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  1. #601
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Do you realize the m3 gts had a dct tranny vs the regular auto on the b3 gts? Results are now even more impressive given less power on the b3 gts Click here to enlarge that b3 was tuned for what 350whp? We have stock 335i tuned on pump doing that with ease
    Wait. so it does have less power? Torque no longer matters? Because this is not what you were saying yesterday. If anything, these numbers show the exact opposite of everything you were saying yesterday.

    Two cars of similar weight, similar power, one having MUCH more torque. The M3 beats the more torquier car by a FULL second 0-100 MPH, TWO full seconds 0-160. It follows that it wins on both Dunlop Wet by SIX FULL SECONDS, and wins on Nurburgring by ONE FULL SECOND. Yes, it does lose by .3s on their test track, and I will just give that to you even though the Alpina has better tires in the test.

    So, the M3 GTS wins in TWO out of THREE courses, and ALL of the acceleration tests. How does this prove that an N54 is better? It's not - this proves it.

    </end thread>

    I changed my mind, the N54 loses by 2 full seconds to 160 MPH - think about that. It's not due to having 42 more peakhorsepower, I can tell you that right now. It's called proper gearing and area under the curve.

  2. #602
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Which numbers?
    Dude, you have to be joking, this is the last time I post it. I even put colors on there to help you out:
    Attachment 24138Attachment 24138

  3. #603
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    I dont think ur attaching these right..errors out bringing them up
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  4. #604
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    All this debate over the chassis and motor combo is amazing.

    For my money I would do the E46 with the A&A blower as stated previously. But any combo would be fast there are ways to go faster or as fast for less money. C5 & C6 Vettes, 5.0 Mustangs, the new Camaro 1LE come to mind. But the 370Z is a nice option, 1M, used 996 GT3, Cayman R, Boster S are all great cars as well. My point is BMW has several great platforms to choose from and they will all get you there the question is how.

    NA V8 or FI V8
    NA I6 or FI I6
    FI I6 or Modded FI I6

    Alll will work and it seems the best of all those combos has FI...
    We stay swingin...
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  5. #605
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    This alpina car has a mild tune, intake and a exhaust. Not even a catback exhaust, just a add on. It's not a fbo 335. 90% of our 335's on this forum would beat this car. Suspension isn't clear but looks like kw coilovers and wheels/tires from a quick google search.
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  6. #606
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    you konw.. turbos... lag. air compression takes time... turbo spools at low rpm and has to spool higher to get air compressed after yu floor the pedal... more boost more lag...simple physics...
    any bells ringing.. nothing probably.....
    maybe you should get an other job if you dont get such simple things.

  7. #607
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    In Hockenheim the Alpina is slightly faster,Nordschleife same lap times.

    Anyone surprised a car handles $#@! on cup tires in the wet?

    And that a DCT with launch control has better 0-... times?

    Plus the flexibility acceleration is better on the DCT due to its gearing?

    Gimme a break...

  8. #608
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    They can't..... Neither of them has a car that's running LMFAO!!!!!!

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by THATDONFC Click here to enlarge
    You guys are funny. How about you stop cluttering @Irishace thread and take it to the track. So far all I have read is my car is fast blah blah blah. No need for the back and forth babbling. I'd like to see a video of a race or a 1/4 mile run or something.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  9. #609
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by S62R Click here to enlarge
    In Hockenheim the Alpina is slightly faster,Nordschleife same lap times.

    Anyone surprised a car handles $#@! on cup tires in the wet?

    And that a DCT with launch control has better 0-... times?

    Plus the flexibility acceleration is better on the DCT due to its gearing?

    Gimme a break...
    1 second around a track is not a "slightly faster" - nor is 2 seconds around a track.

    If you look at the flexibility, you will see that even before the two cars SHIFT GEARS, the M3 is ahead - that's everything up until the 1-2 shift on the GTS, which is aoubt 90 KM/H - the M3 still wins, that's not DCT related.

    Also, FLEXIBILITY NUMBERS are WITHOUT SHIFTS.

    Cup tires should be BETTER in the wet - not worse.

    Regarding TURBO LAG, that's the ENTIRE POINT OF WHAT I HAVE BEEN TRYING TO CONVEY THE ENTIRE TIME.

