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  1. #26
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    If weighs ~3,400 lbs, that's a weight to power ratio of 7.66, which is similar than the M5 and should perform along the lines of the CRT/GTS, maybe a bit less given suspension will be more street-friendly vs the GTS/CRT. What's troubling is that BMW had a press conference at the Detroit Auto show, and when pressed with questions, the BMW guy said something to the effect of "More powerful may not necessarily mean more horsepower" (ie performance improvement will be via weight reduction and more torque). So weight will be critical to the equation. Makes the case for a tuned E9x M3 with bolt-ons not being that far off from the new gen just in terms of straight line performance (and will still have warranty if simple bolt ons), not to mention the sublime experience of the S65 engine.

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mhabs Click here to enlarge
    If weighs ~3,400 lbs, that's a weight to power ratio of 7.66, which is similar than the M5 and should perform along the lines of the CRT/GTS, maybe a bit less given suspension will be more street-friendly vs the GTS/CRT. What's troubling is that BMW had a press conference at the Detroit Auto show, and when pressed with questions, the BMW guy said something to the effect of "More powerful may not necessarily mean more horsepower" (ie performance improvement will be via weight reduction and more torque). So weight will be critical to the equation. Makes the case for a tuned E9x M3 with bolt-ons not being that far off from the new gen just in terms of straight line performance (and will still have warranty if simple bolt ons), not to mention the sublime experience of the S65 engine.
    I'll have something interesting regarding this later in the week.

  3. #28
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    I think it will be the same performance as the m5..roughly. Same 1/4 mile, better handling than the m5
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  4. #29
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    Cool... yeah here's the link in case anyone missed it. Personally think the Car magazine guess is probably closer to reality (BMW will sell more if they can actually show a hp gain, however modest it will be).

    http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/de...uild-both.html

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    What they don't make up for in a HP increase they could make up in weight reduction - just sayin...

  6. #31
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    I will just sit where I am until I see some big improvement in numers by a tunner with little mods

  7. #32
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    How does it work with tuned turbocharged cars....if you increase PSI, won't dealer easily see in stored memory (even if flashed back) and void the warranty? For N/A cars, so long as tune doesn't result in rev limit increase or you go past speed limiter and you have only standard bolt ons (with cats remaining), there are no potential warranty issues.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I will just sit where I am until I see some big improvement in numers by a tunner with little mods

  8. #33
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    How does it work with tuned turbocharged cars....if you increase boost PSI, won't dealer easily see in stored memory (even if flashed back) and void the warranty? For N/A cars, so long as tune doesn't result in rev limit increase or you go past speed limiter and you have only standard bolt ons (with cats remaining), there are no potential warranty issues.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
    I will just sit where I am until I see some big improvement in numers by a tunner with little mods

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    I think it will be the same performance as the m5..roughly. Same 1/4 mile, better handling than the m5
    It won't hit the same trap but ET will be close.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mhabs Click here to enlarge
    Cool... yeah here's the link in case anyone missed it. Personally think the Car magazine guess is probably closer to reality (BMW will sell more if they can actually show a hp gain, however modest it will be).

    http://www.edmunds.com/auto-shows/de...uild-both.html
    Of course they will build both, don't know why Edmunds thinks that is a revelation.

  11. #36
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    Man i was hoping the hp would be around 480 with weight reduction. If the new M3 doesnt impress me i might have to look into the new C63.
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  12. #37
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    True... actually the worthwhile part of the article was at the bottom, which quoted an M guy about power on the M3 at a press conference.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Of course they will build both, don't know why Edmunds thinks that is a revelation.

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by mhabs Click here to enlarge
    True... actually the worthwhile part of the article was at the bottom, which quoted an M guy about power on the M3 at a press conference.
    I like what he said about the curb weight... but not the power.

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    Less weight and a modest power increase coupled with some aftermarket mods and all will be well.
    We stay swingin...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sledgehammer Click here to enlarge
    Less weight and a modest power increase coupled with some aftermarket mods and all will be well.
    As a potential owner, I'd be comfortable with that approach, it should make for a better handling vehicle. A great power to weight ratio is why I bought a 1M. Click here to enlarge

  16. #41
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    Was talking to Jake about the new M3 when I got ProTuned, we both agreed that if the new motor is as responsive to tuning & basic bolt-ons like the N54, we'll be golden. BUT it really depends a lot on the specific turbos that are used & how much aftermarket boost we'll be able to add.

    It obviously a LOT easier to increase performance vs. losing weight, so I'm not the least bit upset with the strong emphasis on weight reduction
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  17. #42
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    1 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    So much emphasis on horsepower... frick we all grow accustomed and numb to our horsepower within a few months anyways. It's all about the DRIVE ...and Nurburgring lap times. Click here to enlarge I'm betting the new M3 will be quicker around the track than the new C63. PS this is nothing new, Mercedes has historically had the higher HP cars, but the true enthusiast vehicle is the BMW.

  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DubSport Click here to enlarge
    PS this is nothing new, Mercedes has historically had the higher HP cars, but the true enthusiast vehicle is the BMW.
    Only the latter part of your statement is true. It is only with the last couple generations that Mercedes has really taken the HP/torque crown.

