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  1. #26
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    I was thinking first that this could just lead into fight if you'd test and compare their exact set-up to the other alternatives, but if this is for the benefit of FFTEC customers to get to know the limits of their product, I believe FFTEC would be interested in helping you out with the info if you let them know you are about to test their system.

    Personally, I'd be interested in knowing how much 2 x e85 Walbros would flow in series. It would be easy upgrade on FFTEC kit to replace the stock pump by another Walbro pump and get even more flow. I believe you could assemble them in the way you feel is the best, if the FFTEC installation remains unknown.

    Are you able to simulate the HPFP restriction and the high resistance of the system accurately? The high resistance needs to be the same as it is in the actual N54 fuel system for the results to be relevant.

    Looking forward to the results! I'm sure they will be nice to learn.

  2. #27
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    I know this might be a little Farfetched but why not contact fftec and come to them with the intentions of trying to advance the market with a differant/simmilar style set up. I know they have a lot of R&D but atleast in my business (healthcare very differant but still same basic principals) I grow off and befriend my compeditors. It ends up helping eachother, building a stronger business, and instead of drama both companys benefit $$$ wise

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ferruccio Click here to enlarge
    However this turns out, I am eager to see the results. I am, mostly, leaning towards using the straight E85 pump replacement, since I have not been able to find enough information about the Vishnu solution. Plus, it's a nice DIY and I have all the tools needed.

    Even if the pump replacement isn't flowing as much as the in-line booster method, I probably won't be running nearly enough horsepower to justify needing substantially more than a straight in-tank Walbro can handle. I'll probably be focusing on strengthening some transfer case parts long before maxing out a single Walbro E85 pump Click here to enlarge
    That is the real question. To what end for most of this stuff. My testing has been capped around 520whp and below but have found the single Walbro to take anything we can throw at it at those power levels. Maybe we'll find running two Walbro's in series is a good option for those higher HP levels down the road. Who knows. Until you test you have only speculation and while I know the Walbro alone works well bench testing is a fun way to spend rainy days. Click here to enlarge
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  4. #29
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Are you able to simulate the HPFP restriction and the high resistance of the system accurately? The high resistance needs to be the same as it is in the actual N54 fuel system for the results to be relevant.
    I've been thinking of adding an restrictor equal to the HPFP inlet at the end of the line to better simulate it but I don't know if the HPFP also creates vacuum on the low pressure side as part of its operation, etc. So like most testing it's not going to be 100% ideal but will at least be relative.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  5. #30
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    has anyone really tested an RB + E85 setup? would this help greatly? Can we make 550 whp this way?
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  6. #31
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    Terry has. He found once the 400lph e85 wally was installed that the HFPF was the next limiting factor.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    has anyone really tested an RB + E85 setup? would this help greatly? Can we make 550 whp this way?
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    Looking forward to the results. I was not sure which way to go as for a booster or a lpfp change out or both.eagerly waiting Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    That is the real question. To what end for most of this stuff. My testing has been capped around 520whp and below but have found the single Walbro to take anything we can throw at it at those power levels. Maybe we'll find running two Walbro's in series is a good option for those higher HP levels down the road. Who knows. Until you test you have only speculation and while I know the Walbro alone works well bench testing is a fun way to spend rainy days. Click here to enlarge
    Was the 520whp with 100% e85 + cm14 nozzle 100% meth or something else?

  9. #34
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    My thought, but I’m not knowledgeable in fluids…

    I don’t think the size of the stock restriction really matters. The fuel flow through the HPFP is what creates the backpressure. Simply find various orifices that allows different HP volumes to flow at 72psi… some math should determine a testing range. The current draw will determine pump performance. I don’t think you can really measure max volume easily since the main criteria is holding pressure steady. Guess you could open the orifice and watch pressure.

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    I'm still waiting for HPFP solution.. What happened to this research?????
    For Sale:

    - NX Express complete wet kit with Plug & Play fuel adapter for BMW 335i

    - FBO parts here LINK


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    Fwiw I tried running 20 psi through RBs with a 45% ethanol mix and I leaned out terribly north of 6000 rpm. Once I added meth trims started pegging -34% negative. Methanol is an amazing fueling band-aid.

