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  1. #1
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    E60 M5 V10 and in-town performance

    Hi guys,

    Somewhat of a lurker on germanboost and on MBW and I've been in the market for a high performance german car for a while now.. my choices have gone from S55 to C63 to E55/CLS55 and now E60. Had been set on the E/CLS for a very long while now but some youtube videos and the fuel tank issue (as if airmatic wasn't bad enough) really put me off the 55Ks. Well, there's enough background info,

    I currently drive a 02 S430 and have driven an E55 recently and didn't go WOT, but felt the torque. Problem is I don't know anyone who would let me test drive given my age.. but I've done my homework and it seems that what breaks on the M5 isn't as bad as what breaks on an E55.

    My question to all you is how well does the E60 M5 perform in town, does it provide enough thrust to play around and kick me in the seat?, not really in comparison to the E55 but to my S430. I've examined dyno sheets and the low end torque curves look quite similar. The S430 is just adequate in terms of low end thrust and I do pretty much 80% of my driving in town, but having not yet been spoiled by big power yet I really don't know what to expect.

    i have plenty of time before I can pick one up but some input would be greatly appreciated since its always on my mind

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    It's a 5.0 liter V10 with 500 horsepower. It's got plenty to drive around town and kick you in the seat.

    If you're into low end torque, the E55 will be more your style.

    From what I see I think the E55 will be more your thing.

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    You haven't done enough research if your assessment is that the E60 M5 won't/can't be horrific on repairs..

    I copied the info below from another post I made on another thread.. Everything on the list needed replacement on my M5. I'm at $36,370 worth of repairs on my car to date in less than 2 years of ownership.. Add to that $200 oil changes, tires, brakes and $30 in gas every single day you drive the thing.

    Copied:

    Amazing car to own and drive, but can be a nightmare when things begin to fail. MY 09-10, from what I know, seem to be pretty well sorted and don't have the issues that plagued the 06-07 MY's. I will say that this is not a car to own without great warranty coverage. TRUST ME.

    I don't have issues with the SMG on a daily basis. It has a hill assist system that will hold the car for I think 2 seconds before it begins to roll like a normal manual transmission. I did have to get my SMG pump replaced and fortunately my aftermarket warranty covered it.

    Most common failure areas for the E60 M5 with repair cost (A mix between dealer and indy)
    Vanos High Pressure Pump $6k
    Vanos Solenoid/Adjustment Unit (2 Units) $4k Each
    Steering Angle Sensor $1k
    Alternator/Voltage Regulator $1k
    Passenger Seat Mat Sensor $2k
    CCC/iDrive Computer $1,500
    Idle Actuators (2 Units) $1K Each
    Throttle Actuators (2 Units) $1,800 Each
    SMG Pump $4,800
    SMG Clutch $5k
    Rod Bearings (Buy a new or used motor) ($16k-$30k)

    Please be aware that aftermarket warranty companies are wither no longer covering the E60 M5 or they charge an outrageous rate for a plan. Also a lot of them do not cover the clutch replacement. From what I understand, BMW CPO also does not cover the clutch but their extended maintenance plan does..

    PS: My best friend had a 06' E55 and traded it in for a C6 Zo6 after $11k in repairs in a 1 year period. I'm not insinuating that all these cars have problems.. Just don't get into one if you aren't prepared to cover it if a bad repair situation occurs.

    With that being said.. The M5 is a great car around town and by far the most fun to drive out of all you listed. I've driven everything you mentioned many times.
    Last edited by TZ04XJR; 01-14-2013 at 02:44 AM.
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    I had an E60M5 as a daily driver for almost 3 years. The car is fine around town, but the SMGIII takes some time to get used to. The clutch engagemetn can be quite hars, for example when parking the car.

    The only really bad thing is fuel consumption, get ready to be a frequent guest at the pump as the car has a 70Liter fuel tank and consumes about 25L/100km around town.
    1995 BMW M3GT nr:111/350 TwinTurbo and some other mods.

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    Bad fuel consumption, jerky transmission, expensive parts, not much power in low end(compared to the E55). But in return, you get the feeling of a race-car. If you accept it's problems, it will become one of the most amazing cars for you, if you don't, well, you will find it hard to like.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    You haven't done enough research if your assessment is that the E60 M5 won't/can't be horrific on repairs..

    I copied the info below from another post I made on another thread.. Everything on the list needed replacement on my M5. I'm at $36,370 worth of repairs on my car to date in less than 2 years of ownership.. Add to that $200 oil changes, tires, brakes and $30 in gas every single day you drive the thing.

