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  1. #101
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    I have a customer who is doing a Spec Stage 1/Steel SMFW combo in an XI....should be together early next week, I will report back on my results.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJrep335i Click here to enlarge
    Any updates on the Chatter noise? I am trying to decide on a new DMFW or a Spec Steel SMFW but don't want the rattling bolts in a can sound.
    I am still in break in. That being said 95% of the time its completely quite. 5% I can hear it, but then it goes away after another 5 minutes of driving. After fully broken in I am confident I wont ever hear it. I am going to break the jitters out of this clutch pretty soon. I am at 300 miles, but it clearly needs a little motivation to get a totally smooth engagement.

  3. #103
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    Great news..we've received very similar feedback from other customers as well on it..sounds more and more like a great option
    Click here to enlarge

  4. #104
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    I think I need a new clutch. Mine ist slipping in 4th and 5th gear.
    Didn't take very long Click here to enlarge

    Do you guys think that a Steel SMFW and the Spec Stage3+ is the right choise for my xDrive?

    I would prefer the Sachs Performane because its a lot cheaper and local to me. But I don't want to change my clutch everytime I do some Maintenance.


    The Guy from Sachs says that with 600NM I have nothing to worry about. (Their webpage says 540NM for the organic Disc + min. 10% Safety margin).

    edit:
    If Spec, would it be the SAC oder non-SAC Kit?
    are there any advantages or disadvantages
    Last edited by lorddrinkalot; 01-14-2013 at 06:43 PM.
    BMW 335i xDrive MT
    COBB Stage2+|Wagner FMIC|CPe-Downpipes|BMW Performance Exhaust

  5. #105
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lorddrinkalot Click here to enlarge
    I think I need a new clutch. Mine ist slipping in 4th and 5th gear.
    Didn't take very long Click here to enlarge

    Do you guys think that a Steel SMFW and the Spec Stage3+ is the right choise for my xDrive?

    I would prefer the Sachs Performane because its a lot cheaper and local to me. But I don't want to change my clutch everytime I do some Maintenance.


    The Guy from Sachs says that with 600NM I have nothing to worry about. (Their webpage says 540NM for the organic Disc + min. 10% Safety margin).

    edit:
    If Spec, would it be the SAC oder non-SAC Kit?
    are there any advantages or disadvantages
    The only review I've heard on the Sachs clutch when it comes to the N54 is from @cstavaru . Sounds like a good option according to him. I personally have driven/owned on a puck style clutch, ClutchMasters FX400 6 puck ceramic with their 16lb two piece aluminum flywheel, and hated it. The one @cstavaru installed is a 4 puck so engagement should naturally even rougher but its a different kit so its hard to compare obviously. I've also driven a couple other puck clutches and would never recommend them to customers that daily their cars and see stop/go traffic. Especially if you go with a ceramic puck, just not built to withstand constant heat cycling through slip. Been there, done that, not going back to a puck style clutch on this car or a single mass lightweight aluminum flywheel, but that's me...

    Now in terms of SPEC its been getting great reviews both online and locally. This new steel flywheel is sweetening the deal in terms of chatter reduction. I've personally also driven a 2+ and heard a 3+ on a local car and these were with the aluminum single mass flywheel and they didn't sound that terrible at idle. With INPA idle can be raised slightly (which wasn't available at the time I ran my CM kit) so even that becomes a moderate to a non-issue. @jpsimon 's clutch is a stage 3 which is also a puck style clutch and it'll chatter and give off more noise just due to the nature of the setup vs. a full face disk one. Main reason we decided to carry this clutch and recommend it out there (and keep in mind we can carry any other clutch as well) is because its been reported to work well both online and locally and have had experience with other brands out there as well so at this point its sort of special. I am still to get some SOLID seat time with the CM FX850 twin disk but the one I drove just seemed off and not sure what/why...

