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  1. #51
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    Again, just to reiterate, Spec has a terrible reputation. We know the 2+ and 3+ kits work. If you buy pretty much anything else, you are going to be a guinnea pig. Just a word of caution.



    Sorry to bulldog. I know how $#@!ty replacing components can be especially when the install is so much $$$$.

  2. #52
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    Sorry to be the broken record guys but all I can do is share my experience. Clearly the $ is long gone.
    It was with their 3+ kit BTW.
    Cobb Tuned x6 N55 | Custom Catless downpipe | K&N drop in

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bulldog x6 Click here to enlarge
    Sorry to be the broken record guys but all I can do is share my experience. Clearly the $ is long gone.
    It was with their 3+ kit BTW.
    The 3+ kit gave you this issue? I thought this was a Stage 1 clutch?

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    The 3+ kit gave you this issue? I thought this was a Stage 1 clutch?
    the OP is having issue with the Stage 1. My experience and issues revolved around the 3+ kit (designed for the OEM flywheel, auto adjusting clutch). It was ordered directly from SPEC and installed alongside a brand new (not refinished) OEM flywheel and all OEM support components. To be specific, here were the symptoms

    - vibration when putting car into gear and letting off clutch pedal - did this from day 1
    - eventually, shifting gears become very difficult as in the trans gear was very sticky to the point where the shifter literally had to be smashed to get the car out of gear. Bled clutch / changed fluid to make sure with no improvement.
    - removed SPEC clutch, installed a brand new OEM clutch. Worked perfectly. Mechanic measured the clutch and said it was off spec. I don't have his notes but he communicated that to SPEC. At this point, I just wanted to recover something (ANYTHING) to help offset the cost of the two installs plus the cost of an OEM clutch. SPEC just said they would look at the clutch and measure it. I sent the clutch to them - they looked at it, I think they basically said that it was within specifications and sent it back to me. I sold the clutch for next to nothing on the forums (who buys a used clutch anyways) and cut my losses. The buyer of the clutch said it has worked for him, as I was genuinely interested. I suspect SPEC performed some repairs on it when I had sent it to them or they shipped a different part back to me. Either way, I was not interested in putting another one of their parts on my car. SPEC was of no help w/ regard to any compensation around labour.

    Ill give an example of a similar situation: a vendor whom I purchased my downpipe from compensated me for some additional labour work when the DP didn't fit as advertised (did not fit on the slip on fitting for the n55 exhaust on the F10/E7x) . I had to reflange the downpipe at an incremental cost of 150 or 200 so it would fit perfectly to the midpipe. The vendor had no issues comping for it - I sent a receipt from a third party exhaust shop and had the money from the vendor in my paypal account within a couple of days. That is the type of customer service I would say is lacking these days.
    Cobb Tuned x6 N55 | Custom Catless downpipe | K&N drop in

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bulldog x6 Click here to enlarge
    Mechanic measured the clutch and said it was off spec. I don't have his notes but he communicated that to SPEC.
    SPEC looked at it, and said that it was within specifications
    The buyer of the clutch said it has worked for him
    Questions.
    What measure was "off-spec" and by how much in your mechanic's opinion?
    What were the specifications within which Spec said the clutch was?
    Were these measurements changed in any way and by how much when you sent it to the new buyer who didn't have any problems with it?

    I'd like to know what exactly was wrong in the clutch in your opinion. E.g. "I measured the OT to be x, while it should have been in between 0.7x - 0.8x".

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Questions.
    What measure was "off-spec" and by how much in your mechanic's opinion?
    What were the specifications within which Spec said the clutch was?
    Were these measurements changed in any way and by how much when you sent it to the new buyer who didn't have any problems with it?

    I'd like to know what exactly was wrong in the clutch in your opinion. E.g. "I measured the OT to be x, while it should have been in between 0.7x - 0.8x".
    I'd love to know this as well. Its awfully fishy that the clutch was works now for someone else.

    I also cannot comment on the SAC setups. I guess I should of said I know the Spec 3+ non-SAC unit works just fine with a steel SMF. My point is that there are many users running the 2+ and 3+ kits. At this point if either of those doesn't work you either: 1. Received the wrong parts 2. Installed it incorrectly.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I'd love to know this as well. Its awfully fishy that the clutch was works now for someone else.

