Close

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 175 of 272
  1. #151
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,073
    Rep Points
    9,057.8
    Mentioned
    637 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    91


    Yes Reputation No
    Sure there are 100s of options from various companies like Bosch, Walbro, and many others. The Walbro E85 was the first and only pump I've tested on the n54.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 12-27-2012 at 06:12 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Denver, CO
    Posts
    354
    Rep Points
    465.4
    Mentioned
    47 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    5


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    No idea why you wouldnt run an E85 Walbro in-tank. That is what we do, running pure E85...... save $400 LOL
    Click here to enlarge
    sales@ardesign.info | tel. 303.351.3515| www.ardesign.info
    Powering some of the world's fastest BMWs

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    This doesn't make any sense. How would the stock pump restrict the E85 pump in parallel? Please explain this to me. Having them in series makes them flow more for a given pressure. The pressure is not the issue, these pumps can hold 72psi. The issue is flow at that pressure. As you start demanding more FLOW it lowers the available PRESSURE. If you need more flow, two pumps in parallel are the solution. Since each pump can independently hit the pressure targets, it is not necessary to run them series. I have explained this already. A series pump setup is a patch and will work to get you a little more pressure on the top end of the flow if the pumps are similarly sized. It is pointless though to have a high volume pump suck a low volume pump. I cant believe I am even responding to this, just read the thread again.
    These pumps can hold the required pressure in theory when new. Parallel setups are at their best in low restriction applications with identical pumps. This is not the case here, for which reason pumps in series work better. I put my money where my mouth is. I'm going to install my e85 Walbro either in series, or use it in stand alone replacing the stock pump. I won't definitely install it in parallel configuration. So, are you going to install yours in parallel, since you believe in parallel working for N54?

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ar design Click here to enlarge
    No idea why you wouldnt run an E85 Walbro in-tank. That is what we do, running pure E85...... save $400 LOL
    This is the optimal solution for mediocre around 500 whp levels Click here to enlarge

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Before I bought the 267 Walbro pump I bought an inexpensive inline Walbro pump to try that as a booster setup. I never got around to following up on it as the in tank turned out to work so well. But this is another option. This particular pump is $99 and you'll notice it has barbed fittings so no CNC machined parts are required. You'd shove it in the orange line leading to the regulator. Inline pumps will increase pressure but won't increase overall flow much. Since the issue seems to be one of pressure at the HPFP (pushing through it's tiny opening) then an inline approach may very well work OK here.

    Speaking of which, the regulator looks really shoddy. I'll do some bench testing with it when I get over this cold. I wonder if switching it out for a higher quality regulator and running a little more pressure, like 80psi, would do us some good on getting around the HPFP limitation?
    This would be the cheapest way to get the fueling solved for the stock frame turbo cars.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,177
    Rep Points
    801.6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    These pumps can hold the required pressure in theory when new. Parallel setups are at their best in low restriction applications with identical pumps. This is not the case here, for which reason pumps in series work better. I put my money where my mouth is. I'm going to install my e85 Walbro either in series, or use it in stand alone replacing the stock pump. I won't definitely install it in parallel configuration. So, are you going to install yours in parallel, since you believe in parallel working for N54?
    1. I won't need an upgraded fuel pump for a while, so I have no need to run in series or parallel. 2. I wouldn't run two pumps, I'd run only the E85 pump. 3. Say what you want about series/parallel and old vs. new pumps, but you don't know what you're talking about quite clearly. I got nothing to prove here. I said my bit, showed the graphs and substantiated it. Talk is cheap, if you don't believe me provide some data substantiating your claim and run the tests yourself.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    1. I won't need an upgraded fuel pump for a while, so I have no need to run in series or parallel. 2. I wouldn't run two pumps, I'd run only the E85 pump. 3. Say what you want about series/parallel and old vs. new pumps, but you don't know what you're talking about quite clearly. I got nothing to prove here. I said my bit, showed the graphs and substantiated it. Talk is cheap, if you don't believe me provide some data substantiating your claim and run the tests yourself.
    Let me know when anyone actually believes you enough to have the parallel setup in N54. I don't know anyone. I will admit I was wrong when the market share of parallel setups is above the market share of serial setups in N54 market. Like never.

