will fly out if necessary:

    "I am currently back in Europe putting the finishing touches on our soon to be released V10 SC system, I have not confirmed return flight to the US yet as that depends on when development here is finished. I hope to be back mid-late August, is there any chance the event can be planned after that? If not I will look into flying out there from Europe if time allows it."

    I reschedule the event to accommodate ESS and update Asbjorn on that. At no point am I told he can not make it. He says he will be back mid-August, I make it late August as he REQUESTED the event to be rescheduled which is confirmation of attendance. ESS suggested the event, suggested the time frame, and suggested it be organized. I have complied in every possible respect. I have spent considerable time and money making this happen as requested. I'm not sure what else you could possibly want of me, I have gone above and beyond fulfilling your demands for a dyno day with a dynojet, boost logging, and dates in the most professional and respectful manner possible.

    I do not post on e90post, so you have me confused with someone else. Secondly, I am not in any camp. As a matter of fact, I have contacted ESS from the very earliest days requesting products for my car only to be rebuked and not followed up with.

    Asbjorn has agreed in principle to attend and suggested the event himself which I complied with. It seems now that the date is coming close you are attempting to back out. I will hold ESS accountable for the time and cost. Many companies have arranged their schedules around this event and you have led me on for almost 4 months now. If you would like to terminate the event, I will accept reimbursement for all the accrued time, fees, and potential lost revenue.

    Remember, ESS made the request for the event, confirmed, and asked for a reschedule. The entire point of the event was to alleviate any doubts so what motives do I have? To actually have a real third party comparison with all the tuners in one place? The product is supposed to speak for itself but you are not letting it. What was the point of all that talk when you requested a dyno challenge with Powerchip? Well, you have it, why are you not keeping your word? This is not professional behavior in the slightest. I hope this is simply a misunderstanding that we can work out and I would like to make it clear I fully have the best of intentions. That would also be why I even offered accommodations for Asbjorn at my expense. I hope we can work this out and I look forward to ESS honoring its word.

    - Joseph - BimmerBoost.com
    We have over a half dozen companies waiting on ESS. BMS has agreed and has been patiently waiting. MHP agreed although the date change now inconveniences them. Gintani agreed and said they would accept the date change for ESS. OE Tuning agreed and said they accept the date change to wait for ESS. Powerchip said they do not mind the date change and look forward to it. Vishnu has agreed in proxy and we also have GIAC representation. G-power is ready with their supercharger representation.

    BimmerBoost has worked tirelessly to make this event happen at substantial cost as any of these companies can attest. We have been on the phones and e-mailing back and forth for what is almost 4 months now.

    ESS requested this event, led everyone on, and now is backing down from their own challenge. BimmerBoost has considerable cost tied to the event and will not simply let it go. DC Performance has a large amount of revenue dependent on the event. Literally dozens of people, companies will be hurt financially and inconvenienced by ESS not honoring its own request.

    We would like the BMW community to encourage ESS to participate as they had agreed, please contact Roman and make it known you would like to see the event take place as planned:

    Roman Zepeda
    ESS Performance Products
    E-Mail : roman@esstuning.com
    Web : www.esstuning.com
    Tel : (602)751-057

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    Roman says that due to my "actions" they wish to terminate communications, well, here are my actions:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
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    After speaking with ESS over the past few days it was suggested that a friendly dyno comparison should take place with ESS coming out to California to participate on a third party dynojet.

    BimmerBoost will be organizing the event that tentatively is scheduled for mid-June. The date may change to be able to accommodate everyone.

    This will simply be a friendly dyno comparison of all the available options for the E9X M3 as well as the N54. The royal rumble of tuning so to speak Click here to enlarge So, who is going to participate?

    Confirmed:

    ESS
    G-Power
    Gintani
    BMS
    CP-E
    Vishnu
    Powerchip
    OE tuning
    MHP
    and

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
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    We want to make it clear this event is taking place thanks to the suggestion and encouragement of ESS who asked for a third party dyno comparison with all the competitors in one place at the same time. BimmerBoost was able to make this happen and get practically every major player involved and we want to thank the participants for being so enthusiastic about it.
    and

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
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    BimmerBoost is pushing the dyno event back to accomodate ESS. Note, Asbjorn, the tuner for ESS, is in Europe and is going to be there through the date originally scheduled. He said he would be willing to fly out if necessary which we truly appreciate. The cost of forcing him to fly out for a weekend and then fly back just isn't fair or something we should realistically expect him to do.
    We have shown the utmost respect to ESS in accommodating their wishes.