    I also cannot comment on the SAC setups. I guess I should of said I know the Spec 3+ non-SAC unit works just fine with a steel SMF. My point is that there are many users running the 2+ and 3+ kits. At this point if either of those doesn't work you either: 1. Received the wrong parts 2. Installed it incorrectly.
    However, Spec didn't have any reason not to tell if they had to change something in his kit. Remember, they don't compensate for the work. It might have been exactly the same kit. Can there be differences in the cars?

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    I think it has to do with the tolerances, but still being within their spec... it is very tight between the throw out bearing and pressure plate. I just rest my foot on the clutch and can feel it. It may even be in contact constantly and the beginning of the pedal travel is closing the connection instead of actually moving the fork... i'm not sure, but as you can tell, I am a little worried.

    654, do you have pedal vibration with the slightest pressure.

    Other than above shudder is decreasing with time, chatter seems to be slightly subsiding and rowing the gears is very smooth after 200mi so far.

  9. #59
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    Got word back from spec after seeing the feedback here and they're saying they'll be making the TO bearing adjustable so the end user can choose desired height. I think this is a great idea.
    Click here to enlarge

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    I haven't noticed any vibration, but I'm sure I could go out to test and imagine some at this point Click here to enlarge

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    The pedal vibrates a lot during break in. Its been getting better, but still there. Doubt it will ever be 100% gone, but should subside.

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    6 out of 6 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No

    SPEC non-SAC Kits

    Hello, Guys. This is David Norton with SPEC Clutch. Thanks for pointing us to the thread so we can assist. And thank everyone for the feedback, as that is the most valuable tool for a manufacturer.

    A few quick facts about the non-SAC kits. We developed that option firstly to be able to provide a much more consistent, more reliable, stronger and safer alternative to the self adjuster for those who were looking to make big power..but also to encourage against re-using an unsurfaced dual mass with a performance material, which more often than not seat well. No unsurfaced dual mass will provide optiminum clutch performance or life with any clutch. It is almost like installing new brake pads on a warped rotor.

    We want to have a product to cater to anyone's setup. That's why we have 7 stages of clutches, a noisy flywheel, a quiet flywheel, flywheels for stock clutches, clutches for stock flywheels ( 2800 psi for stock flywheel unit is coming, as well as twins) .

    The overall stackups were set a few years back after we installed the first kit here on an '08 E90. Since the release characteristics of the non-SAC unit are a little different, we set the stackup based on what felt good in the car, not solely based on any stock componentry measurements. We also made the stackup closer to the crank flange, therefore our billet bearings are longer than stock to compensate and cannot be compared the stock bearing dimensions.

    We have sold hundreds of these kits worldwide and have never seen a kit have a preloaded diaphagm until this xi, the subject of this post. We have been working diligently to find a reason this car may have been different. We spoke with the mechanic directly, and he was excellent to communicate with and understood the process of diagnosis. The first task was to compare measurements of what was received, and nothing was out of specification in his system vs what we have been selling all along. It was determined that the only way to make this work in that car was to shorten the bearing, and so that solution was worked through and executed by the mechanic so he would not have to wait an extra day for us to machine a custom bearing and rush ship.

    The engagement does feel higher on these systems. We set it a bit higher for faster shifting. The stages without a marcel spring have a shorter window of engagement. So the pedal comes up from the floor higher before initial engagement.

    There has been no inquiry until this past week to change the feel of this system. We are happy to do so, but we want those who have contacted us this week and posted that they want the higher engagement to be able to have such. To accomplish this, we are going to make the bearing for all these kits 2 or 3-height adjustable. We have brought in a 335is to test three bearing length options and optimize the range. I will post with engagement characteristics of the lengths we choose. I can see an option that would cover a situation similar to the xi in this post, should that ever pop up again. All US N54's should be the same, but I would pay to have the original parts, flywheel to fork and pivot, from this xi shipped to us for evaluation if they are available...?

    As for the pedal vibration during breakin, the billet bearings are not self-aligning. The stock design self aligning brgs are not as beefy as we'd like for the high clamp loads we have put in the plates. So until the clutch fully seats some vibes will be felt.

    I don't want to make this post much longer, but I want to encourage any questions, concerns or requests. SPEC front office are not just salespeople and mechanics, we are enthusiasts who all drive in traffic,race and work on our own cars. No suggestions or concerns will meet deaf ears. We manufacture in house so we can cater to preferences and make adjustments on the fly if needed. If anyone does not like the pedal characteristics of their setup, we will send you a part to change that. Have a great night..!

