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  1. #26
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    If you are honestly looking for something that can drag, track and be streetable; immediately forget the S54. It is inherently too slow, the supercharged ones are a waste of money and the turbo ones aren't worth the money. The n54 is great but I would not use it on a road course... too much can go wrong and the engine inherently has cooling problems. Even though it looks more expensive; the S65 appears to be the proper option for you. You really don't need a 15K supercharger to make the car run well...

    Or buy an EVO9 and resolve all the issues at once.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  2. #27
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge
    Oh ya, where are the AA kits @Irishace? Would've been nice to see them stacked up in there as well
    Click here to enlarge

  3. #28
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    I personally think you are going to have a hard time being fully compliant on the emissions side of things. I might be wrong, but I don't think it's possible with any of your options. Again, could be wrong.

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    One thing you also might want to consider, especially for road course/racing purposes, look at the curves at the end of their line (meaning the end of the rev range for each car)... Look at the N54 power curve - which drops very considerably as RPMs increase. If you are road racing, you are not going to be in the meat of the powerband at redline to the next gear. On the other hand, look at the S54/S65, you are at higher power levels at high RPM/next gear... When you say the M cars are pale in comparison in respect to the RB powered cars, I am assuming you are talking about drag racing. On the road course however, it's a different story.

  5. #30
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    What an amazing comparo @Irishace Great Job!
    2011 335is DCT, moving to Italy, looking for new car friends Click here to enlarge

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    What an amazing comparo @Irishace Great Job!

    Agreed - +1ed

  7. #32
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Oh ya, where are the AA kits @Irishace ? Would've been nice to see them stacked up in there as well
    The S54 AA kit has the exact same power curve and HP as the ESS Vt2-575 kit. I probably should have dropped in the AA S65 kit, my apologies here Andrew. I will update the graph and include the AA options. AA should not be ignore as it is an incredible company.
    Last edited by Irishace; 01-11-2013 at 04:30 PM.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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  8. #33
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    This thread is so good it should be a sticky in all three forums (N54, S54 and S65 Click here to enlarge)
    Click here to enlarge

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    If you are honestly looking for something that can drag, track and be streetable; immediately forget the S54. It is inherently too slow, the supercharged ones are a waste of money and the turbo ones aren't worth the money. The n54 is great but I would not use it on a road course... too much can go wrong and the engine inherently has cooling problems. Even though it looks more expensive; the S65 appears to be the proper option for you. You really don't need a 15K supercharger to make the car run well...

    Or buy an EVO9 and resolve all the issues at once.
    Thanks. the feedback on the S54, again I am theorycrafting on it as I have never had seat time in one which I desperately need. IMO, the S65 is the worst of the bunch right now because of cost. That will certainly change over time, but right now its incredibely prohibitive and frankly the power is underwhelming. You can get the same result in the S54 at a fraction of the cost.

    Not a huge fan of Japanese 4 bangers, appreciate the comment though.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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  10. #35
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    everything i have read and heard about the e46 m3 is its a joy to drive... Id seriously consider starting with that car because your getting a great chasis and package off the bat....

    your n54 mods will need full coils, rear diff, axles, oil cooler, fan?, stock frame upgreaded turbos, wheels, m3 suspension parts , and bolt onn which will add up quick.... it wil cost you more than half you your mod money to get similar track handling characteristics of the two M cars with no bolt ons
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
    Current - 16 Jeep Wrangler - Few Mods
    Looking for a n54 project e90/e82

  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    everything i have read and heard about the e46 m3 is its a joy to drive... Id seriously consider starting with that car because your getting a great chasis and package off the bat....

    your n54 mods will need full coils, rear diff, axles, oil cooler, fan?, stock frame upgreaded turbos, wheels, m3 suspension parts , and bolt onn which will add up quick.... it wil cost you more than half you your mod money to get similar track handling characteristics of the two M cars with no bolt ons
    Well the others needs axles if you'll drag race as well...the advantage on the N54 is that everything is usually about 1/2 the cost to begin with, including insurance Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #37
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Well the others needs axles if you'll drag race as well...the advantage on the N54 is that everything is usually about 1/2 the cost to begin with, including insurance Click here to enlarge

    Its a good point, when I was researching insurance I was shocked. I am a 7 star rater driver and when I got quotes from my insurance company I was floored. As soon as the letter M is attached to the car, the premium immediately doubles. For fun asked about a 2002 996 TT and they quoted me $3400 per year.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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  13. #38
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    cant go wrong with an n54...
    JB4LIFE

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    For fun asked about a 2002 996 TT and they quoted me $3400 per year.
    They probably wouldn't even quote me LOL
    Click here to enlarge

  15. #40
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Irishace Click here to enlarge
    The following modifications were selected for each vehicle:
    E82 135i: JB4 G5 ISO with Flash ($600), Meth Kit ($529), DCI ($95), Intercooler ($689), DPs ($379), RB Turbos ($3,799), Coilovers ($1,600), LSD ($1,295), Tires ($1,500), Clutch ($1200), installation ($3,00)
    E46 M3: ESS VT2-550 SC Kit ($8,495), Evolve Tune ($800), Fabspeed Headers ($1000), Sub-frame reinforcement ($800), Tires ($1,500), Clutch ($1000), Installation ($3,000)
    E92 M3: ESS VT2-625 SC Kit ($11,995), Tires ($1,500), Clutch ($1500), Installation ($2,000)
    I think install pricing is WAAY off.

