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  1. #26
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    I'd still believe the N54 can support power that is well beyond reasonable for day to day street use...
    I do not disagree. I disagree with the assertion that the N54 is a German 2JZGTE when it's nowhere near it in basically anything and the S54 is actually the better comparison to it.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    they've been seen to make 675-700+whp with cast iron sleeves, the highest ever seen out of one is something like 1000whp (i'm having trouble confirming though)
    What is an LSX block made out of? Why doesn't GM does sleeve their regular LS motors?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I do not disagree. I disagree with the assertion that the N54 is a German 2JZGTE when it's nowhere near it in basically anything and the S54 is actually the better comparison to it.
    the only thing (imo) that's comparable.. is it's a 3.0 straight 6 turbo that can see decent (400-450whp) power fairly easily.... aand the prices of the cars it came in (therefore affordability down the track) are similar

    i think that's where the comparisons are coming from

    at least that's how i see the N54, it may not be exactly the same as the 2jz in 90% of meaningful ways, but it's as close a replacement as you're going to get after 15 years.. sadly.. like the new GT-86. the FA20 doesn't compare to the 4AGE AE86 in any way (even less than the 2jz vs N54 hah)Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What is an LSX block made out of? Why doesn't GM does sleeve their regular LS motors?
    because it's stronger, of course, a full cast iron block will be stronger

    if the N54 was cast iron, that's one thing we'd never have to think about, yes

    the N54 won't set world records for overall classes, it's going to be some amount more fragile.. but that doesn't mean it will break apart as soon as people start shooting for some really 'fun' power levels.. just the grenade point is disappointingly lower more than likely lol

    plus, as more and more 2jz's break, there needs to be other decent, popular, available motors... well except for the crazies that would get a full block re-cast for use >_>

    as much as i love seeing dyno queens and 1/4 destroyers, that's not all it has to be about.

  5. #30
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    the only thing (imo) that's comparable.. is it's a 3.0 straight 6 turbo that can see decent (400-450whp) power fairly easily....
    EXACTLY. That's it, it's a similar layout and turbo'd with monumental differences beyond this. As I wrote earlier, using this as a basis for it being a German 2JZGTE is idiotic.

  6. #31
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    EXACTLY. That's it, it's a similar layout and turbo'd with monumental differences beyond this. As I wrote earlier, using this as a basis for it being a German 2JZGTE is idiotic.
    like i said, it's as close as we're going to get to a modern reincarnation of it, whether or not it's truly an accurate comparison

    i think the N54 is the German N54 personally.. 2jz owners can have fun with their 2jz, and plenty of it.

    how about someone make a 'modern RB26'? Click here to enlarge

  7. #32
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    Sticky is raging about how a N54 isn't a 2jz.

    no kidding? You could have just said at the start that they are made by different people, with different materials and your argument is correct.People are excited that they will be making more then 450whp, let them be, compare it to 2jz's, rub there faces on it, etc etc. who cares.




  8. #33
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    like i said, it's as close as we're going to get to a modern reincarnation of it
    And like I said, the S54 is closer to that.

  9. #34
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    People are excited that they will be making more then 450whp, let them be, compare it to 2jz's, rub there faces on it, etc etc. who cares.
    I'm not discounting that.

    What I am saying is every time a turbo kit is announced some random goes "OMG N54 is a Supra."

    No it isn't, shut up.

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    Mmmm, S54...

    Only reason I choose N54 was because it was practically the same price at the time and it would cost a lot more to get the S54 to N54 power figures Click here to enlarge
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  11. #36
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    Mmmm, S54...

    Only reason I choose N54 was because it was practically the same price at the time and it would cost a lot more to get the S54 to N54 power figures Click here to enlarge
    It's not an S54 versus N54 debate but if you really truly look at it the S54 is closer to the 2JZGTE (and better in ways) than the N54 is.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    It's not an S54 versus N54 debate but if you really truly look at it the S54 is closer to the 2JZGTE (and better in ways) than the N54 is.
    Yeah, the iron block being the most obvious. The S54 can take ungodly amounts of abuse.
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  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    And like I said, the S54 is closer to that.
    S54 closer to 2jz, or S54 closer to N54?

    ED: derp, kept reading, S54 closer to 2jz

    yeah .. port injection, closed (?) cast iron block

    ED: you don't really see 1500hp S54's though do you?

    i'll always see the S54 as an NA screamer though.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    What is an LSX block made out of? Why doesn't GM does sleeve their regular LS motors?
    Most LSx engines are aluminum blocks with iron sleeves. Some engines are iron block but those engines were put mostly in trucks. The iron blocks are more desirable for boost, though.
    Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Flinchy Click here to enlarge
    ED: you don't really see 1500hp S54's though do you?
    I think the S54 is at around 1200 for now? Only HPF is pushing it so we'll see where it goes.