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SPECis Click here to enlarge
    Hello, Guys. This is David Norton with SPEC Clutch. Thanks for pointing us to the thread so we can assist. And thank everyone for the feedback, as that is the most valuable tool for a manufacturer.
    A few quick facts about the non-SAC kits. We developed that option firstly to be able to provide a much more consistent, more reliable, stronger and safer alternative to the self adjuster for those who were looking to make big power..but also to encourage against re-using an unsurfaced dual mass with a performance material, which more often than not seat well. No unsurfaced dual mass will provide optiminum clutch performance or life with any clutch. It is almost like installing new brake pads on a warped rotor.
    We want to have a product to cater to anyone's setup. That's why we have 7 stages of clutches, a noisy flywheel, a quiet flywheel, flywheels for stock clutches, clutches for stock flywheels ( 2800 psi for stock flywheel unit is coming, as well as twins) .

    The overall stackups were set a few years back after we installed the first kit here on an '08 E90. Since the release characteristics of the non-SAC unit are a little different, we set the stackup based on what felt good in the car, not solely based on any stock componentry measurements. We also made the stackup closer to the crank flange, therefore our billet bearings are longer than stock to compensate and cannot be compared the stock bearing dimensions.
    We have sold hundreds of these kits worldwide and have never seen a kit have a preloaded diaphagm until this xi, the subject of this post. We have been working diligently to find a reason this car may have been different. We spoke with the mechanic directly, and he was excellent to communicate with and understood the process of diagnosis. The first task was to compare measurements of what was received, and nothing was out of specification in his system vs what we have been selling all along. It was determined that the only way to make this work in that car was to shorten the bearing, and so that solution was worked through and executed by the mechanic so he would not have to wait an extra day for us to machine a custom bearing and rush ship.
    The engagement does feel higher on these systems. We set it a bit higher for faster shifting. The stages without a marcel spring have a shorter window of engagement. So the pedal comes up from the floor higher before initial engagement.
    There has been no inquiry until this past week to change the feel of this system. We are happy to do so, but we want those who have contacted us this week and posted that they want the higher engagement to be able to have such. To accomplish this, we are going to make the bearing for all these kits 2 or 3-height adjustable. We have brought in a 335is to test three bearing length options and optimize the range. I will post with engagement characteristics of the lengths we choose. I can see an option that would cover a situation similar to the xi in this post, should that ever pop up again. All US N54's should be the same, but I would pay to have the original parts, flywheel to fork and pivot, from this xi shipped to us for evaluation if they are available...?
    As for the pedal vibration during breakin, the billet bearings are not self-aligning. The stock design self aligning brgs are not as beefy as we'd like for the high clamp loads we have put in the plates. So until the clutch fully seats some vibes will be felt.
    I don't want to make this post much longer, but I want to encourage any questions, concerns or requests, . SPEC front office are not just salespeople and mechanics, we are enthusiasts who all drive in traffic,race and work on our own cars. No suggestions or concerns will meet deaf ears. We manufacture in house so we can cater to preferences and make adjustments on the fly if needed. If anyone does not like the pedal characteristics of their setup, we will send you a part to change that. Have a great night..!
    Hey David, this is Chris with the Stage 3+ Steel SMF setup. It runs awesome and I love the height of the pedal. I am about to beat the crap out of it, thanks for hooking it up!

  14. #64
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by SPECis Click here to enlarge
    Hello, Guys. This is David Norton with SPEC Clutch. Thanks for pointing us to the thread so we can assist. And thank everyone for the feedback, as that is the most valuable tool for a manufacturer.

    A few quick facts about the non-SAC kits. We developed that option firstly to be able to provide a much more consistent, more reliable, stronger and safer alternative to the self adjuster for those who were looking to make big power..but also to encourage against re-using an unsurfaced dual mass with a performance material, which more often than not seat well. No unsurfaced dual mass will provide optiminum clutch performance or life with any clutch. It is almost like installing new brake pads on a warped rotor.

    We want to have a product to cater to anyone's setup. That's why we have 7 stages of clutches, a noisy flywheel, a quiet flywheel, flywheels for stock clutches, clutches for stock flywheels ( 2800 psi for stock flywheel unit is coming, as well as twins) .

    The overall stackups were set a few years back after we installed the first kit here on an '08 E90. Since the release characteristics of the non-SAC unit are a little different, we set the stackup based on what felt good in the car, not solely based on any stock componentry measurements. We also made the stackup closer to the crank flange, therefore our billet bearings are longer than stock to compensate and cannot be compared the stock bearing dimensions.

