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  1. #51
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    Rumors are saying BMW has targeted the E46 M3 for weight. That's going to be what affects the Merc the most. Currently the C63 is sitting a tick under 4k lbs. That new engine will push it over 4k lbs. If BMW stays true to these rumors, the power to weight ratio will be a huge factor in comparisons. I'm expecting the M3 to be another bench mark car. However, another part of me is thinking BMW doesn't care about this hp race between them Audi and Mercedes. It's getting heated very quickly but BMW is trying to produce their cars too quickly to get them on the market at the right time to stay ahead of the curve. We will have to wait until the new M3 is out to see where BMW is going with the M cars. The M5/6 haven't dissappointed too much as far as the engines are concerned.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    How so...Benz said they are working towards weight savings as well. And then there will be the two extra cylinders.

    Where exactly are they going to get this 200 pounds? Carbon fiber roof, trunk lid, hood...won't even make a dent in that 200 lbs. I think that other forum is spreading rumors BMW won't be able to back up.
    I'm thinking it most definitely will be through the use of carbon fiber. They just collaborated with Boeing to organize and develop carbon fiber at their plant in Washington.
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    i find it amusing that it's 'only 444' hp.. i understand why, but take it out of context and it's hilarious.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    AMG gets pissed off from BMW M peeing on them and stealing their lunch money circa 2003. They deliver a supercharged W211 E55. The 600 model V12's get turbos. They raise the stakes with the 65 AMG to a level nobody thought they would which BMW has no answer for and still doesn't. BMW pretty much pretends the Benz twin turbo V12's with over 600 horsepower don't exist.

    firstly.. did you actually camp a dealership? that would be awesome haha

    and secondly.. yeah it's a bit disappointing that their N74B60 only makes 544hp, and it only exists in a luxobarge.. i mean, i'm sure it's a beautiful drive, but if they can get the F10 M5 to 560+ hp, the N74 certainly has a lot LOT more room to crank up the boost...

    give us an S74B60(tu? lol) dammit!

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    I think the M3 will have either 320kW (435hp) or 325kW (440-445hp). But if you compare the power bands coupled with the almost certain weight reduction, the new M3 will be worlds better than any M3 before it and also better than any Mercedes C63 or Audi RS4/RS5. It's not fair to compare the M3 with Black Series (you have the M3 GTS or CSL for that comparison), you must compare with the regular C63 AMG. I really like the small engine / decent power philosophy because we need efficiency, that's a fact of the present and future. The only problem will be that if the engine is 3.0 liters, it will probably not be very tuneable given the fact that the N54 335i is kind of maxed out at 400-420whp (on PUMP gas) even with RB turbos.

    An 8000RPM redline would not surprise me, and it will also set the M3 apart from others especially given the fact that it's a turbo engine.

    I really hope they will also get the engine sound right, but of course it will be challenging for an inline 6 engine. The current M3 does not sound as good as other american V8s, it's a shame.

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    I also came across an article mentioning e46 weight was in their sights. Horsepower is one thing, but weight is truly another - handling should be crisper and sharper!

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    From my point of view as a potential buyer in the future, the new M3 needs to be extremely competitive with power and weight as well as still drive the way an M3 should. I fear that the power may not be enough and that simultaneously the move to a turbocharged setup and other F30 components may dull the driving experience.

    If the M3 stops being an M3 then in my mind, I'd rather have the C63 or any other brutally powerful car. I can forgive being down on power but only if it adheres to the M3 formula. I love driving my S54. It's amazing. I want the new M3 to remind me of that... not my 335. If it's too much like my 335 then I'd rather buy the Merc and shred tires everywhere I go.

    Yes, I'm a sellout. But I think I speak for a lot of potential enthusiast buyers when I say that it needs to put a grin on my face when I drive it, because I know the C63 AMG does...