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    N.C. U.S.A
    Posts
    279
    Rep Points
    750.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    This is the optimal solution for mediocre around 500 whp levels Click here to enlarge
    Are you a jerk all the time or only when you are awake?
    Kevin
    2011 335is 7DCT/JB4 G5-ISO BMS Flash
    2013 135is 6MT - JB4 G5-ISO
    FF Cobra Mk-IV work in progress

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    13,485
    Rep Points
    58.0
    Mentioned
    318 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    i think 654 adds a noble amount of information in most area's. I dont know $#@! about the pump situation, BUT, from what ive seen here, there is more data shown for rudy's conclusions, and none other than words from 654..

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    N.C. U.S.A
    Posts
    279
    Rep Points
    750.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    2 out of 2 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Not commenting on his overall contributions just his attitude toward some on who went to the trouble of gathering facts to support his conclusions. If he has better information supporting his opinion maybe he should just post it.
    Kevin
    2011 335is 7DCT/JB4 G5-ISO BMS Flash
    2013 135is 6MT - JB4 G5-ISO
    FF Cobra Mk-IV work in progress

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    N.C. U.S.A
    Posts
    279
    Rep Points
    750.7
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    8


    Yes Reputation No
    Sorry missed the edit time doing spell check. Since I am at sub mediocre power levels & intend to stay there I have no interest in buying either solution. But from a basic interest & curiosity in the available solutions to the problem I don’t think I would want to put a $600 Rube Goldberg solution in my gas thank. The best single pump available from a main line manufacturer or specialty race shop would look to be in my mind the best answer to fueling the car.
    Kevin
    2011 335is 7DCT/JB4 G5-ISO BMS Flash
    2013 135is 6MT - JB4 G5-ISO
    FF Cobra Mk-IV work in progress

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory Click here to enlarge
    Are you a jerk all the time or only when you are awake?
    It was a joke and self irony since I fall into the mediocre range myself and might not need the high end fueling upgrades with two pumps.

  13. #163
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,641
    Rep Points
    2,166.9
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    22


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Let me know when anyone actually believes you enough to have the parallel setup in N54. I don't know anyone. I will admit I was wrong when the market share of parallel setups is above the market share of serial setups in N54 market. Like never.
    This is besides the point and just because Shivites in the N54 realm will do it that way doesn't mean it's the best way as has been proven many times.
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory Click here to enlarge
    Not commenting on his overall contributions just his attitude toward some on who went to the trouble of gathering facts to support his conclusions. If he has better information supporting his opinion maybe he should just post it.
    To have a constructive conversation you could point out my "opinions" that you feel are wrong. I'm willing to learn from my mistakes.

    The stuff that someone else has posted in the internet is a "fact", even though it was not about N54 platform and not related to the high pressure requirements? The internet fact copy pasted and posted was a partial truth. When the restriction is lowish, as in many cases in other platforms, the copy pasted stuff is correct. However, it does not prove it would be correct in our case. At very high resistance a parallel system does not even outperform a single pump. I could easily google and find someone else to say the same thing and quote him, but since I know it myself, I don't see the value of internet quotes.

    If parallel system is so good, how come Terry went with a single pump / removed the stock one? Honestly, I would not promote parallel system based on what I know about the pressure requirements of n54 and how the increased resistance affects parallel pumps.
    Last edited by 654; 12-28-2012 at 02:10 PM.

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Naples, FL
    Posts
    2,086
    Rep Points
    2,146.2
    Mentioned
    70 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    22


    Yes Reputation No
    How hard is it to install the E85 Walbro in-tank, any writeups on how to do it?

    Also is that the only needed item to run 100% e85? Do you still get a SES light from mixture codes?





