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  1. #1
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    JB3 Boost + BT Timing Graph

    In an effort to better understand the performance of my car under aggressive conditions I conducted some logging at the track. I have never been able to run both the BT and JB3 simultaneously due to performance constraints on my laptop so I decided to execute a JB3 log and BT timing log on back to back runs.

    This is by no means a perfect scenario as no run is the same; however the outcome of these 2 runs were very similar. Following are the details of these runs along side my record run to show you the delta and to draw some interesting comparisons. My record run yielded a gain of over 27 MPH after the 1/8. In the slower runs I was only gaining 26 MPH. I wish I would have logged that record run.

    Click here to enlarge


    I made an effort to marry the two logs together to get a complete picture of the following variables:
    • Ignition Timing
    • Intake Air Temperature
    • Boost
    I joined the two logs together by matching the rows of data together by aligning the RPMs measured by the JB3 and the BT tool in each of the logs. It was not perfect but it worked out quite well. I arrived at 87 rows of data for this graph. The JB3 logs data at about half of the rate that the BT tool does but this should be enough data to provide a pretty damn accurate picture of performance.


    The following variables of these runs should be noted as they have a big impact on performance and when tweaked will hopefully enable me to get to 11.5 on my stock turbines:
    • JB3 V2.0 15 Ohm Board (Map 10, meth Map 11)
    • CMGS VC2 Meth (80/20 mix, 8psi min to 12psi max progression)
    • 80 degrees F, 50% humidity
    • MS109 Race Gas (101 Motor Octane)
    • AR Designs 3” DPs
    • AMS FMIC
    • BMS DCI
    • BMW Performance Exhaust
    • MT Drag Radials @ 25psi
    I am hopeful that this thread will solicit some commentary on the variables that I can adjust (I will not be adding nitrous) to perhaps push better timing and squeeze a little bit more power out of the car to get me to my goal. If not, at least it will give the community a chance to see some empirical data on one of the faster N54s out there.

    Note: I do realize that if I am able to pull off a 1.5 60’ that I could get there but for the purpose of this discussion let’s assume that my 1.68 60’s continue and that I need to find some additional, safe, power to get me there.

    Here is the graph:

    Click here to enlarge

    Following are the boost and timing logs shown seperately:

    Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Irishace; 07-26-2010 at 05:24 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Damn man, really, really well written and well displayed post. Good job!

  3. #3
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Damn man, really, really well written and well displayed post. Good job!
    Thanks man, really trying to accomplish a couple of things with this; 1. solicit feedback from veterans and more technically inclined community members as I am basically a tuning neophyte and 2. provide some data for the community to learn more about the N54 platform when it is challenged with extreme performance.
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  4. #4
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    really good post man. well written and laid out. the only issue i have is how you have the stomach to run 20+ psi on stock turbines lol. at least you're using racegas but honestly? are you just going for the stock turbo record? because i cannot imagine the turbos lasting too much longer with abuse via high psi, out of their efficiency range. im not worried about you blowing the motor, just wondering why dont you consider a turbo upgrade option. for instance: jp's kit (which is a compressor only upgrade), epl, is the cheapest, RB has a competitively priced kit as im sure you know. and i soon will have the asr kit to compare with, just been a few delays and bad timings (dont wanna leave it there over a weekend). Running any of these turbos, you're doing it safer and more efficiently. What's holding you back other than money?
    Click here to enlarge
    2007 335i Coupe
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    You Sir, have set a standard, for how posts about the tuning of theirs cars, should be

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    I think you can still improve your ignition timing a little bit. It should be above 10 throughout the rpm range for optimal performance. Maybe decrease boost a little bit to around 17psi sustained, and log timing again. I have dual nozzle (CM7 + CM5), my boost is 17.x sustained, and my timing is usually between 12 and 15.
    current: '12 E92 M3

    past: '09 335i E92
    best 1/4 ET: 12.47 on street tires
    best 1/4 trap speed: 115mph

  7. #7
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ocbimmer Click here to enlarge
    I think you can still improve your ignition timing a little bit. It should be above 10 throughout the rpm range for optimal performance. Maybe decrease boost a little bit to around 17psi sustained, and log timing again. I have dual nozzle (CM7 + CM5), my boost is 17.x sustained, and my timing is usually between 12 and 15.
    Appreciate the comment but I am not sure that 17 psi, non-nitrous, is going to get me 11.45-11.5. I need to improve ignition timing at higher boost to squeeze out the ponies to get there. Concensus at the moment is swap the CM5 CM7 setup to dual CM7s and run pure meth on the track. Perhaps I am dreaming now but we will soon find out Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    You Sir, have set a standard, for how posts about the tuning of theirs cars, should be
    Thanks man, appreciate this very much.
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  8. #8
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    Appreciate the comment but I am not sure that 17 psi, non-nitrous, is going to get me 11.45-11.5. I need to improve ignition timing at higher boost to squeeze out the ponies to get there. Concensus at the moment is swap the CM5 CM7 setup to dual CM7s and run pure meth on the track. Perhaps I am dreaming now but we will soon find out Click here to enlarge