    Dunno what that translates to in terms of whp but this was on the stock fuel system.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Fwiw I tried running 20 psi through RBs with a 45% ethanol mix and I leaned out terribly north of 6000 rpm. Once I added meth trims started pegging -34% negative. Methanol is an amazing fueling band-aid.

    Dunno what that translates to in terms of whp but this was on the stock fuel system.
    How much meth to go from +34 to -34?

  13. #38
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    How much meth to go from +34 to -34?
    My trims didnt tap out on e85 only, it was just the lpfp taking a dive like everyone elses.

  14. #39
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Q4P Click here to enlarge
    has anyone really tested an RB + E85 setup? would this help greatly? Can we make 550 whp this way?
    Without meth even with 72psi low fuel pressure high fuel pressure still drops at around ~500rw on E60. You can extend that a bit by running much leaner air/fuel targets. But without meth I don't see the system supporting much more than 540rw. Now if we redo the regulator and push say 80psi, maybe that can be extended. Or if we port out the HPFP.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    My trims didnt tap out on e85 only, it was just the lpfp taking a dive like everyone elses.
    Got it. I brain farted.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Without meth even with 72psi low fuel pressure high fuel pressure still drops at around ~500rw on E60. You can extend that a bit by running much leaner air/fuel targets. But without meth I don't see the system supporting much more than 540rw. Now if we redo the regulator and push say 80psi, maybe that can be extended. Or if we port out the HPFP.
    In my experience running the car too lean makes the car pretty sluggish.

  17. #42
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    Exciting! What are the means for measuring flow before and after each individual pump during the test; especially whilst testing the inline system?

    Looking forward to the numbers for flow and volume, as well as the extensive math supporting the findings!

    Good stuff.

  18. #43
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    Posed this question in the thread when they were discussing the Vishu kit and got no responses. If people think the stock pump is a restriction, and the kit costs $600 anyways, why not just run 2 Walbros in series. As I said before I have built a few fuel systems but am in no way an expert, but this seems like a good alternative and is still $200 less than their set up. I actually think I am going to do just that on the stage 3 car. Clutch is on the way, will get into the fuel pump next week.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Posed this question in the thread when they were discussing the Vishu kit and got no responses. If people think the stock pump is a restriction, and the kit costs $600 anyways, why not just run 2 Walbros in series. As I said before I have built a few fuel systems but am in no way an expert, but this seems like a good alternative and is still $200 less than their set up. I actually think I am going to do just that on the stage 3 car. Clutch is on the way, will get into the fuel pump next week.
    Totally an option. Terry ways dropping high pressure before low pressure though so we really don't know what the limit of the low pressure system is. Likely anyone going deep with stage 3 is going to need a good amount of meth to cover octane. I don't think fueling will be an issue on the LP side with one Walbro for a while.

  20. #45
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Posed this question in the thread when they were discussing the Vishu kit and got no responses. If people think the stock pump is a restriction, and the kit costs $600 anyways, why not just run 2 Walbros in series. As I said before I have built a few fuel systems but am in no way an expert, but this seems like a good alternative and is still $200 less than their set up. I actually think I am going to do just that on the stage 3 car. Clutch is on the way, will get into the fuel pump next week.
    to me ^^^^^ that seems the most logical thing to do with higher power... why keep the stock pump?
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by VargasTurboTech Click here to enlarge
    Posed this question in the thread when they were discussing the Vishu kit and got no responses. If people think the stock pump is a restriction, and the kit costs $600 anyways, why not just run 2 Walbros in series. As I said before I have built a few fuel systems but am in no way an expert, but this seems like a good alternative and is still $200 less than their set up. I actually think I am going to do just that on the stage 3 car. Clutch is on the way, will get into the fuel pump next week.
    This is even better than a rig. Put one Walbro there first to see if that is enough. Then install another one in series if one Walbro was not good enough.

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Most of the parts came in today so I threw the rig together in a faux "fuel tank". Here is a short video of the OEM pump humming away. For test fuel I'm using normal 91 octane pump fuel.




    *** Edit did some addl testing and looks like the factory regulator is not holding pressure in this configuration. Changes to come!
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 01-17-2013 at 01:37 AM.
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  23. #48
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    Very nice. Looking forward to the results!
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    Nice, excited to see how the other solutions stack up.

  25. #50
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    Terry, is that free flow? New or old pump? And haha, figured it was around 255lph...

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