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    What the hell?

    What is so hard about attending a dyno day?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
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    What the hell?

    What is so hard about attending a dyno day?
    A dyno day that they asked for themselves? A dyno day that was rescheduled specifically to accommodate them? You tell me Click here to enlarge

    It is solely Roman standing in the way now at the last minute, Asbjorn, the actual tuner, already agreed.

    I find it funny that a company that calls out Powerchip saying they will meet them anytime, anywhere, now can't seem to find the time.

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    woow... that's just embarassing now

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Yukohama Click here to enlarge
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    woow... that's just embarassing now
    I just hope we can resolve this.

    Everything is setup and ready, everyone is waiting, we are sourcing magazine coverage, what is the problem? They are the ones who asked for this whole thing!

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    Oh this is classic ESS Bull$#@!. I had a feeling this would happen.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
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    Oh this is classic ESS Bull$#@!. I had a feeling this would happen.
    How in the world can they do this at the last minute? How does that make them look after asking to set this whole thing up?

    Powerchip, Gintani, OE-tuning, BMS, Vishnu, GIAC, G-power, everyone is on board and waiting for them. Roman just doesn't want to see BimmerBoost get exposure, that is what this really comes down to.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JonMartin Click here to enlarge
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    Oh this is classic ESS Bull$#@!. I had a feeling this would happen.
    Look at this: http://www.mfestforum.com/forum/show...d=1#post135809

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    If they back out of this, they are straight up making a HUGE PR mistake!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by MSpiredM3 Click here to enlarge
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    If they back out of this, they are straight up making a HUGE PR mistake!
    We will see what happens, I gave ESS everything they wanted. They wanted a third party comparison in CA? Done. That wanted it this summer? Done. They wanted everyone in attendance? Done. They wanted a dynojet? Done. They wanted to showcase their N54 tune? No problem. They wanted to show their M3 tuning? Ok, done. They wanted to show their SC's? No problem, the competition will be in attendance. They wanted a reschedule? They got it.

    I don't know what else I can possibly do. They are the ones who called out Powerchip, well, Powerchip is ready to rock and isn't backing down. Gintani isn't backing down. No one else is backing down. The fact they are doing this at the last minute shows absolutely no respect for anyone else and no respect for the time and money that has gone into this. I can not stress enough how difficult organizing this and getting all the tuners on the same page has been. I can't stress enough how much money this has cost.

    I hope we can resolve whatever issue is preventing this. If they want a different date, we will reschedule to accommodate ESS yet again.

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    Since their products are off the shelf and not custom. You could just purchase the tune or find a M3 with ESS tune only.

    Also find a couple ESS SC M3's to attend the event.

    They might have to participate whether they like it or not.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
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    Since their products are off the shelf and not custom. You could just purchase the tune or find a M3 with ESS tune only.

    Also find a couple ESS SC M3's to attend the event.

    They might have participate whether they like it or not.
    True, but that is not what was agreed to and would not be what the event is about. ESS is the entire reason this event was organized.

    In Vishnu's case I understand why we need to source customer cars, same with GIAC. ESS said they wanted to go head to head with the other tuners, well, what is the hold-up?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I just realized there is someone that apparently is my Biatch. Hmmm wonder who that might be.... Well $#@! better have my money.

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    This was ESS in February, when ESS was challenging Powerchip:

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rom3n
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    We can still do the challenge and you can hide all data from the public. We will still post all of ours as we have nothing to hide.

    When you find time between in your super busy schedule call us and let’s do this test.
    Seems it is ESS that can't find the time...

    Powerchip and everyone else is ready to go.

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    Interesting, and sad. Humans backing down.

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    from M3POST:

    AJ@ESS:

    Sticky's dyno day? Due to obvious reasons we will not participate in that. If a 3rd party sets up something we would be more than happy to attend as long as the following conditions are met :

    -Full share of dyno files as they are made, not later so they can be changed/replaced.
    -Same fuel used. We drain all tanks and refill from the same gas station before dynotesting.
    -Boost and ignition retardation logging as well as a error scan after the pulls to verify all is running well.