    If you decide on the spec setup drop me a pm and we'll hook you up with a killer deal shipped across the pond Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 01-14-2013 at 08:37 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #106
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    Also keep in mind South Bend Clutch will make ANY of their stage options with a full face disk for a small charge. My stage 4 with a full face disc for the stage 3 car shipped today. We are dealers for them and can get you guys a pretty good deal. I would never drive a puck on the street, it is the most frustrating and annoying experience. I am also pretty sure South Bend is supplying at least some of the options out there with their discs and pressure plates and they are rebranding.

  7. #107
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    Thank you for the reply.

    I will shoot you a PM.
    BMW 335i xDrive MT
    COBB Stage2+|Wagner FMIC|CPe-Downpipes|BMW Performance Exhaust

  8. #108
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by lorddrinkalot Click here to enlarge
    I think I need a new clutch. Mine ist slipping in 4th and 5th gear.
    Didn't take very long Click here to enlarge

    Do you guys think that a Steel SMFW and the Spec Stage3+ is the right choise for my xDrive?

    I would prefer the Sachs Performane because its a lot cheaper and local to me. But I don't want to change my clutch everytime I do some Maintenance.


    The Guy from Sachs says that with 600NM I have nothing to worry about. (Their webpage says 540NM for the organic Disc + min. 10% Safety margin).

    edit:
    If Spec, would it be the SAC oder non-SAC Kit?
    are there any advantages or disadvantages
    On an XI the last thing I would do is skimp on a clutch (although it will move the weak link elsewhere). The Spec 3+ is rated to 671ftlbs = 909NM. The two clutches aren't in the same league. I'd go Spec 3+, but obviously I am biased. I have never driven a Sachs clutch knowingly.

  9. #109
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    I've driven Sachs once. On a 1.8T Strocker Engine build (2.0 20V ~500hp/580NM)
    He had the SMFW from Sachs + organic dampered Disc. Was pretty awesome to drive.

    Hehe had to look up "skimp".

    Well thats my point, but for the Price of the Spec3+ and SMFW I get 3 Sachs Clutchkits or 5 organic Discs.

    If the Spec Stage3+ is 3-times better than ACT, Clutchmaster and Sachs, then I have no Problem spending some money.
    BMW 335i xDrive MT
    COBB Stage2+|Wagner FMIC|CPe-Downpipes|BMW Performance Exhaust

  10. #110
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    Organic clutch definitely won't work for you, not enough holding capacity
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #111
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    Ok Thanks.
    Thats a statement I can work with.
    BMW 335i xDrive MT
    COBB Stage2+|Wagner FMIC|CPe-Downpipes|BMW Performance Exhaust

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    3 out of 3 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Replaced my clutch over the weekend with Spec non-SAC stg2+ w/ steel FW. Just started the break-in period and never broken in a new clutch before. First drive I thought I would leave the tranny on the street. Basically just trying not to stall it in 1st for now. Will report back after 500mi.

    Did the job in the garage alone with a little help from the wife. It was pretty tough, but more due to the car only being 18” off the ground and not having the best tools. Some pointers:
    - You can do everything from the bottom, but it is much easier to remove the intake manifold… which I did eventually. Basically 1 bolt is a real $#@!. You can only get the swivel on it from the passenger side of the tranny. If you had a long flex wrench this may work, but mine aren’t long enough to break the bolt loose… had to do it with extensions.
    - I used all 3/8tools… ” would be much better. 3/8 with 3ft of extensions flexes way too much and it’s a little scary.
    - I used the harbor freight tranny jack, but in order to get the tranny out from under the car on the jack you probably need to be about 25” off the ground. I had to remove the tranny from the jack in the tunnel and put it back on the jack in the tunnel for install… this part super sucked. You could keep it in the tunnel… just makes for much less space when working on the clutch/FW.
    - If you have to replace the FW pinion shaft, do it with a press and don’t mess with trying to drive it out. A local tranny shop let me use their press for no charge… very nice of them.

    Thanks to BrianMN, JamesM3M5, and GeorgiaTech for answering some questions I had beforehand.

  13. #113
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Replaced my clutch over the weekend with Spec non-SAC stg2+ w/ steel FW. Just started the break-in period and never broken in a new clutch before. First drive I thought I would leave the tranny on the street. Basically just trying not to stall it in 1st for now. Will report back after 500mi.