  16. #41
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Most LSx engines are aluminum blocks with iron sleeves. Some engines are iron block but those engines were put mostly in trucks. The iron blocks are more desirable for boost, though.
    I specifically am referring to the LSX aftermarket block, you misunderstood.

  17. #42
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I specifically am referring to the LSX aftermarket block, you misunderstood.
    Gotcha. It can get a little confusing when talking LSx and LSX. I wish they still called the GMPP blocks "bowtie blocks"
    Click here to enlarge
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  18. #43
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    It can get a little confusing when talking LSx and LSX.
    Agreed which is why I'm pointing out that GM chooses rather than sleeving aluminum to build their racing block out of iron. And apparently those in the GM world say the LSX is indestructible...

  19. #44
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    I think the S54 is at around 1200 for now? Only HPF is pushing it so we'll see where it goes.
    well. fair enough, impressive enough haha

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Not long enough to overwrite the weakness of aluminum versus iron. Sorry.

    The N54 block clearly looks like a budget block. I've never seen such a weak BMW bock from the factory personally. The M50/M52 is superior and that was made when?
    I can't agree with that. It's pretty well known 600whp is the limit of a stock s/m5x motor, and that's with head studs and a head spacer. And those motors dont last long at all. We've already passed that with an unopened motor. That's fact.

  21. #46
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BoostAddict Click here to enlarge
    I can't agree with that. It's pretty well known 600whp is the limit of a stock s/m5x motor, and that's with head studs and a head spacer. And those motors dont last long at all. We've already passed that with an unopened motor. That's fact.
    Hah, what? A stock S54 puts out ~7XX whp on 11.5:1 compression, you kidding me?

    The reason for a head spacer is to drop compression. With the compression dropped, the M5X/S5X series goes way, way beyond.

    It honestly isn't even a comparison. Didn't ICS hit close to 1200 whp recently with an M52? What are you talking about not lasting long?

    And if you are building for over 1000 whp all of these motors need to be opened the difference being the iron blocks with more material to work with are going to be stronger. The N54 is basically at half of what they are, slow your roll.

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    i see 4 key differences;

    open vs closed deck
    PI vs DI
    ECU's
    Iron vs Aluminum block

    That is enough to make sure the n54 never touches the 2jz...

    2 of those can be somehwat fixed but it will be difficult... if i had unlimited resources and time...

    Motec or Aem standalone ecu along with secondary port fueling system fully controlled by standalone mixed w factory ecu for DI and everything else needed to make the car run. Then I would build the motor with a slightly different compression ratio... Until both of those are done... good luck to those trying because it will be very hard.
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    That is enough to make sure the n54 never touches the 2jz...

    2 of those can be somehwat fixed but it will be difficult... if i had unlimited resources and time...
    Exactly and all people are saying is how to mask the deficiencies while ignoring the advantages the other motors have.

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Are you saying DI is a downside? Heh.
    Open Vs Closed Deck: Addressable... Posting, Block guards, Custom 'Webbing'.
    PI vs DI: DI is an advantage. MazdaSpeed fellows have run with an external fuel controller and 4 extra injectors to provide additional fueling as needed. (They also upgraded their HPFP systems.)
    ECU's: ProEFI is 'in the works' AEM/MOTEC/etc will come with time. Standalone secondary batched injectors are possible as stated above.
    Aluminium vs Iron Block: Well we can't really change this Click here to enlarge Anyone feel like getting into a little alchemy?

    Time will tell what the N54 can make. Just make sure you're not selling it as a lost cause.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    i see 4 key differences;

    open vs closed deck
    PI vs DI
    ECU's
    Iron vs Aluminum block

    That is enough to make sure the n54 never touches the 2jz...

    2 of those can be somehwat fixed but it will be difficult... if i had unlimited resources and time...

    Motec or Aem standalone ecu along with secondary port fueling system fully controlled by standalone mixed w factory ecu for DI and everything else needed to make the car run. Then I would build the motor with a slightly different compression ratio... Until both of those are done... good luck to those trying because it will be very hard.
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  25. #50
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    well sure DI is an advantage if you have a true fuel pump upgrade a la VW/speed3 both of which are near identical hence why a common solution was developed... how do I know... wanna see a picture of my speed3 from back in the day lol??? trust me until cobb cracked and opened the fueling tables fully... it was turd crap, then when the fuel pump upgrades were made it went to another level...

    building the motor, standalones??? sure, how much budget do u have??
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

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