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  1. #151
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    If you can't beat em, join em...

    http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/in...sis-guru-bmw-m

    BMW hires Another amg engineer lol
    Nice tip, thanks!!

  2. #152
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nice tip, thanks!!
    Not gonna lie, saw it pop up on fb from $#@!post.com

    Still interesting....it's the second amg engineer hired recently by BMW
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    ESS 6XX kit

  3. #153
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    That is not the basis of conversationhere, Sticky said BMW's have alwasy made more power than AMG's throughout history and I was just pointing out the gross error in his comment. Fact is that AMG's have made more power than many M cars dating back to the early 1980's. Let's not forget about the Mercedes 190E with the 16V Cosworth engine, 186 hp from the factory and a twist of a screwdriver and disconnect a vacuum hose on the wastegate and it was making over 300hp.

    Here is the quote Sticky made that I was addressing.

    "That brings us to today where people act like AMG's have always been more powerful yet the new M5/M6 is more powerful than the E63 even with the performance package. It was BMW's that were always more powerful for the longer period of history. The competition just caught up and BMW focused more on delivering the entire package. Well, now Mercedes has Black Series. And BMW has "i". And "i" think that's bull $#@!."

    LOL... Point taken, I misread that as being AMG Models via MB directly since being acquired. To that end then yes absolutely AMG has made more power than the factory MB or BMW's. BMW tuners like Alpina and Hartge made some sweet rides as well. You lost me on the 109 however the 2.3 16V Cosworth was NA, not sure how you turn up the boost on a NA motor. AMG did have a performance pack if I recall correctly but that I believe was on the 2.5 EVO cars. I could be wrong its been a while
    We stay swingin...
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  4. #154
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    Fact is that AMG's have made more power than many M cars dating back to the early 1980's. Let's not forget about the Mercedes 190E with the 16V Cosworth engine, 186 hp from the factory and a twist of a screwdriver and disconnect a vacuum hose on the wastegate and it was making over 300hp.
    AMG's haven't made more power as there was no official Mercedes-Benz AMG car. Mercedes-Benz had nothing, as stated, as they had no dedicated performance arm
    UNTIL 1999.

    And even once they did as stated the E46 M3 was faster than the C32 AMG. The E39 M5 chewed up and spat out the W210 E55. The M3 laughed at Mercedes for 3 GENERATIONS.

    You bring up tuner cars from the 80's which were not even as good as what BMW had on the table from M. What was the Mercedes answer to the E28 M5? To go have a tuner build you a car because they couldn't? You never walked into any MBUSA dealership and bought an AMG to answer to BMW because they didn't even exist.

  5. #155
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    LOL... Point taken, I misread that as being AMG Models via MB directly since being acquired.
    No you read it correctly. The first AMG's were not more powerful than the BMW M counterparts. And I can think of no AMG car even in its history as an aftermarket tuner that was any better than the comparable offering from a BMW tuner or even than what BMW M was offering themselves.

    AMG once actually offered as a real model in the Mercedes lineup and not one-off special ALA RUF was not faster or more powerful than BMW and for decades there was no Mercedes response/answer. So... um, ya, like I said.

  6. #156
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    AMG's haven't made more power as there was no official Mercedes-Benz AMG car. Mercedes-Benz had nothing, as stated, as they had no dedicated performance arm
    UNTIL 1999.

    And even once they did as stated the E46 M3 was faster than the C32 AMG. The E39 M5 chewed up and spat out the W210 E55. The M3 laughed at Mercedes for 3 GENERATIONS.

    You bring up tuner cars from the 80's which were not even as good as what BMW had on the table from M. What was the Mercedes answer to the E28 M5? To go have a tuner build you a car because they couldn't? You never walked into any MBUSA dealership and bought an AMG to answer to BMW because they didn't even exist.
    Thats not my quote thats his...
    We stay swingin...
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  7. #157
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JRCART Click here to enlarge
    Sticky said BMW's have alwasy made more power than AMG's throughout history
    They have been as AMG was not a BMW M competitor until 1999. There was nothing to compare...

  8. #158
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Such a good question. I have no idea unfortunately. This would be the first M3 to be lighter than than the previous generation if that were the trend but based on the F30 and then looking at the F10 M5 it's not a good sign.

    We also may lose 50/50 weight distribution...
    Yeah, I am more curious about the 50/50 weight distribution myself also, but think too that we will see some weight savings somewhere. I have a feeling dropping as much as been guessed (E46 M3 weight) will be really hard without an insane price increase in the car. One thing that caught my eye the other day though was that the next M3 will have a different designation than the F30, not sure where I saw it now though. F8? F80?

    Not really sure if that helps anything to be honest. Click here to enlarge

  9. #159
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Yeah, I am more curious about the 50/50 weight distribution myself also, but think too that we will see some weight savings somewhere. I have a feeling dropping as much as been guessed (E46 M3 weight) will be really hard without an insane price increase in the car. One thing that caught my eye the other day though was that the next M3 will have a different designation than the F30, not sure where I saw it now though. F8? F80?

    Not really sure if that helps anything to be honest. Click here to enlarge
    Ya F80/F82. We'll see...

  10. #160
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    I couldn't be happier that they are releasing a inline 6 TT that is under powered in their number one tuner car ever. Thank you BMW!

  11. #161
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    C63 AMG FTW!

  12. #162
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    I'm very interested to see this S55. whether is TT or biturbo, is it an N55 block (i bet it is, so does that mean open deck?), what internals does it have (S65 started busting rod bolts on the 08 model, fixed for later years), etc. this HP number is very disappointing to me and if in fact BMW is reserving the extra 30 HP for a "performance package" i'm going to lose all respect for them. I'm already on the C63 bandwagon, as i drove one and an e92 M3 back to back one day and loved the C63.

  13. #163
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    I'm very interested to see this S55. whether is TT or biturbo, is it an N55 block (i bet it is, so does that mean open deck?), what internals does it have (S65 started busting rod bolts on the 08 model, fixed for later years), etc. this HP number is very disappointing to me and if in fact BMW is reserving the extra 30 HP for a "performance package" i'm going to lose all respect for them. I'm already on the C63 bandwagon, as i drove one and an e92 M3 back to back one day and loved the C63.
    I would bet more on the N55 top end than bottom end. Let's see how cheap BMW is getting though.

    The C63 will have a performance package too I bet.

  14. #164
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    yeah but the M3 with performance package still won't reach what the C63 is putting down HP wise stock without the PP. I know M isn't about peak HP numbers but there has to be a point were they realize they're getting smashed by the competition. Most M3/C63/RS4 owners don't track (road course) their cars. Test drives are going to sell a lot of cars. Which one is more fun to drive? I already know Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I would bet more on the N55 top end than bottom end. Let's see how cheap BMW is getting though.

    The C63 will have a performance package too I bet.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  15. #165
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    yeah but the M3 with performance package still won't reach what the C63 is putting down HP wise stock without the PP. I know M isn't about peak HP numbers but there has to be a point were they realize they're getting smashed by the competition. Most M3/C63/RS4 owners don't track (road course) their cars. Test drives are going to sell a lot of cars. Which one is more fun to drive? I already know Click here to enlarge
    If this undercuts the C63 by 700 pounds it isn't getting smashed. The M3 with DCT makes up for the power deficit by having the more efficient transmission, more efficient gearing, and lighter weight. Stock for stock the M3 doesn't get smashed and the C63 needs its performance package to have an advantage. That goes to show the importance of efficiency and not just raw power.

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