    Did the job in the garage alone with a little help from the wife. It was pretty tough, but more due to the car only being 18” off the ground and not having the best tools. Some pointers:
    - You can do everything from the bottom, but it is much easier to remove the intake manifold… which I did eventually. Basically 1 bolt is a real $#@!. You can only get the swivel on it from the passenger side of the tranny. If you had a long flex wrench this may work, but mine aren’t long enough to break the bolt loose… had to do it with extensions.
    - I used all 3/8tools… ” would be much better. 3/8 with 3ft of extensions flexes way too much and it’s a little scary.
    - I used the harbor freight tranny jack, but in order to get the tranny out from under the car on the jack you probably need to be about 25” off the ground. I had to remove the tranny from the jack in the tunnel and put it back on the jack in the tunnel for install… this part super sucked. You could keep it in the tunnel… just makes for much less space when working on the clutch/FW.
    - If you have to replace the FW pinion shaft, do it with a press and don’t mess with trying to drive it out. A local tranny shop let me use their press for no charge… very nice of them.

    Thanks to BrianMN, JamesM3M5, and GeorgiaTech for answering some questions I had beforehand.
    Awesome! Ballsy doing it without a lift. Click here to enlarge

  14. #114
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Replaced my clutch over the weekend with Spec non-SAC stg2+ w/ steel FW. Just started the break-in period and never broken in a new clutch before. First drive I thought I would leave the tranny on the street. Basically just trying not to stall it in 1st for now. Will report back after 500mi.

    Did the job in the garage alone with a little help from the wife. It was pretty tough, but more due to the car only being 18” off the ground and not having the best tools. Some pointers:
    - You can do everything from the bottom, but it is much easier to remove the intake manifold… which I did eventually. Basically 1 bolt is a real $#@!. You can only get the swivel on it from the passenger side of the tranny. If you had a long flex wrench this may work, but mine aren’t long enough to break the bolt loose… had to do it with extensions.
    - I used all 3/8tools… ” would be much better. 3/8 with 3ft of extensions flexes way too much and it’s a little scary.
    - I used the harbor freight tranny jack, but in order to get the tranny out from under the car on the jack you probably need to be about 25” off the ground. I had to remove the tranny from the jack in the tunnel and put it back on the jack in the tunnel for install… this part super sucked. You could keep it in the tunnel… just makes for much less space when working on the clutch/FW.
    - If you have to replace the FW pinion shaft, do it with a press and don’t mess with trying to drive it out. A local tranny shop let me use their press for no charge… very nice of them.

    Thanks to BrianMN, JamesM3M5, and GeorgiaTech for answering some questions I had beforehand.

    Great Job! Keep us informed on the Chatter you are hearing. This is the exact setup I am looking into getting. I may just pull the trigger this week. Thanks for the information on installing at home as well.

  15. #115
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    Replaced my clutch over the weekend with Spec non-SAC stg2+ w/ steel FW. Just started the break-in period and never broken in a new clutch before. First drive I thought I would leave the tranny on the street. Basically just trying not to stall it in 1st for now. Will report back after 500mi.

    Did the job in the garage alone with a little help from the wife. It was pretty tough, but more due to the car only being 18” off the ground and not having the best tools. Some pointers:
    - You can do everything from the bottom, but it is much easier to remove the intake manifold… which I did eventually. Basically 1 bolt is a real $#@!. You can only get the swivel on it from the passenger side of the tranny. If you had a long flex wrench this may work, but mine aren’t long enough to break the bolt loose… had to do it with extensions.
    - I used all 3/8tools… ” would be much better. 3/8 with 3ft of extensions flexes way too much and it’s a little scary.
    - I used the harbor freight tranny jack, but in order to get the tranny out from under the car on the jack you probably need to be about 25” off the ground. I had to remove the tranny from the jack in the tunnel and put it back on the jack in the tunnel for install… this part super sucked. You could keep it in the tunnel… just makes for much less space when working on the clutch/FW.
    - If you have to replace the FW pinion shaft, do it with a press and don’t mess with trying to drive it out. A local tranny shop let me use their press for no charge… very nice of them.