    Copied:

    Amazing car to own and drive, but can be a nightmare when things begin to fail. MY 09-10, from what I know, seem to be pretty well sorted and don't have the issues that plagued the 06-07 MY's. I will say that this is not a car to own without great warranty coverage. TRUST ME.

    I don't have issues with the SMG on a daily basis. It has a hill assist system that will hold the car for I think 2 seconds before it begins to roll like a normal manual transmission. I did have to get my SMG pump replaced and fortunately my aftermarket warranty covered it.

    Most common failure areas for the E60 M5 with repair cost (A mix between dealer and indy)
    Vanos High Pressure Pump $6k
    Vanos Solenoid/Adjustment Unit (2 Units) $4k Each
    Steering Angle Sensor $1k
    Alternator/Voltage Regulator $1k
    Passenger Seat Mat Sensor $2k
    CCC/iDrive Computer $1,500
    Idle Actuators (2 Units) $1K Each
    Throttle Actuators (2 Units) $1,800 Each
    SMG Pump $4,800
    SMG Clutch $5k
    Rod Bearings (Buy a new or used motor) ($16k-$30k)

    Please be aware that aftermarket warranty companies are wither no longer covering the E60 M5 or they charge an outrageous rate for a plan. Also a lot of them do not cover the clutch replacement. From what I understand, BMW CPO also does not cover the clutch but their extended maintenance plan does..

    PS: My best friend had a 06' E55 and traded it in for a C6 Zo6 after $11k in repairs in a 1 year period. I'm not insinuating that all these cars have problems.. Just don't get into one if you aren't prepared to cover it if a bad repair situation occurs.

    With that being said.. The M5 is a great car around town and by far the most fun to drive out of all you listed. I've driven everything you mentioned many times.
    I understand both can be nightmares so I've planned on getting a warranty of some type and I guess now they are rather similar when it comes to cost of ownership, perhaps slightly less on the AMG (although the seemingly incurable and DANGEROUS fuel sender/tank problem plaguing the 211/219 chassis is.. terrible in comparison, no matter the cost).. anyways if I'm unable to pick up a warranty for either car I'll be willing to roll the dice and pay up which I've been doing with the S430 but the M and AMG are worth the repairs.

    I definitely sound like an AMG guy and prefer the brand over M but I drove some small stuff over the summer and I've got a priority for handling now, and I like everything about the M5 just a bit more than the E55. I'll probably enjoy the SMG, can live with the mileage.. but my main concern is just the low speed/low rpm performance, which seems fine with all the responses so far, unless somebody has something concerning to share it really looks like its down to a test drive

    thanks guys

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    the M5 is one hell of a machine, but if you dont have a warranty, it can get VERY expensive to repair..my transmission was just replaced..cost me $100..cost the warratny company $9,900. Is the tranmission jerky..yes but once you learn how to drive it, its not that bad..if you worried about power, the M5 has plenty of it. Low end torque is an issue, but if youre in the proper gear and know what youre doing, it really isnt that big of a deal..Ive owned my M5 for about 6 months now..and besides everyone telling me what a beatiful car it is..it is definetly the best car I have ever owned..it does have its issues, but that just adds to the character of the car..and the F1 sound of the V10 is addicting to say the least

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Drunkenup Click here to enlarge
    I understand both can be nightmares so I've planned on getting a warranty of some type and I guess now they are rather similar when it comes to cost of ownership, perhaps slightly less on the AMG (although the seemingly incurable and DANGEROUS fuel sender/tank problem plaguing the 211/219 chassis is.. terrible in comparison, no matter the cost).. anyways if I'm unable to pick up a warranty for either car I'll be willing to roll the dice and pay up which I've been doing with the S430 but the M and AMG are worth the repairs.

    I definitely sound like an AMG guy and prefer the brand over M but I drove some small stuff over the summer and I've got a priority for handling now, and I like everything about the M5 just a bit more than the E55. I'll probably enjoy the SMG, can live with the mileage.. but my main concern is just the low speed/low rpm performance, which seems fine with all the responses so far, unless somebody has something concerning to share it really looks like its down to a test drive

    thanks guys
    If you get the M5 adding the Evolve Tune is a must. It will instantly wipe away any notion that you have bad low RPM drivability. You will feel a vast improvement below 4k RPM..