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    Not buying this extreme weight reduction rumor. There is only so much weight they can take off modern cars.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Only the latter part of your statement is true. It is only with the last couple generations that Mercedes has really taken the HP/torque crown.
    Thinking back... Practically every year of BMW there was at the time a more powerful offering by Mercedes. Not necessarily direct competitors but I'm just sayin. So no this is not earth shattering news sticky... we expected this.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DubSport Click here to enlarge
    Thinking back... Practically every year of BMW there was at the time a more powerful offering by Mercedes. Not necessarily direct competitors but I'm just sayin. So no this is not earth shattering news sticky... we expected this.
    E30 M3 more powerful than Mercedes 190E. Handed it its ass in DTM.

    E28 M5 basically had no competition.

    E34 M5 comes along, still nothing.

    E36 M3, no real competition from Mercedes. Absurdly powerful in Euro trim with the S50. Still somewhat hard to believe it was that ahead of its time. BMW got away with giving the USA almost 100 less horsepower and the car was STILL better than everything.

    E46 M3 comes out, makes everyone wet. I camp out at the dealership until I get one basically. Mercedes only had AMG models to rival after they had a controlling interest in AMG acquiring 51% officially in 1999. This led to the supercharged W203 C32 AMG. Benz douchebags proclaim superiority. I take my stock E46 M3 and race a stock C32 AMG. I win, race after race, and post video on bimmerforums and mbworld. Much cheering ensues, parade thrown, banned from MBworld and Bimmerforums for a while due to rubbing it in the doubters faces.

    E39 M5 is still king at this time. W210 E55 has only 350 horsepower and the E39 M5 spits in its face and laughs. Not only does it have more power but a better chassis along with a real manual transmission.

    AMG gets pissed off from BMW M peeing on them and stealing their lunch money circa 2003. They deliver a supercharged W211 E55. The 600 model V12's get turbos. They raise the stakes with the 65 AMG to a level nobody thought they would which BMW has no answer for and still doesn't. BMW pretty much pretends the Benz twin turbo V12's with over 600 horsepower don't exist.

    Regardless, BMW's remain the better drivers cars. BMW makes a mistake with the E60 M5 by not delivering more displacement than the E39 M5 but the motor has 100 horses on it and up top its faster than the E55. But, Mercedes-AMG closed the gap strictly power wise.

    That brings us to today where people act like AMG's have always been more powerful yet the new M5/M6 is more powerful than the E63 even with the performance package. It was BMW's that were always more powerful for the longer period of history. The competition just caught up and BMW focused more on delivering the entire package. Well, now Mercedes has Black Series. And BMW has "i". And "i" think that's bull $#@!.

  22. #47
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    2 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    E30 M3 more powerful than Mercedes 190E. Handed it its ass in DTM.

    E28 M5 basically had no competition.

    E34 M5 comes along, still nothing.

    E36 M3, no real competition from Mercedes. Absurdly powerful in Euro trim with the S50. Still somewhat hard to believe it was that ahead of its time. BMW got away with giving the USA almost 100 less horsepower and the car was STILL better than everything.

    E46 M3 comes out, makes everyone wet. I camp out at the dealership until I get one basically. Mercedes only had AMG models to rival after they had a controlling interest in AMG acquiring 51% officially in 1999. This led to the supercharged W203 C32 AMG. Benz douchebags proclaim superiority. I take my stock E46 M3 and race a stock C32 AMG. I win, race after race, and post video on bimmerforums and mbworld. Much cheering ensues, parade thrown, banned from MBworld and Bimmerforums for a while due to rubbing it in the doubters faces.

    E39 M5 is still king at this time. W210 E55 has only 350 horsepower and the E39 M5 spits in its face and laughs. Not only does it have more power but a better chassis along with a real manual transmission.

    AMG gets pissed off from BMW M peeing on them and stealing their lunch money circa 2003. They deliver a supercharged W211 E55. The 600 model V12's get turbos. They raise the stakes with the 65 AMG to a level nobody thought they would which BMW has no answer for and still doesn't. BMW pretty much pretends the Benz twin turbo V12's with over 600 horsepower don't exist.

    Regardless, BMW's remain the better drivers cars. BMW makes a mistake with the E60 M5 by not delivering more displacement than the E39 M5 but the motor has 100 horses on it and up top its faster than the E55. But, Mercedes-AMG closed the gap strictly power wise.

    That brings us to today where people act like AMG's have always been more powerful yet the new M5/M6 is more powerful than the E63 even with the performance package. It was BMW's that were always more powerful for the longer period of history. The competition just caught up and BMW focused more on delivering the entire package. Well, now Mercedes has Black Series. And BMW has "i". And "i" think that's bull $#@!.
    Good point sir...+1 Rep
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  23. #48
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    You should find out how much the cars weighs before determining that it is outgunned. If it drops 200lbs over the e90 then it will eat mercs for breakfast.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    You should find out how much the cars weighs before determining that it is outgunned. If it drops 200lbs over the e90 then it will eat mercs for breakfast.
    That might be why the article was posted with a question mark.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    You should find out how much the cars weighs before determining that it is outgunned. If it drops 200lbs over the e90 then it will eat mercs for breakfast.
    How so...Benz said they are working towards weight savings as well. And then there will be the two extra cylinders.

    Where exactly are they going to get this 200 pounds? Carbon fiber roof, trunk lid, hood...won't even make a dent in that 200 lbs. I think that other forum is spreading rumors BMW won't be able to back up.


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