    Thanks to BrianMN, JamesM3M5, and GeorgiaTech for answering some questions I had beforehand.
    ok, this gets respect and a pos rep Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  16. #116
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Thanks guys. Did everything with the other car in the garage also. Heres some pics.

    My stock clutch actually slipped initially about 1.5yrs ago so I detuned to around 400ftlbs and held until recently where is starting slipping in 4th and then very soon after wouldn't hold > throttle. The clutch was done and the FW had no springy action left the FW has been like this for a long time. The improvement in shifting is very noticeable with the new FW less jerky, much smoother. But Ill probably struggle in 1st for a while.
    Attached Images Attached Images   

  17. #117
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    - If you have to replace the FW pinion shaft, do it with a press and don’t mess with trying to drive it out. A local tranny shop let me use their press for no charge… very nice of them.

    Is it necessary to replace this?

  18. #118
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TCW Click here to enlarge
    Is it necessary to replace this?
    with the spec non-SAC yes... the FW doesn't come with it.

  19. #119
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JoshBoody Click here to enlarge
    with the spec non-SAC yes... the FW doesn't come with it.
    I'm looking at clutches, can you give me the low-down on the non-SAC vs. SAC?

    Nevermind, I figured it out - self adjusting clutch mechanism...
    Last edited by DallasBoosted; 01-15-2013 at 03:57 PM.

  20. #120
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    SAC represents the Self Adjusting mechanism in a clutch assembly (pressure plate).

    It's a matter of the angle of the diaphram "fingers" change as the clutch wears.

    While the slave cylinder has enough surplus travel to deal with that the fingers start out nearly "Flat" early in the disc's wear cycle, and "tent" towards the transmission and that changes the geometry and increases pedal effort.

    The "adjustable" pressure plate is designed to reduce that effect.

    The non-adjustable clutch cover is what leads to the classic symptom of the clutch getting gradually harder to release just before it starts it's terminal slide (pun intended) towards replacement.
    Click here to enlarge

  21. #121
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    SAC represents the Self Adjusting mechanism in a clutch assembly (pressure plate).

    It's a matter of the angle of the diaphram "fingers" change as the clutch wears.

    While the slave cylinder has enough surplus travel to deal with that the fingers start out nearly "Flat" early in the disc's wear cycle, and "tent" towards the transmission and that changes the geometry and increases pedal effort.

    The "adjustable" pressure plate is designed to reduce that effect.

    The non-adjustable clutch cover is what leads to the classic symptom of the clutch getting gradually harder to release just before it starts it's terminal slide (pun intended) towards replacement.
    So if I'm planning on going with a spec stage 2 clutch with lightweight flywheel do I want the SAC or non-SAC? I don't drag race, just road race, which typically isn't that hard on clutches, so long as it can hold the torque the engine produces normally. I don't slip the clutch on the track at all.

  22. #122
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DallasBoosted Click here to enlarge
    So if I'm planning on going with a spec stage 2 clutch with lightweight flywheel do I want the SAC or non-SAC? I don't drag race, just road race, which typically isn't that hard on clutches, so long as it can hold the torque the engine produces normally. I don't slip the clutch on the track at all.
    Either really but if you'd like to stay with the way the OEM clutch self adjusts with wear then go with a SAC style one. It'll hold a bit less torque than the non-SAC though due to the way the pressure plate is constructed as far as i understand
    Click here to enlarge

  23. #123
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Either really but if you'd like to stay with the way the OEM clutch self adjusts with wear then go with a SAC style one. It'll hold a bit less torque than the non-SAC though due to the way the pressure plate is constructed as far as i understand
    How much less are we talking about?

  24. #124
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    About 50lb-ft less
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    About 50lb-ft less
    I guess I could always get the stage 2+ and stick with the SAC design. My concern is from previous cars where the clutch did not fully disengage (engaged so close to the floor that it was never fully disengaged) which ate my 1->2 synchro eventually. The SAC thing sounds pretty smart if it keeps the engagement point near the center of the pedal travel.

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