    Also when you test drive the M be certain you have all the correct M button settings in the iDrive. P500s, S6 shift speed and MDM traction(to be safe).
    09' M3 AA Gen 2 Level 2 S/C
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    Past:
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    10' C63 AMG
    10' SVT Raptor 6.2
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    10' Audi S5 6-Speed
    04' SVT Lightning
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    06' E60 M5 SMG
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    ...
    Please be aware that aftermarket warranty companies are wither no longer covering the E60 M5 or they charge an outrageous rate for a plan. Also a lot of them do not cover the clutch replacement. From what I understand, BMW CPO also does not cover the clutch but their extended maintenance plan does..

    ...
    I was able to get a warranty plan (bumper to bumper) at a pretty decent rate..there are still a few companies out there offering warranties..mine is Q certified I think, and they covered the tranny without a problem

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    I was able to get a warranty plan (bumper to bumper) at a pretty decent rate..there are still a few companies out there offering warranties..mine is Q certified I think, and they covered the tranny without a problem
    Do you mind PM'ing me the provider and price you paid? Also your year and current mileage? I maxxxxxed out my last plan and no longer have any warranty.. I guess you could say I'm shopping for new coverage.
    09' M3 AA Gen 2 Level 2 S/C
    03' Viper Roadster- FBO
    10' X5M
    09' Cayenne GTS
    11' Jaguar XFR
    08' CLS63 AMG
    08' EVO X GSR- FBO
    13' F10 550i M Sport

    Past:
    07' C6 Z06
    11' M3 Comp DCT
    10' C63 AMG
    10' SVT Raptor 6.2
    12' BOSS 302
    11' E92 335i
    09' C63 AMG -
    01' C5 Z06- White, FBO+Cam
    11' E92 335is- Sapp Blk
    08' E82 135i- Sapphire Blk
    10' Audi S5 6-Speed
    04' SVT Lightning
    08' E90 335i 6-Speed- Blk
    08' C63 AMG- Blk
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Blk Raven
    06' E60 M5 SMG
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Good posts @fast4door and @TZ04XJR
    Thanks!
    09' M3 AA Gen 2 Level 2 S/C
    03' Viper Roadster- FBO
    10' X5M
    09' Cayenne GTS
    11' Jaguar XFR
    08' CLS63 AMG
    08' EVO X GSR- FBO
    13' F10 550i M Sport

    Past:
    07' C6 Z06
    11' M3 Comp DCT
    10' C63 AMG
    10' SVT Raptor 6.2
    12' BOSS 302
    11' E92 335i
    09' C63 AMG -
    01' C5 Z06- White, FBO+Cam
    11' E92 335is- Sapp Blk
    08' E82 135i- Sapphire Blk
    10' Audi S5 6-Speed
    04' SVT Lightning
    08' E90 335i 6-Speed- Blk
    08' C63 AMG- Blk
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Blk Raven
    06' E60 M5 SMG
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    Do you mind PM'ing me the provider and price you paid? Also your year and current mileage? I maxxxxxed out my last plan and no longer have any warranty.. I guess you could say I'm shopping for new coverage.
    sure thing man, Ill send it over

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Good posts @fast4door and @TZ04XJR
    thanks!

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    Do you mind PM'ing me the provider and price you paid? Also your year and current mileage? I maxxxxxed out my last plan and no longer have any warranty.. I guess you could say I'm shopping for new coverage.
    sent..btw forgot to put it in PM, but my current mileage is 56k

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by fast4door Click here to enlarge
    sent..btw forgot to put it in PM, but my current mileage is 56k
    Got it! Thanks I appreciate it!
    09' M3 AA Gen 2 Level 2 S/C
    03' Viper Roadster- FBO
    10' X5M
    09' Cayenne GTS
    11' Jaguar XFR
    08' CLS63 AMG
    08' EVO X GSR- FBO
    13' F10 550i M Sport

    Past:
    07' C6 Z06
    11' M3 Comp DCT
    10' C63 AMG
    10' SVT Raptor 6.2
    12' BOSS 302
    11' E92 335i
    09' C63 AMG -
    01' C5 Z06- White, FBO+Cam
    11' E92 335is- Sapp Blk
    08' E82 135i- Sapphire Blk
    10' Audi S5 6-Speed
    04' SVT Lightning
    08' E90 335i 6-Speed- Blk
    08' C63 AMG- Blk
    09' CTS-V Sedan- Blk Raven
    06' E60 M5 SMG
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TZ04XJR Click here to enlarge
    If you get the M5 adding the Evolve Tune is a must. It will instantly wipe away any notion that you have bad low RPM drivability. You will feel a vast improvement below 4k RPM..