  10. #610
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    what if the new m3 has an electric turbo assisting the other ones? lag would be gon than... but you dont know in depth specs and driveability ist not about beeing faster.
    but you really dont get it, this statement has proven it finally. Nothing more to say on top of this.

  11. #611
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    Bottom line is pretty much any car can be fast and/or handle great with enough money. It's all about how much you want to spend, what your goal is and do you have favorites. I know people that have dumped $20k into Hondas and love them. That's their cup of tea. That Honda will smoke many cars on this forum with ease in a straight line. It would probably get smoked by a stock M3 though on a road course. It's all about what you want to do. Many people get Miatas and are more than happy on road courses and don't need an M3 to be happy. I have an obsession with 2nd Gen Eclipse GSXs. That's just my thing. I will own one one day and prob drop $20k into it and people will call me crazy the first time the motor blows. Oh well, to each thier own.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  12. #612
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    I just don't understand after seeing these numbers how this isn't sufficient evidence that this is a better motor for motor sport/racing. That's all I am trying to say. For fun? I have no idea - but I like high revving NA engines, I take my car to a track and don't want to deal with cooling issues, turbo lag, poor response, etc. These numbers are indisputable evidence of the S65 being "better".

  13. #613
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    The Alpina is 0.3 seconds faster in Hockenheim.
    Same lap times on the Ring.

    I know that flexibility numbers are without shifting,thanks.

    And cup tires are semi slicks,$#@! to drive in the wet.

  14. #614
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    This alpina car has a mild tune, intake and a exhaust. Not even a catback exhaust, just a add on. It's not a fbo 335. 90% of our 335's on this forum would beat this car. Suspension isn't clear but looks like kw coilovers and wheels/tires from a quick google search.
    Please stop with the nonsense. That N54 has rebuilt internals, lower compression ratio, great LSD - etc. Alpina builds are no joke, and I am willing to bet that NONE of the N54 powered cars would keep up with that car on a road course.

  15. #615
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by S62R Click here to enlarge
    The Alpina is 0.3 seconds faster in Hockenheim.
    Same lap times on the Ring.

    I know that flexibility numbers are without shifting,thanks.

    And cup tires are semi slicks,$#@! to drive in the wet.

    My lord - dude, what are you reading??? The number for the Ring are as follows as stated in the images I show above:

    7:49.3 (Alpina)
    7:48.3 (M3)
    Last edited by inlineS54B32; 01-15-2013 at 10:51 AM. Reason: typo

  16. #616
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    My lord - dude, what are you reading??? The number for the Ring are as follows as stated in the images I show above:

    7:49.3 (Alpina)
    7:48.3 (M3)
    I am reading the German sport auto test posted above.

  17. #617
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Please stop with the nonsense. That N54 has rebuilt internals, lower compression ratio, great LSD - etc. Alpina builds are no joke, and I am willing to bet that NONE of the N54 powered cars would keep up with that car on a road course.
    How is it nonsense? I'm quoting the specs of the car. It makes 402hp/398tq....not wheel, crank. My car makes more power than that. I'm just trying to point out that it isn't a fbo 335.
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  18. #618
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    why r we talking about the ractrack vs street again? these are both cars sold for the street with that being the primary duty... i think everyone knows the S65 is a better track motor, this discussion is getting real stupid.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  19. #619
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Wait. so it does have less power? Torque no longer matters? Because this is not what you were saying yesterday. If anything, these numbers show the exact opposite of everything you were saying yesterday.

    Two cars of similar weight, similar power, one having MUCH more torque. The M3 beats the more torquier car by a FULL second 0-100 MPH, TWO full seconds 0-160. It follows that it wins on both Dunlop Wet by SIX FULL SECONDS, and wins on Nurburgring by ONE FULL SECOND. Yes, it does lose by .3s on their test track, and I will just give that to you even though the Alpina has better tires in the test.

    So, the M3 GTS wins in TWO out of THREE courses, and ALL of the acceleration tests. How does this prove that an N54 is better? It's not - this proves it.