    Thanks man, appreciate this very much.
    do you have LSD? If not, you should get one. You can have all the power in the world, but it's worthless if you can't transfer it to the road b/c you have no traction.
    current: '12 E92 M3

    past: '09 335i E92
    best 1/4 ET: 12.47 on street tires
    best 1/4 trap speed: 115mph

  9. #9
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ocbimmer Click here to enlarge
    do you have LSD? If not, you should get one. You can have all the power in the world, but it's worthless if you can't transfer it to the road b/c you have no traction.
    I have been rethinking your previous post, If I can pull better timing on less boost maybe it will net out to more power after all. For the purposes of learning it will be silly to dismiss this as a legitimate opportunity to improve performance.

    What I will do is swap out to dual CM7s and run Map 10 instead of Map 11 and see if I cannot improve. There is no harm in trying out this premise. I will also be certain to log timing on all of these runs to show the impact of these variables.

    I do not have LSD, and your right it is likely a solid input to close some of the gap. That being said, I am cutting 1.68 60's which is pretty difficult to beat. Who knows though, if an LSD can cut .05 out of the 60' then I will gain .1 ET. Then I just need to find a little more power to get me there.
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  10. #10
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    LSD does make a big difference. A must have mod. You won't have to feather the throttle anymore when you lunch. It's one of my favorite mods. (along with the JB3 and Meth Click here to enlarge
    current: '12 E92 M3

    past: '09 335i E92
    best 1/4 ET: 12.47 on street tires
    best 1/4 trap speed: 115mph

  11. #11
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ocbimmer Click here to enlarge
    LSD does make a big difference. A must have mod. You won't have to feather the throttle anymore when you lunch. It's one of my favorite mods. (along with the JB3 and Meth Click here to enlarge
    Funny thing is with DRs I dont feather the throttle when I launch. If I executed the burnout well then I stick when I pin it on launch. If I execute a poor burnout there is a slippage.
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  12. #12
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    ah...someone with the same situation as me.... dual # 7s will take you up over 10 degrees. I was shocked when I saw your timing so low posted. I was a 5 and 7 and couldn 't figure out why I needed so much damn meth but I guess I am not the only one!...
    2007 E90 non sport, JB3 2.0 18ohm, Labonte Progressive Meth, Cooling Mist Solenoid & Nozzles CM5 & M7, Ar DPs, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, M3 19s, M3 Rear Carbon Spoiler, Koni FSD, ZSP Springs

  13. #13
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    Hey Irish do u have a dyno near by you, I know it's been stated somewhere here that you can make the same power at 20 psi and 8 degrees of timing vs 17 psi and 12 degrees of timing... In a perfect world your dyno operator would let you go 1-4 wot on the dyno to see power and timing all in one shot
    JB4LIFE

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mazdaspeed6 Click here to enlarge
    Hey Irish do u have a dyno near by you, I know it's been stated somewhere here that you can make the same power at 20 psi and 8 degrees of timing vs 17 psi and 12 degrees of timing... In a perfect world your dyno operator would let you go 1-4 wot on the dyno to see power and timing all in one shot
    Yes I do, good old Champion Motors. By going to dual CM7s I have dramatically improved my timing (8-10 degrees) and the car is running extremely well. But to your point, I may just take it to the dyno and give it a go and re-log just to see where I stand.
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    Sounds like a plan
    JB4LIFE

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    Hey dual cm-7 is good ? you like it better than single 10 ?

  17. #17
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
    Hey dual cm-7 is good ? you like it better than single 10 ?
    are you asking me? i have 7 and 5 right now and havent logged it. im gonna go to a dual 7 next week

  18. #18
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by n54BoostOnCoke Click here to enlarge
    Hey dual cm-7 is good ? you like it better than single 10 ?
    I cannot compare as I have never run a single 10, I have only run CM5 + CM7 and dual CM7s. The only thought is that the smaller nozzles have better atomization than the larger ones so from the research I have done and the advice I have been given I am a believer in running a dual smaller setups for this reason.
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  19. #19
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    Ok... we are beginning to uncover a difference in the timing in a MT and AT. The procede log I see posted is a MT and this is an AT. Both are running meth the JB3 log is running more and yet the timing isn't as flat and above 10 like on the MT Procede log that its being compared to elsewhere. Is this because AT ad MT have different ranges of optimum timing or is it because of the timing correction thats being done by the procede tune??
    2007 E90 non sport, JB3 2.0 18ohm, Labonte Progressive Meth, Cooling Mist Solenoid & Nozzles CM5 & M7, Ar DPs, Hyperboost Diverter Valves, M3 19s, M3 Rear Carbon Spoiler, Koni FSD, ZSP Springs

  20. #20
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mobilefitt Click here to enlarge
    Is this because AT ad MT have different ranges of optimum timing or is it because of the timing correction thats being done by the procede tune??
    I don't know, good question.

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