    Also when you test drive the M be certain you have all the correct M button settings in the iDrive. P500s, S6 shift speed and MDM traction(to be safe).
    I was planning on keeping it mostly stock, would definitely do RPi ram air, but I don't want to run the risk with a tune, especially if I get a warranty. Worried about the few documented engine failures floating around and some other stuff.. sounds like an LCI model might be best even if they are slightly out of budget

    Guy in my town (west windsor, nj) had an M5 and a interlagos E46 M3 w/ an unpainted/unbadged CSL style trunk but got rid of both a while ago and has been swapping around with an E30, turbodiesel W124 and now he's got a black 1M and E39 530, wonder if any of you guys might know him or anyone in the area

    so I'll keep up the research and hopefully I'll be in by the end of this year!

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    ^^IMO, if you're not gonna reasonably mod it (tune, intake, exhaust Click here to enlarge) then there are other cars that are better options with less maintenance liabilities.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    ^^IMO, if you're not gonna reasonably mod it (tune, intake, exhaust Click here to enlarge) then there are other cars that are better options with less maintenance liabilities.
    well is the drivetrain truly a liability? I haven't made a verdict yet but so far it sounds like I may run into vanos or an smg pump but a catastrophic failure isn't completely out of the question it seems and mods like a tune wouldn't help with anything, especially if I've got a warranty to use.. between the AMG and M5 I was not planning on doing anything beyond breathing mods anyways. What alternatives do you have in mind? I've looked at everything suitable

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Drunkenup Click here to enlarge
    between the AMG and M5 I was not planning on doing anything beyond breathing mods anyways. What alternatives do you have in mind? I've looked at everything suitable
    Well do you need 4 doors or are you open to 2? What's your max budget, the absolute, no-cross threshold? I assume you'd prefer to stay in a nice, luxury Euro car if you're choosing between an W211 E55 & E60 M5.

    I quickly searched on AutoTrader & saw that a W211 E55 falls somewhere between $27-45k, depending on mileage & factory options. In that price range I'd also suggest the Audi S4, S5, RS4 and S6, some C63 + E63 AMGs, BMW E9x M3 (2 or 4 Doors). Those are the big German 3 manufacturers, so if you branch out from there you're looking at the original CTS-V (have plenty of go but the interior is lacking compared to the German cars) & the Chrysler 300 SRT-8 (personally not a fan of the car at all, but you gotta respect a 6.1L Hemi).
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by benzy89 Click here to enlarge
    Well do you need 4 doors or are you open to 2? What's your max budget, the absolute, no-cross threshold? I assume you'd prefer to stay in a nice, luxury Euro car if you're choosing between an W211 E55 & E60 M5.

    I quickly searched on AutoTrader & saw that a W211 E55 falls somewhere between $27-45k, depending on mileage & factory options. In that price range I'd also suggest the Audi S4, S5, RS4 and S6, some C63 + E63 AMGs, BMW E9x M3 (2 or 4 Doors). Those are the big German 3 manufacturers, so if you branch out from there you're looking at the original CTS-V (have plenty of go but the interior is lacking compared to the German cars) & the Chrysler 300 SRT-8 (personally not a fan of the car at all, but you gotta respect a 6.1L Hemi).
    I expect to spend no more than 25-28K so I'm not squeezed for repairs or a warranty, 30K is the max.. that pretty much eliminates anything euro you mentioned but the higher mileage M5s and E63s and mid-high E55s. That said, I'm really set on those few except the 63.. too much of a compromise/mixed character between the 55 and M5

    anyways I just came to ask about well how the M5 works in low speed, city conditions. pretty much how it feels if I just give it half/three-quarters throttle from idle or low rpms below 50 mph

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Drunkenup Click here to enlarge
    anyways I just came to ask about well how the M5 works in low speed, city conditions. pretty much how it feels if I just give it half/three-quarters throttle from idle or low rpms below 50 mph
    Then go drive one (an M5 or M6 cause it'll feel nearly the same). It'll prob be similar to the S65 M3s that really don't wake up until you're in the upper 3/4 of the RPMs
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    For city driving I'd take the E55 any day over the M5. Sure it's fun to rev that V10 out....but it gets old around town whereas the E55 has all the low end torque which is exactly what you want in the city.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    but it gets old around town whereas the E55 has all the low end torque which is exactly what you want in the city.
    I feel that may be the case- having driven the E55 I feel that the torque might get old since its really the only thing that's more enjoyable about it than the M5.

    A year ago I had my mind set completely on the E55 but after having really warmed up the M5 recently I'm finding myself making excuses for the AMG to keep considering it. It's down to a test drive now.. all I got to do is find one- thanks guys hope this wasn't a waste of time

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