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  1. #76
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I think I fund a Sunoco meth source on my drive home. I got tap water in the tank right now with solenoid turned off just to make sure it isn't leaking before I add methanol.
    Awaiting results Click here to enlarge

  2. #77
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    Put water in the tank this morning with solenoid off, checked it after work and there was nothing. Got it home and determined one of the fittings was leaking. Got that fixed, added more water and went to test on map 3 with no add. Meth was showing 20%ish jumpy flow no matter what and I couldn't crack 13 psi. Diagnosed it and the 20% flow is from the aquamist 0.5-5v range. Working with Terry on that. The jumpy flow I am talking to the aquamist guys about. Why didn't the meth flow? Solenoid isn't functioning despite having solid ground and 12V. Looks like I got a bad one? Click here to enlarge

  3. #78
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    Got the solenoid working and did a couple pulls. So far poor (confusing) results. Test done at 17.5psi and 50% mix of E85 on map 5. First run was no meth on a downhill, second run was meth/water on an uphill. Injecting around 500ml/min. I am not seeing any change at all to PWM. Clearly the meth is there as indicated by the trims and flow sensor being activated. Does that trim reduction look right for this meth/water flow? I was thinking a little more trim drop would be expected. Its interesting that the IC gained 20F with meth/water versus 6F or so with just air. The specific heat of the mix must have gone up. Its possible that the Tout is cooler and the air more dense (thus shaft speed less) but the energy into the compressor is the same since the energy is just going into changing the state of the meth/water mix. To me though this should still lower PWM since any density increase should reduce work on the compressor imho.

    Click here to enlarge
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    Next steps are to keep testing, change meth/water ratio, and to eventually get to logging T and P out and/or turbine shaft speed.
    Last edited by rudypoochris; 02-05-2013 at 12:42 PM.

  4. #79
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    @DBFIU thoughts?

  5. #80
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    Oh also, to those with the aquamist sensor. If you're getting a jumpy signal out of it, its because the voltage isn't strictly DC. Apparently it oscillates at around 3.33Hz. I am going to make a circuit to buffer this. This is the source of jumpiness in my meth flow logs.

    Click here to enlarge

  6. #81
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    @DBFIU thoughts?
    He hasn't been around lately Click here to enlarge

  7. #82
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    Hmm.

  8. #83
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    Hmm.
    Ya, I feel similarly. Gotta do more testing but can't until the weekend.

  9. #84
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    A little bit of progress. I backed the amount injected down a bit and will back it down a lot more instead work up to the correct amount. I did some logging this morning. Whats really strange is that I am getting timing pulled when meth/water hits some of the time. This makes no sense to me since this 50% E85 mix and I have no problem hitting full target with no meth. I am thinking maybe its flooding?

    Click here to enlargeClick here to enlargeClick here to enlarge

  10. #85
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    Try starting out without E85, run straight 93 on medium boost, get a baseline and then turn on the meth and experiment. Raise boost slowly and keep going until you find the limit. The BMWs are so finnicky.
    Some people live long, meaningful lives.

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  11. #86
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DBFIU Click here to enlarge
    Try starting out without E85, run straight 93 on medium boost, get a baseline and then turn on the meth and experiment. Raise boost slowly and keep going until you find the limit. The BMWs are so finnicky.
    I am not using the meth for octane though. I'd think that PWM shouldn't change much based on E85 use? Or you mean to figure out why I am losing timing when meth hits?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I am not using the meth for octane though. I'd think that PWM shouldn't change much based on E85 use? Or you mean to figure out why I am losing timing when meth hits?
    I'd eliminate the variables. Go back to a gas, and then try with and without meth. Too bad you couldn't just inject into a bucket to see what it looks like.

    These logs show issues when you run meth, which is odd. So I'd not worry about the pwm part and try to resolve the pulled timing part first. I'd reduce your methanol flow until the timing stops pulling and go from there.

  13. #88
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by klipseracer Click here to enlarge
    I'd eliminate the variables. Go back to a gas, and then try with and without meth. Too bad you couldn't just inject into a bucket to see what it looks like.

    These logs show issues when you run meth, which is odd. So I'd not worry about the pwm part and try to resolve the pulled timing part first. I'd reduce your methanol flow until the timing stops pulling and go from there.
    Yeah I got a few tests I am going to do. Probably not going back to 91 only, but I will definitely clip the injector to the window and see what it looks like when I gas it. I suspect that the injection is coming on at say 8psi, but the fluid is still pressurized to 18psi or so, so the fluid pressure is way too high and not atomizing. Not sure how that would read as knock, but I could see issue there on spool up.