    </end thread>

    I changed my mind, the N54 loses by 2 full seconds to 160 MPH - think about that. It's not due to having 42 more peakhorsepower, I can tell you that right now. It's called proper gearing and area under the curve.
    1) your attachments give errors back and don't work so I can't see what you've circled
    2) That article has 3 tracks tested. TWO of them have the B3 GT3 on top of that ranking. One of them has the M3 GTS on top. Skid pad was won by
    3) Overall results at the end show the B3 GT3 coming out on top overall
    4) B3 GT3 is undertuned and has more on pump gas let alone if it were to go full bolton
    5) M3 GTS uses a MUCH better DCT transmission, and the B3 GT3 still wins on two of the three tracks
    6) B3 GT3 has LIFT when tested in the wind tunnel (bad) while the M3 GTS has downforce, test at 200km/hr, which is disadvantaging the B3 GT3 and even so still comes out on top
    Click here to enlarge

  20. #620
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    Agreed. There are some passionate people on here that truely believe their cause is the best. There are some that have crossed the fanboy line and sound just plain ingnorant.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    why r we talking about the ractrack vs street again? these are both cars sold for the street with that being the primary duty... i think everyone knows the S65 is a better track motor, this discussion is getting real stupid.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  21. #621
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    This alpina car has a mild tune, intake and a exhaust. Not even a catback exhaust, just a add on. It's not a fbo 335. 90% of our 335's on this forum would beat this car. Suspension isn't clear but looks like kw coilovers and wheels/tires from a quick google search.
    Back to your earlier discussion about the M3 GT4 race car. Can you walk into any dealership and purchase an Alpina B3? The fact there's 99 of them built, good luck.

    Now my discussion is this. Look at the tire difference. Semi slicks vs nearly decent street tires. Michelin PSC's are the best damn street tire out there. Nothing better. That's the reason the B3 is keeping up with the M3 GTS. Same tires, same track, good comparison. Still, we're beating a dead horse. They are both great cars.

    And you 335i owners are so damn funny. Band wagon jumpers kind of funny.
    Honda CBR 1000RR, Superbike Supply, Arrow, HRC, BMC, Lee's Cycle, Galfer, EBC, Revzilla, AXO, Dainese, Scorpion Helmets

    Honda Grom, most fun you'll ever have on 2 wheels.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bobS Click here to enlarge
    How is it nonsense? I'm quoting the specs of the car. It makes 402hp/398tq....not wheel, crank. My car makes more power than that. I'm just trying to point out that it isn't a fbo 335.
    Right, but you said - and I quote: "This alpina car has a mild tune, intake and a exhaust. Not even a catback exhaust, just a add on. It's not a fbo 335. 90% of our 335's on this forum would beat this car. Suspension isn't clear but looks like kw coilovers and wheels/tires from a quick google search."

    So, what you are inferring is that 90% of the FBO 335is on this forum would be that Alpina, which is MORE than doubtful. We aren't talking peak power - and I am not sure how to get this through to anyone, it's NOT important in a racecar. It's about area under the curve. Furthermore, Alpina is basically a re-engineer - this N54 is HEAVILY modified, and there is a reason for that. Because in stock form, it's not usable as a race motor. Regarding the exhaust - it is a catless race pipe from Akrapovic from what I can see - but this could be an older version. It's basically fully tuned - they wouldn't make a race car and make it worse than a 335i with a freaking Juicebox on it... I can't understand how you can think your car would be even comparable to this car - this is a car that is well over 100k Pounds - well over 100k USD, it's no joke, IT IS a proper race car, and I am the first to admit it.

    However, it's still not equal to a less torquey (which you think will help the car somehow - and yes, it would if you don't shift gears) M3 GTS - theM3 beats this car by a FULL second 0-100 MPH, TWO full seconds 0-160.

    It follows that it wins on both Dunlop Wet by SIX FULL SECONDS, and wins on Nurburgring by ONE FULL SECOND. Yes, it does lose by .3s on their test track, and I will just give that to you even though the Alpina has better tires in the test.

    So, the M3 GTS wins in TWO out of THREE courses, and ALL of the acceleration tests. How does this prove that an N54 is better? It's not - this proves it.

    That's not a small amount - period. And this is a purpose built N54 made to compete in a racing series. Compared to the GTS, it's not there - it's good, but it's not AS good as the S65 powered car. Period. It's indisputable at this point.