    I will be back in the US in mid/late September and will make myself available for any and all testing on these terms that is held by a person/group not affiliated with Gintani/OE.
    Current:
    13 E92 M3 ZCP
    - WSIR 1:33:9 / BW C13 2:03:5 / ACS 1:56:7
    (Stock besides wheels/tires - Rs3)
    WSIR 1:32:8 / BW C13 1:59:2 / ACS 1:55:1
    (KW ClubSport 3 way / Rs3)
    WSIR 1:30:9 / BW C13 1:57:7
    (above plus Apr Wing)

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    $#@! those people. Seriously. Its like having a GF that always says she's gonna do something, but never does. $#@! them and move on... ESS seems to be worst than $#@!es.

    So what, there is not one single ESS SC M3 in Cali that would go alone? Any customer's car should be running properly, so they should not be able to blame AJ/Roman's absence for anything.

    If I had an M3, supercharged by the f*cking LEGO toy company (yes, a supercharger made of lego blocks), Id still show up and enjoy the day.
    Last edited by GT3; 07-28-2010 at 11:06 AM.

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    Shenanigans!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sammyrusso Click here to enlarge
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    from M3POST:

    AJ@ESS:

    Sticky's dyno day? Due to obvious reasons we will not participate in that. If a 3rd party sets up something we would be more than happy to attend as long as the following conditions are met :

    -Full share of dyno files as they are made, not later so they can be changed/replaced.
    -Same fuel used. We drain all tanks and refill from the same gas station before dynotesting.
    -Boost and ignition retardation logging as well as a error scan after the pulls to verify all is running well.

    I will be back in the US in mid/late September and will make myself available for any and all testing on these terms that is held by a person/group not affiliated with Gintani/OE.
    Uh, I AM A THIRD PARTY. How am I affiliated with Gintani/OE?

    Now all of a sudden it is September? He wrote August and is now changing his story?

    All conditions were met.

    E-mail asbjorn@esstuning.com and voice your displeasure.

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    I will move the date to mid-late September now if necessary.

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    I can't believe ESS is behaving like this,

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
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    Ok, I understand you are busy no need to confirm the exactly date yet. But you do agree to a friendly dyno comparison? Your E92 M3 tune vs. others, Your SC vs. others, and how about your N54 tune as well?

    - Joseph
    From: Asbjorn Bohn
    To: administrator@bimmerboost.com
    Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 1:13:50 AM
    Subject: Re: Dyno graphs

    Absolutely! We have been wanting to do this since day 1, fair and independent comparisons is what the public needs. This way we know exactly what is what under the exact same conditions. Do you have a dyno facility in mind that could work? We prefer DynoJet as neither dyno or drf files can be manipulated if that is cool with you? We also have to rig up some sort of fuel extraction system so we can empty and refill cars from the same pump before testing to eliminate octane variables. Boost logging is also a must imo.

    -Asbjorn Bohn
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky
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    Asbjorn, it took a while but I finally got everyone together and got a venue with a dynojet for the dyno comparison as you requested Click here to enlarge I have even taken the liberty of arranging accommodations free of charge for you. You do not need to use them of course if you have your own desired accommodations, just providing them as a common courtesy since you are from out of state. Feel free to look over the details here and I have you tuning on every platform we will feature except for the diesel. If you wish to tune the diesel as well, let me know: http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthrea...2485#post32485

    Thank you once again for suggesting this as well as stating you have been wanting to to this since day one. I agree with you, this is exactly what the public needs and I look forward to meeting you!

    - Joseph - BimmerBoost.com

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    Sticky,
    who cares about ess. If they dont want to participate, $#@! em. Stop trying to accomodate them. Its their loss.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by unfor Click here to enlarge
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    Sticky,
    who cares about ess. If they dont want to participate, $#@! em. Stop trying to accomodate them. Its their loss.
    They have cost me time, money, and potential revenue, so if they will not honor their word I will be forced to have to seek compensation.

    I want to make it clear to everyone I have done everything in my power to facilitate them and I am still trying to. It seems they never had any intention of honoring their word.

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    I hope they change their minds.

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