  8. #58
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3_WC Click here to enlarge
    How so...Benz said they are working towards weight savings as well. And then there will be the two extra cylinders.
    The AMG Mercs are also getting AMG spec all wheel drive systems, which adds lots of weight & hurt performance (kills power/weight ratio, can negatively impact handling characteristics of the car, etc)

    Because we can only go off the sedan comparison (E90 vs. F30), here's where things are going:
    • E90 335i Curb Weight: 3650 lbs (taken from passenger door)
    • F30 335i Curb Weight: 3555 lbs (taken from BMWUSA.com)


    So at this point, BMW has shaved ~100 lbs from the previous model 335i while making the car slightly bigger. With the M3, the DCT & heavy duty cooling systems will add weight, hopefully all the lightweight materials (CF roof, aluminum doors, etc etc) can offset & lose a few spare pounds.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    Yes, I'm a sellout. But I think I speak for a lot of potential enthusiast buyers when I say that it needs to put a grin on my face when I drive it, because I know the C63 AMG does...
    impossible! your the minority of the speakers, but somehow make up the majority of prospective buyers and speakers, so your opinion doesnt count. making you and every other owner smile is not on the critique sheet that determines if a car is awesome or not..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Rumors are saying BMW has targeted the E46 M3 for weight. That's going to be what affects the Merc the most. Currently the C63 is sitting a tick under 4k lbs. That new engine will push it over 4k lbs. If BMW stays true to these rumors, the power to weight ratio will be a huge factor in comparisons. I'm expecting the M3 to be another bench mark car. However, another part of me is thinking BMW doesn't care about this hp race between them Audi and Mercedes. It's getting heated very quickly but BMW is trying to produce their cars too quickly to get them on the market at the right time to stay ahead of the curve. We will have to wait until the new M3 is out to see where BMW is going with the M cars. The M5/6 haven't dissappointed too much as far as the engines are concerned.
    I don't understand how they are targeting the E46 M3 weight. The C63 is 4000 pounds now and the W205 is expected to get bigger.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    The AMG Mercs are also getting AMG spec all wheel drive systems, which adds lots of weight & hurt performance (kills power/weight ratio, can negatively impact handling characteristics of the car, etc)
    Good point on the 4Matic.

  12. #62
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Brey335i Click here to enlarge
    From my point of view as a potential buyer in the future, the new M3 needs to be extremely competitive with power and weight as well as still drive the way an M3 should. I fear that the power may not be enough and that simultaneously the move to a turbocharged setup and other F30 components may dull the driving experience.

    If the M3 stops being an M3 then in my mind, I'd rather have the C63 or any other brutally powerful car. I can forgive being down on power but only if it adheres to the M3 formula. I love driving my S54. It's amazing. I want the new M3 to remind me of that... not my 335. If it's too much like my 335 then I'd rather buy the Merc and shred tires everywhere I go.

    Yes, I'm a sellout. But I think I speak for a lot of potential enthusiast buyers when I say that it needs to put a grin on my face when I drive it, because I know the C63 AMG does...
    Exactly, if it becomes all about brute force might as well just get the AMG.

    If BMW keeps the performance even thanks to power to weight, I'd prefer that and think everyone else would too as that is much more M then big heavy cars with twin turbo motors to balance it out. Like the F10 M5.

  13. #63
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I don't understand how they are targeting the E46 M3 weight. The C63 is 4000 pounds now and the W205 is expected to get bigger.
    Like I said, there was a rumor. Read it in Bimmer mag as well as on bimmerfile.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Like I said, there was a rumor. Read it in Bimmer mag as well as on bimmerfile.
    The good news it's that BMW will be releasing a N63tu TwinPower Turbo valvetronic derivation 4.0 V8 tt w/9.3:1cr rated at 402hp/600Nm by adaptation of a crankshaft drive of 80mm stroke from 88.3mm for the China market 1st in the 6/7 series. The basic engine is virtually identical to the V8 engine of the BMW F10 M5. So, if BMW can one day throw this in the entry level M cars it's would be wonderful to compete against AMG upcoming C class 4.0l V8 M1xx, Audi/Bentley RS7 4.0L V8 TFSI PLUS (larger main bearing, 9.3:1cr, higher duration cams version), etc.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by m54b25 Click here to enlarge
    The good news it's that BMW will be releasing a N63tu TwinPower Turbo valvetronic derivation 4.0 V8 tt w/9.3:1cr rated at 402hp/600Nm by adaptation of a crankshaft drive of 80mm stroke from 88.3mm for the China market 1st in the 6/7 series. The basic engine is virtually identical to the V8 engine of the BMW M5. So, if BMW can one day throw this in the M car it's would be wonderfull
    I did not know this, where did you hear this?

    Why don't they just throw that in the M3?

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    Now I don't want to generalise and beleive me i normally dont but it seems alot of the US market is more bothered by straight line speed.

    If you can be bothered then watch this. I thought the whole point of the M3 was its oustanding handling?

