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  1. #1
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    Rigging up a fuel pump test bench

    Hey guys,

    I'm rigging up a fuel pump test bench using an factory regulator, fuel pump, lines, etc, so we can get more insight in to how the various fuel pump upgrade solutions work. Part of this testing will be to determine just how much fuel volume is lost running both venturi valves and the regulator. I've speculated it at 15% but it will be nice to know the real number. For those that don't know the venturi valves move fuel from the driver side tank to the passenger side tank and from the passenger side tank in to the bucket. The regulator keeps the fuel pressure at around 72psi.

    One setup we'll test is the FFTEC style factory pump + Walbro E85 pump inline. But looking at the photo of the FFTEC inline setup I'm not quite sure how it is supposed to install. I thought I read it installs inside the driver side tank but everything before the regulator on the driver side is plastic crimped. Looking at their fittings the only other location before the regulator would be in the passenger side tank next to the factory pump. Can anyone running it verify?
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    I was going to build an Excel spreadsheet with the known pump flows and the OE stuff this week to get a sense of the system curve and the flow one could expect using different configurations. I am not sure I have everything I need, but it will be interesting to see how far your real world results mimic my calculations.

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    I'm personally curious how the Walbro in tank does vs. a factory pump with an inexpensive ($99) Walbro 255lph booster pump vs. the factory pump with the Walbro inline.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    this is great stuff T
    JB4LIFE

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    Do you still have that BAP handy? I'd love to see that wired in on top of the E85 walbro pump once its in there
    Click here to enlarge

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    Yeah it's around here somewhere, but I have a full power supply that can run from 0-24v. Click here to enlarge
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    I just had a long talk with someone over at e90 worrying about the amount of work it would take getting a custom set-up made external to the car. If Sassy is on this forum, this is me eating crow on that point! I'm eager to see the results of this test.

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    I would not call this a NASA certified testing rig, but it will be good enough for our purposes. Click here to enlarge

    The difference between the DIY pump setup we have tested and the inline setup FFTEC sells is only whether or not you keep or remove the factory pump. One thing I'd like to explore is if you do decide to keep the factory pump in place 1) does it reduce volume potential and 2) is there a way to do it without that adapter FFTEC sells that costs more than the pump itself.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    I love real-world tech/application threads.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ferruccio Click here to enlarge
    I just had a long talk with someone over at e90 worrying about the amount of work it would take getting a custom set-up made external to the car. If Sassy is on this forum, this is me eating crow on that point! I'm eager to see the results of this test.
    I read that.

    Heres the thing: For $600 and the amount of testing Shiv claims, that test rig should have already been made. Without it his claim of out performing anything else is complete garbage. He hasn't posted the data because he hasn't tested it. Instead he has made up BS numbers, then modified his post when he saw me correct him. I am glad Terry is actually going through the effort to do some testing.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I would not call this a NASA certified testing rig, but it will be good enough for our purposes. Click here to enlarge

    The difference between the DIY pump setup we have tested and the inline setup FFTEC sells is only whether or not you keep or remove the factory pump. One thing I'd like to explore is if you do decide to keep the factory pump in place 1) does it reduce volume potential and 2) is there a way to do it without that adapter FFTEC sells that costs more than the pump itself.

    I just can't see the factory pump contributing anything to the flow potential. If anything, it is a restriction. Regardless, keeping the old components in there and slapping parts onto it is just ghetto. Double the current draw, double the parts, triple the cost = poor engineering. I would get fired if I took this kind of approach.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    I just can't see the factory pump contributing anything to the flow potential. If anything, it is a restriction. Regardless, keeping the old components in there and slapping parts onto it is just ghetto. Double the current draw, double the parts, triple the cost = poor engineering. I would get fired if I took this kind of approach.
    I know what you mean.... The current draw may be a concern. I'll measure it with both pumps to see what we're looking at.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I know what you mean.... The current draw may be a concern. I'll measure it with both pumps to see what we're looking at.
    To be fair, while the stock pump is being sucked through, it probably doesn't draw much current. lol... maybe it makes power... Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Ferruccio Click here to enlarge
    I just had a long talk with someone over at e90 worrying about the amount of work it would take getting a custom set-up made external to the car. If Sassy is on this forum, this is me eating crow on that point! I'm eager to see the results of this test.
    Dont even bother in those threads man.