    We have sold hundreds of these kits worldwide and have never seen a kit have a preloaded diaphagm until this xi, the subject of this post. We have been working diligently to find a reason this car may have been different. We spoke with the mechanic directly, and he was excellent to communicate with and understood the process of diagnosis. The first task was to compare measurements of what was received, and nothing was out of specification in his system vs what we have been selling all along. It was determined that the only way to make this work in that car was to shorten the bearing, and so that solution was worked through and executed by the mechanic so he would not have to wait an extra day for us to machine a custom bearing and rush ship.

    The engagement does feel higher on these systems. We set it a bit higher for faster shifting. The stages without a marcel spring have a shorter window of engagement. So the pedal comes up from the floor higher before initial engagement.

    There has been no inquiry until this past week to change the feel of this system. We are happy to do so, but we want those who have contacted us this week and posted that they want the higher engagement to be able to have such. To accomplish this, we are going to make the bearing for all these kits 2 or 3-height adjustable. We have brought in a 335is to test three bearing length options and optimize the range. I will post with engagement characteristics of the lengths we choose. I can see an option that would cover a situation similar to the xi in this post, should that ever pop up again. All US N54's should be the same, but I would pay to have the original parts, flywheel to fork and pivot, from this xi shipped to us for evaluation if they are available...?

    As for the pedal vibration during breakin, the billet bearings are not self-aligning. The stock design self aligning brgs are not as beefy as we'd like for the high clamp loads we have put in the plates. So until the clutch fully seats some vibes will be felt.

    I don't want to make this post much longer, but I want to encourage any questions, concerns or requests. SPEC front office are not just salespeople and mechanics, we are enthusiasts who all drive in traffic,race and work on our own cars. No suggestions or concerns will meet deaf ears. We manufacture in house so we can cater to preferences and make adjustments on the fly if needed. If anyone does not like the pedal characteristics of their setup, we will send you a part to change that. Have a great night..!
    Welcome.

    Edited to clean up your spacing and also remove your e-mail as posting that is against the rules.

  15. #65
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Questions.
    What measure was "off-spec" and by how much in your mechanic's opinion?
    What were the specifications within which Spec said the clutch was?
    Were these measurements changed in any way and by how much when you sent it to the new buyer who didn't have any problems with it?

    I'd like to know what exactly was wrong in the clutch in your opinion. E.g. "I measured the OT to be x, while it should have been in between 0.7x - 0.8x".
    Ill have to look at my files, they are buried in my storage locker
    Cobb Tuned x6 N55 | Custom Catless downpipe | K&N drop in

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Hello everyone,

    I am the shop owner that this car was repaired at. I am the Mechanic that figured it out. I only wanted to post to clear up any questions that might have come up.

    Real quick about me. I am a small shop located in NY (long Island) I work on them all from 90 HP TDI's to twin turbo BBC 3000+ HP cars. I have over 16 years experience with aftermarket parts and auto repair.

    I have installed MANY SPEC clutches with out problem. All different types of cars. When the customer brought it up to me he was going to buy a SPEC clutch, I said and still do say it was a good pick.

    The car came in with a stage one installed and with an aluminum flywheel. It was install in a different shop. When the clutch failed early I told the customer that he needed a new clutch up front because I didn't want to remove it and wait and we already knew that it wasn't good. We went with the steel flywheel as the car is stock with only small upgrades in the future. This became a problem when the shop that performed the first install didn't install the flywheel stub ( Pilot bearing shaft ) They also had already disposed of the original parts. Later a problem also since I did not have a OE set up to measure.

    When I saw this I quickly looked for a flywheel and a member I think was from here was SUPER helpful and sold me a flywheel and sent it overnight. (itsbrokeagain found it for me. Thanks to the both of you for that.) Transferred the parts and installed. As soon as I went to drive out of the shop I knew it wasn't right. It would slip with any throttle input. I pulled it back in and removed the transmission. I called SPEC looking for any clues as what could be wrong. Did I miss something? I am a big one for do it right. EVERYTHING gets replaced. The clip to the fork, pivot and pilot bearing and release bearing. Maybe I didn't drive the pivot back far enough? The first call went in around 10AM I spoke to someone ( sorry forgot his name ) but very nice and helped as much as he could. I told him I would remove the unit and inspect. I did just that and found nothing. I called again at 2:30 3:30 and 4:30 left message each time.