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    0 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
    seems alot of the US market is more bothered by straight line speed.
    It's the 335 effect. It lacks in the areas the M3 excels and has essentially turned BMW into a one trick pony measured by acceleration.

    The M3 is all about having the best all around car. Some people don't get it.

  18. #68
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by kev335i Click here to enlarge
    Now I don't want to generalise and beleive me i normally dont but it seems alot of the US market is more bothered by straight line speed.

    If you can be bothered then watch this. I thought the whole point of the M3 was its oustanding handling?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaZExdTHHjY
    Rofl, "M3 drives have no friends." 9:12
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Rofl, "M3 drives have no friends." 9:12
    That's because they are too highly evolved to associate with the average person.

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    I really enjoyed this article, and even a bit moreso the linked article "Mercedes already raising the stakes in the V8 arena". It looks like the next C63 AMG will be a pretty hot car, not a fan of the mandatory AWD on the S package (that's how I interpreted it) - but it looks like they made the system very light, and use torque vectoring, so it might not be too bad. This way, it will stop owners complaining about the ridiculous tire wear issue that the car has by 50% (or whatever the torque split is). Click here to enlarge

    Regarding the next M3, I am very curious what will be offered to us. I really WISH they did something cool, and offered us an NA option, but I am betting it's not going to happen. I am guessing, as the article alludes, a 444 HP (just like 555 HP with the M5/6, or 333 HP with the previous M3) N54B30TU... We shall see.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Rofl, "M3 drives have no friends." 9:12
    That wasn't the point of my post!! but yes hes a very funny guy for those in US that haven't seen UK's Top Gear you should get on youtube there are some top vid's and Jeremy Clarkson will argue he's right about anything. For those that watch the vid and think the stig wasn't driving well believe me he can drive.



    again the m3 is i quote 'crap' because he can't drift it yet when he reviews any M they normally come out with top marks all round! it all depends on what point he is trying to make
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  22. #72
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    I really enjoyed this article, and even a bit moreso the linked article "Mercedes already raising the stakes in the V8 arena". It looks like the next C63 AMG will be a pretty hot car, not a fan of the mandatory AWD on the S package (that's how I interpreted it) - but it looks like they made the system very light, and use torque vectoring, so it might not be too bad. This way, it will stop owners complaining about the ridiculous tire wear issue that the car has by 50% (or whatever the torque split is). Click here to enlarge

    Regarding the next M3, I am very curious what will be offered to us. I really WISH they did something cool, and offered us an NA option, but I am betting it's not going to happen. I am guessing, as the article alludes, a 444 HP (just like 555 HP with the M5/6, or 333 HP with the previous M3) N54B30TU... We shall see.
    I always make sure to provide links in articles to all the other relevant information. I think I do it well to keep people apprised of what is going on.

    It is mandatory on the S but you can just up the boost anyway. It's just software, no big deal.

    Love the damn all wheel drive though now. Tempting.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I did not know this, where did you hear this?

    Why don't they just throw that in the M3?
    http://www.germanboost.com/showthrea...50i-and-X6-50i

    How could you not know about it when you already posted about this exact motor? It's on sale now.

    I think this motor is too big and heavy for the F80 M3, though, maybe if they were going to continue the trend of making their cars bigger, heavier and more powerful it would have been a good candidate but they've made it clear that they are targeting a several hundred pound weight reduction this time and that is going to be damn near impossible with a TTV8.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Remonster Click here to enlarge
    How could you not know about it when you already posted about this exact motor? It's on sale now.
    Probably because that isn't the exact same motor it's a 4.4 liter...

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Rumors are saying BMW has targeted the E46 M3 for weight. That's going to be what affects the Merc the most. Currently the C63 is sitting a tick under 4k lbs. That new engine will push it over 4k lbs. If BMW stays true to these rumors, the power to weight ratio will be a huge factor in comparisons. I'm expecting the M3 to be another bench mark car. However, another part of me is thinking BMW doesn't care about this hp race between them Audi and Mercedes. It's getting heated very quickly but BMW is trying to produce their cars too quickly to get them on the market at the right time to stay ahead of the curve. We will have to wait until the new M3 is out to see where BMW is going with the M cars. The M5/6 haven't dissappointed too much as far as the engines are concerned.
    Going by what info on their respective websites. Curb weight of C63 is listed at 3,649 lbs. M3 at 3704 lbs.

    Where do you arrive at your theory that the C63 will be over 4,000 lbs? When Benz themselves said weight reduction is on their priority list as well.


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