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    this should be interesting...

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    Have another Walbro pump in the mail along with a few fittings I need to finish up the rig. Will update this thread with results as I get them. Click here to enlarge

    Still need some feedback from FFTEC kit users as to where the pump is installed and located exactly. Does it just flop around in the passenger side tank next to the bucket?
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Have another Walbro pump in the mail along with a few fittings I need to finish up the rig. Will update this thread with results as I get them. Click here to enlarge

    Still need some feedback from FFTEC kit users as to where the pump is installed and located exactly. Does it just flop around in the passenger side tank next to the bucket?
    lmao at "Flop around" - this is gonna be awesome to actually get results first hand the proper way.

    Just another reason why Terry is so well respected vs others
    09 6AT 335i Coupe M-Sport - SOLD
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Still need some feedback from FFTEC kit users as to where the pump is installed and located exactly. Does it just flop around in the passenger side tank next to the bucket?
    You may be hard pressed finding this info since all installs were done by FFTEC I think....and I'm not sure many owners of the vishnu pump would pull out their back seat to tell you. I hope someone does though.

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    Why does it matter how Shiv/FFTEC guys did it? My honest advice is just get it done yourself, make a fuel kit the way you think it should be and provide data back compared to OEM. Unless you think their design might be good and you're trying to learn from it...
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Why does it matter how Shiv/FFTEC guys did it? My honest advice is just get it done yourself, make a fuel kit the way you think it should be and provide data back compared to OEM. Unless you think their design might be good and you're trying to learn from it...
    I can assume how they have installed their setup but would prefer to know for sure to keep the test results relevant to those running that setup.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I can assume how they have installed their setup but would prefer to know for sure to keep the test results relevant to those running that setup.
    Wait, so you're doing this for the benefit of the users already running Shiv's kit so you can provide them with results Shiv didn't? Click here to enlarge I say let him and his customers deal with that and let's see something new. Pretend Shiv's stuff doesn't exist. We already know the better pumps, we know lines are kinda small, why not concentrate on that vs. OEM instead of bothering with rigging up their kit first?
    Click here to enlarge

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    Sooner or later the question will come "how does this compare to FFTEC's kit?", so I see it as a critical part of this bench testing.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Sooner or later the question will come "how does this compare to FFTEC's kit?", so I see it as a critical part of this bench testing.
    I'm sure it will. However, rigging up something close to his kit (won't be the same unless you buy it from them or a customer of his hands it over your way) at this point in time and spending time testing can only serve to you and the community to not think out of the box and critique Click here to enlarge Designing it from scratch with well known hardware and addressing limitations that are pretty clear and we know about today, now that I'd like to see! Subsequent fuel system shootouts can and should follow after you've got your own design done and I'd love to see both head to head
    Click here to enlarge

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    You can rig up a test bench and test away as you'd like. It's fairly easy. For our testing we'll be testing their solution, the Walbro alone, and some other possible solutions.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

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    However this turns out, I am eager to see the results. I am, mostly, leaning towards using the straight E85 pump replacement, since I have not been able to find enough information about the Vishnu solution. Plus, it's a nice DIY and I have all the tools needed.

    Even if the pump replacement isn't flowing as much as the in-line booster method, I probably won't be running nearly enough horsepower to justify needing substantially more than a straight in-tank Walbro can handle. I'll probably be focusing on strengthening some transfer case parts long before maxing out a single Walbro E85 pump Click here to enlarge

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