  23. #623
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by StinkyM Click here to enlarge
    Back to your earlier discussion about the M3 GT4 race car. Can you walk into any dealership and purchase an Alpina B3? The fact there's 99 of them built, good luck.

    Now my discussion is this. Look at the tire difference. Semi slicks vs nearly decent street tires. Michelin PSC's are the best damn street tire out there. Nothing better. That's the reason the B3 is keeping up with the M3 GTS. Same tires, same track, good comparison. Still, we're beating a dead horse. They are both great cars.

    And you 335i owners are so damn funny. Band wagon jumpers kind of funny.
    LOL -- it's like they use fake facts, or quotes to back their statements up. So some moron posts in another forum "Look, the Alpina won!" - and they could be referring to one data point, even though it loses everywhere else.

    Once they find that they are incorrect, and that the car literally got slaugtered even though it has a TON more torque (their most important attribute) to 100 and 160 MPH (1 and 2 seconds slower respectively) - they start making things up that make no sense. It's unbelievable. I don't understand it. I am the first to admit that there are better cars and engines than what I have, it's not out of this world. However, in the N54/55 world, this engine is special - and can be "tuned" better than a freaking professional engine builder can do. All for the low price of 1000 dollars. I mean, what the $#@!?

    Both great cars, indeed. The tire thing - I am letting them have, I won't even dispute it. The M3 won in 2/3 tracks, ALL acceleration numbers - but lost to one track (used in the article) - so in their mind, the Alpina won. Makes sense. Until you think of the tires. (which I am not using as an excuse). The M3 GTS is just a better platform with a better engine.

  24. #624
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    1) your attachments give errors back and don't work so I can't see what you've circled
    2) That article has 3 tracks tested. TWO of them have the B3 GT3 on top of that ranking. One of them has the M3 GTS on top. Skid pad was won by
    3) Overall results at the end show the B3 GT3 coming out on top overall
    4) B3 GT3 is undertuned and has more on pump gas let alone if it were to go full bolton
    5) M3 GTS uses a MUCH better DCT transmission, and the B3 GT3 still wins on two of the three tracks
    6) B3 GT3 has LIFT when tested in the wind tunnel (bad) while the M3 GTS has downforce, test at 200km/hr, which is disadvantaging the B3 GT3 and even so still comes out on top
    @dzenno@ProTUNING Freak, please look at the top chart at the URL we are looking at. It provides ALL the performance data, the Alpina has worse accelerative flexibility [which is what is touted as being SO GOOD about the N54/55], loses at the Nurburgring (7:49.3 vs 7:48.3 for the M3), loses at the Dunlop handling track [wet] (1:42.0 vs 1:36.8], loses at ALL acceleration numbers - INCLUDING ALL SPEEDS BEFORE THE M3 even SHIFTS GEARS (showing that even off the line, without shifting [DCT is not helping here] - it's faster all the way to 200 km/h or 120 MPH - at that speed, the M3 is ahead by 2 FULL SECONDS.

    The results that you are looking at (the subjective numbers like 62) are given by the magazine the scores by the writer of the article - in other words subjective, and also they gave the Alpina the edge in a tie due to it's lower displacement (which is fair). The Alpina DID WIN on their test track, however - it lost on the other two tracks. It also lost in every other performance metric other than some skidpad and slalom. I am talking about engine right now. I am trying to show that "this under tuned" car as you say - is NOT UNDERTUNED. It's a purpose build race engine by Alpina with NEW STRONGER INTERNALS (rebuilt engine), among other things. This is leap years ahead of "bolt ons" - it's ridiculous to compare your car to this, it's not even close.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by inlineS54B32 Click here to enlarge
    Furthermore, Alpina is basically a re-engineer - this N54 is HEAVILY modified, and there is a reason for that. Because in stock form, it's not usable as a race motor.
    Seriously now, where are you getting your facts? They just drop compression to 9.4:1 ABSOLUTELY same everything else. I don't think we can go on discussing things like this as there's CLEARLY a lack of understanding of the complete topic here and an even larger lack of in-car experience in a road course prepped N54 for most people here.
    Click here to enlarge

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