    "
    • Car delivers a smooth, consistent 500rwhp
    • Car is durable and as reliable as possible for a modified vehicle
    • Car performs superbly on a road course and can handle its own on the strip or highway
    • Outlay the minimum amount of capital to achieve my goals

    "

    smooth is relative, but you can knock of the n54 when compared to the other 2
    500hp is relative as well, but knock off the E46
    i think consistancy knocks off the E46 and N54

    road course, is driver preffered, and even more so when you factor in aftermarket components. but then its about trade-offs, e46/n54 need to be evaluated
    handle its own, E46 is the least capable in reference to these 3 cars
    E46 costs the least, proven route
    N54 is 2nd in price, but more attention required
    M3, mandating a higher stage s/c is overkill for "500hp" , cost of ownership is not cheap, MPG is low, very low.

  16. #41
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    S65 M3=
    6psi kit, VF/AA/EVolve,
    Ebay Xpipe.
    DONE

    Drive a dct m3, you MAY opt for it, It has an attraction that words do not describe @rick@defiv can elaborate
    but a 6MT would be cheaper.

    im clearly biased, but an S65 M3 comes with all the required performance parts you need, highly reliable. I even know an M3 for sale that would suit you just fine.. once you embrace DCT

  17. #42
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    Install price is $3000 on the N54 and it is not way off, I have done this before on the N54 and added up the price tags of my installs and added $1300 for RB turbos which is reasonable. On the others, you could be right, I balled parked.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    S65 M3=
    6psi kit, VF/AA/EVolve,
    Ebay Xpipe.
    DONE

    Drive a dct m3, you MAY opt for it, It has an attraction that words do not describe @rick@defiv can elaborate
    but a 6MT would be cheaper.

    im clearly biased, but an S65 M3 comes with all the required performance parts you need, highly reliable. I even know an M3 for sale that would suit you just fine.. once you embrace DCT
    Not going down the automatic tranny path, its one of the reasons I ditched my 135i. I want to get back into a stick, I miss that visceral driving feel. I understand your bias to S65, no doubt its a great power plant but its nowhere near cost effective for me at the moment. Its almost double the price of a 135i which I just could not justify.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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  19. #44
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    I would also appreciate it if the admins could move this back to the N54 section, not sure why it was moved in the first place other than it has S54 and S65 content as well.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
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  20. #45
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    Typically the older the car is the cheaper the parts are. Considering the huge uphill it takes to convert a stock 335is or 135i to M levels for a road course, I would just start with the E46 M3. You can do a 135i or 335i and make more power for less, but then you have a heavier platform that needs a lot of suspension work. If cost is a little less of an issue and you want something 5-7 years newer the 135i/335i is a no brainer.

  21. #46
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    Mr. @Irishace, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having to read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    LOL J/K!!

    Awesome post man. Super informative especially since I'm in the same boat as you right now. For example, I sold my previous 350z. Have been in love with the E46 M3 since I was 11 years old, dead set on buying one after I sold my z. Sold the Z. One of my friends convinced me e92 was the way to go. Drove one and liked it very much. Dead set on buying that now. My opinion changes once again and I become dead set on purchasing a E90 M3 instead of the coupe. Now, I'm back to buying an boosted E46 M3. Being so indecisive has caused me loads of stress over the past 7 months, but this post definitely puts me at ease!

    Mind you, I was searching for each of these cars religiously. So every time I changed my mind I had new vehicle criteria that I looked for lmao. Shopping for cars makes me miserable!
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    Great comparo and writeup, and I have to put my vote in for the E46 M3 here given the goals. Better car to learn on, can be cheaper in many respects (though many don't know about the hidden costs of e46 maintenance...valve adjustments, etc), easier to get weight out of, etc. Furthermore, finding a car that is already half or most of the way there and done right (at a significant discount) is much easier. That said, IMHO, the e36 M3 is still one of the best all around track cars out there. Get a clean e36 m3 with a blown engine or a shell, drop in a LSX+mods, do suspension, brakes, tires, rollbar, seats, and you will have one of the most entertaining, reliable, balanced, and friggin fast track cars out there.
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    My vote goes to an NA S54 powered e36 for a great track car.

  24. #49
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    If you are honestly looking for something that can drag, track and be streetable; immediately forget the S54. It is inherently too slow, the supercharged ones are a waste of money and the turbo ones aren't worth the money. The n54 is great but I would not use it on a road course... too much can go wrong and the engine inherently has cooling problems. Even though it looks more expensive; the S65 appears to be the proper option for you. You really don't need a 15K supercharger to make the car run well...

    Or buy an EVO9 and resolve all the issues at once.
    This was the best response.

  25. #50
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by folgrz Click here to enlarge
    Mr. @Irishace , what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this thread is now dumber for having to read it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

    LOL J/K!!

    Awesome post man. Super informative especially since I'm in the same boat as you right now. For example, I sold my previous 350z. Have been in love with the E46 M3 since I was 11 years old, dead set on buying one after I sold my z. Sold the Z. One of my friends convinced me e92 was the way to go. Drove one and liked it very much. Dead set on buying that now. My opinion changes once again and I become dead set on purchasing a E90 M3 instead of the coupe. Now, I'm back to buying an boosted E46 M3. Being so indecisive has caused me loads of stress over the past 7 months, but this post definitely puts me at ease!

    Mind you, I was searching for each of these cars religiously. So every time I changed my mind I had new vehicle criteria that I looked for lmao. Shopping for cars makes me miserable!
    Haha lol, I am in a similar position. I have been pining for my 135 ever since I sold it but I really love the e46 M3, its such a classic. Lots of time to decided and I am having fun learning , expoloring and getting great advice from the various communities.
    2015 F82 M4 - DCT - YMB
    2008 E90 335xi - AT - TSM

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