    While I was waiting for a call back I was looking at everything. I took measurements from the face of the block to the fingers of the clutch and then from the trans face to the bearing face. I found a difference of .109" I started to take some away from the back of the bearing holder aluminum sleeve that is to the back of the trans. Took a little off the fork and was able to make up some but left me with a difference of .055. At this point I was bottoming out the slave cylinder and would have to space it off to make more room but the fork was bottoming out also. It just wasn't right. I called it a night.

    Called SPEC first thing in the morning. I got Matt on the phone. I explained what was going on and we traded phone calls and E mails going over the measurements. This is one thing that I see some questions were brought up. One was over all install height from the finger to the crank face. I was short ( lower ) by about .100" from there measurements. This should if anything helped me. Everything was right. From there measurements they gave me most were exact or close enough not to be the problem. Matt offered to send me a new bearing holder that was .090 shorter. This wouldn't work also since at factory distance of the fork was .109. I didn't want it as far back as I made it go to get me down to .055. Also I wanted some extra clearance. You must have free play on the fork or your loading the thrust on the crank. This will result in engine failure. The only options were to resurface the flywheel but I didn't want to take .200 off of it. Or take the bearing holder down .200 on two faces so that the bearing sits lower in the holder. It has the room between the fork and the bearing for it. Matt and I agreed that this was the best option over cutting the flywheel.

    Matt from SPEC offered to do what it would take to get it done. My problem was that I was already stuck with a car for 7 days that should have been 1 day.(Came in on a Friday) That turned to 5 days with the flywheel. (Tuesday installed Wednesday) Now being a Friday and late plus machine time I just couldn't wait. But I want it to be CLEAR that SPEC was doing all they could to correct the problem.

    I have a full CNC machine shop across the street from me. Good friends and neighbors so when I went in begging for help the did it that day and I had the machine work done by 5PM. I stayed all night and finished the install. Test drove Saturday morning and I love it. Clutch is in the middle as for point of engagement and operation works well as expected.

    Why did this happen? I can not say. Was the aluminum flywheel the same install height? Yes. With a worn clutch disk ( Disk measured .310 ) it was over by only .100". As the clutch disk wears the finger move out in a push clutch. This brought the install height up. If I had a thicker disk ( about .050 thicker new ) it would have been almost exactly the same measurement. Since I don't have the original clutch and flywheel I can not say. All I can say is that the fitment needed to be adjusted.

    As for measurements I think this was long winded enough. Feel free to contact me on the side about that. Matt at Spec has my info and they can also contact me if they need any info I had gathered.

    Whats most important to me is that the problem is resolved. The customer has his car back in working order. he asked if he should be worried about the clutch? I said not at all. It's a quality part. It will work as intended.

    Thanks
    Bill Marino
    Bill Marino Auto Repair Inc.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BMARauto Click here to enlarge
    I am the shop owner that this car was repaired at. I am the Mechanic that figured it out. I only wanted to post to clear up any questions that might have come up.
    Thank you for sharing your input and experience.

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    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    David,

    Left you a voicemail. give me a ring back when you can. Thanks

    -Will

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by POWER10 Click here to enlarge
    David,

    Left you a voicemail. give me a ring back when you can. Thanks

    -Will
    Welcome. Are you having some kind of issues with the clutch?

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Aside from some intermittent subtle chatter and a squeak. Im doing fine with Stage1 and Steel SMFW.

  21. #71
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by POWER10 Click here to enlarge
    Aside from some intermittent subtle chatter and a squeak. Im doing fine with Stage1 and Steel SMFW.
    Good to hear.
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Just so everyone knows.... I AM THE OWNER OF THE CAR THAT THIS THREAD IS BASED ON.

    The support everyone gave in this thread is much appreciated.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by POWER10 Click here to enlarge
    Just so everyone knows.... I AM THE OWNER OF THE CAR THAT THIS THREAD IS BASED ON.

    The support everyone gave in this thread is much appreciated.
    so who is on the hook for paying the extra labor involved due to the clutch measurements being OFF SPEC (no pun intended)?
    Cobb Tuned x6 N55 | Custom Catless downpipe | K&N drop in

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    Thats a good question. Im still waiting to hear back from David at SPEC from my initial voice mail last week.

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    Bueller?...Bueller?...Anyone at SPEC want to contact me about this clutch?


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