  14. #89
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Yeah I got a few tests I am going to do. Probably not going back to 91 only, but I will definitely clip the injector to the window and see what it looks like when I gas it. I suspect that the injection is coming on at say 8psi, but the fluid is still pressurized to 18psi or so, so the fluid pressure is way too high and not atomizing. Not sure how that would read as knock, but I could see issue there on spool up.
    I still didnt get what meth "pump" you are using, normaly we been using electric pumps rated over 200psi but you are at 18? Wouldnt this mean that there is almost no atomization at all and that you only hit your compressors with a stream of meth/water?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    I still didnt get what meth "pump" you are using, normaly we been using electric pumps rated over 200psi but you are at 18? Wouldnt this mean that there is almost no atomization at all and that you only hit your compressors with a stream of meth/water?
    The nozzles I'm using are completely different than those that are used with the electric pumps. These nozzles are air mix nozzles often used for dust suppression. They take in air and liquid (2 port) and blast the air stream across the liquid stream for higher atomization. Actually I think I ill get better atomization if I drop my liquid pressure to around 7-10psi. I think the knock and CAC heating is coming from too much liquid in the air stream too early. I got a pressure regulator on order. I am going to bench the whole system, but since I not have an air compressor, I am going to have to get creative.

  16. #91
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    The nozzles I'm using are completely different than those that are used with the electric pumps. These nozzles are air mix nozzles often used for dust suppression. They take in air and liquid (2 port) and blast the air stream across the liquid stream for higher atomization. Actually I think I ill get better atomization if I drop my liquid pressure to around 7-10psi. I think the knock and CAC heating is coming from too much liquid in the air stream too early. I got a pressure regulator on order. I am going to bench the whole system, but since I not have an air compressor, I am going to have to get creative.
    So you are running an air compressor to run the nozzles or? Would be cool to get a video of the system in action if its possible.
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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    So you are running an air compressor to run the nozzles or? Would be cool to get a video of the system in action if its possible.
    The way understand it he is using the air pressure from the charge pipe to provide air pressure to his Meth tank and his nozzles. Thay is why he has two Meth lines going to the tank, one for air pressure and one for Meth delivery to his nozzles.

    Hope I've got this right and not confusing anyone.

    Enjoying following this project.

    NATE

  18. #93
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dblrguy Click here to enlarge
    The way understand it he is using the air pressure from the charge pipe to provide air pressure to his Meth tank and his nozzles. Thay is why he has two Meth lines going to the tank, one for air pressure and one for Meth delivery to his nozzles.

    Hope I've got this right and not confusing anyone.

    Enjoying following this project.

    NATE
    But then he wouldnt have 18psi pressure at the nozzles since he started spraying at 8psi? And 18psi is also higher than the max boost in the log for now?
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  19. #94
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    But then he wouldnt have 18psi pressure at the nozzles since he started spraying at 8psi? And 18psi is also higher than the max boost in the log for now?
    There is a check valve on the air line to the tank so that it stays at the pressure of the last peak boost. I am going to change that with a regulator to keep the tank around 8 psi. I said 18 psi because that was my old peak boost level. It will be whatever pressure the peak run was at. The pressure in the tank that drives the liquid is sourced from the charge pipe.

  20. #95
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    There is a check valve on the air line to the tank so that it stays at the pressure of the last peak boost. I am going to change that with a regulator to keep the tank around 8 psi. I said 18 psi because that was my old peak boost level. It will be whatever pressure the peak run was at. The pressure in the tank that drives the liquid is sourced from the charge pipe.
    Ok I would like to see it in action if its possible to rig, so at 8psi boost you mix 18psi meth with 8psi charge air. The pressure will only be the same at peak boost or at whatever psi you set the regulator to.
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  21. #96
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Ok I would like to see it in action if its possible to rig, so at 8psi boost you mix 18psi meth with 8psi charge air. The pressure will only be the same at peak boost or at whatever psi you set the regulator to.
    Ya exactly, and I think thats my atomization problem. You want to have higher air pressure than liquid pressure at all times. There isn't much to see when its in action, but I can diagram it out. If I had an air compressor I could bench the system. Likely I will just strap a nozzle to the windshield to confirm the atomization looks right... lol.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Ya exactly, and I think thats my atomization problem. You want to have higher air pressure than liquid pressure at all times. There isn't much to see when its in action, but I can diagram it out. If I had an air compressor I could bench the system. Likely I will just strap a nozzle to the windshield to confirm the atomization looks right... lol.
    Why dont you just run a tank of pressurized air in the trunk?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by xbox_fan Click here to enlarge
    Why dont you just run a tank of pressurized air in the trunk?
    Is that not what I am doing? I want the option of progressive control based on boost. Otherwise I old just use an electric pump and a regulator (it would of been simpler).

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Is that not what I am doing? I want the option of progressive control based on boost. Otherwise I old just use an electric pump and a regulator (it would of been simpler).
    Well not really but its like you are testing two new things at once now, maybe focusing on the pre meth first running a bottle for air instead of the charge pipe would make the testing easier for now.

    Anyways it is very interesting (both your nozzle setup and pre turbo)
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Oh also, to those with the aquamist sensor. If you're getting a jumpy signal out of it, its because the voltage isn't strictly DC. Apparently it oscillates at around 3.33Hz. I am going to make a circuit to buffer this. This is the source of jumpiness in my meth flow logs.

    http://www.bimmerboost.com/images/im...c2718b76-1.png
    Been researching this more and it would appear that likely this is caused by noise somewhere after the sensor. I will test with the sensor away from the rest of the electronics.

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