  16. #166
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,073
    Rep Points
    9,057.8
    Mentioned
    637 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    91


    Yes Reputation No
    The devil is always in the details. In my opinion neither two pumps in parallel or in series are the best approach here. The best approach is one good pump. And removing the flow limitation leading in to the HPFP. Click here to enlarge

    Having not been following the argument to date nor reading anyone's posted links, I've always used in series (e.g. booster) pumps when I need to hit higher fuel pressures that the single pump alone can't hit, and the packaging made is difficult to replace the OEM pump. Normally was with an FMU system and 80-120psi fuel pressure. I've used in parallel pumps when each pump could support the proper fuel pressure but more overall volume was needed. In parallel is the "proper" way to utilize a dual pump setup. But again like I said it's a details business. Either approach would work here as the OEM pump can clearly support 72psi but then you get in to packaging restraints, etc. Shiv is using 3 pumps now so god knows how that is configured. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 12-28-2012 at 02:46 PM.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,073
    Rep Points
    9,057.8
    Mentioned
    637 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    91


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    How hard is it to install the E85 Walbro in-tank, any writeups on how to do it?

    Also is that the only needed item to run 100% e85? Do you still get a SES light from mixture codes?

    Super easy, just find my DIY on n54tech.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by nafoo Click here to enlarge
    This is besides the point and just because Shivites in the N54 realm will do it that way doesn't mean it's the best way as has been proven many times.
    Agree. On the other hand hoping that Shivites are wrong does not mean their approach is wrong.

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,925
    Rep Points
    1,372.6
    Mentioned
    13 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    14


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    The devil is always in the details. In my opinion neither two pumps in parallel or in series are the best approach here. The best approach is one good pump. And removing the flow limitation leading in to the HPFP. Click here to enlarge

    Having not been following the argument to date nor reading anyone's posted links, I've always used in series (e.g. booster) pumps when I need to hit higher fuel pressures that the single pump alone can't hit, and the packaging made is difficult to replace the OEM pump. Normally was with an FMU system and 80-120psi fuel pressure. I've used in parallel pumps when each pump could support the proper fuel pressure but more overall volume was needed. In parallel is the "proper" way to utilize a dual pump setup. But again like I said it's a details business. Either approach would work here as the OEM pump can clearly support 72psi but then you get in to packaging restraints, etc. Shiv is using 3 pumps now so god knows how that is configured. Click here to enlarge
    Shiv's offering is an overkill to most and the single pump should serve the majority well. However, at some power level the single Walbro is not enough. Big singles and GTX twins would benefit of additional flow. Do you have a plan already?

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Posts
    937
    Rep Points
    562.7
    Mentioned
    52 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    6


    Yes Reputation No
    I like 654's input... to the point, brief, and will point you in the right direction.

    On the pumps, there's a couple options:
    1. A single higher volume replacement... Time will determine if pressure is an issue.
    2. Pumps in series. Supports more volume then 1, and theoretically longer life.

    The design goals were different... an immediate, simple fix for e85 / 500HP. And a long term solution to support 700+HP. Both are solutions.

  21. #171
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Houston, Texas
    Posts
    1,641
    Rep Points
    2,166.9
    Mentioned
    72 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    22


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Agree. On the other hand hoping that Shivites are wrong does not mean their approach is wrong.
    I agree that the inline pump method isn't a wrong approach. From the general consensus here, it seems as though everyone thinks it's not necessary to run two pumps inline, unless you're pushing serious power, but at which point two pumps run in-parallel would be a "better" approach.
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

    2007 e92 Mont. Blue 335i | 6MT | COBB Tuned | Quaife 3.46 LSD | Helix FMIC | AA DPs | HKS Exhaust | DCI | Stett CP w/ Forged DVs | KWv2 Coilovers | UUC Sway Bars & SSK | HPF Stg 2 Clutch | HFS-4 | M3 Suspension Bits | DEFIVfab Diff Lockdown Kit | Stoptech Trophy BBK

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Simi Valley, CA
    Posts
    8,073
    Rep Points
    9,057.8
    Mentioned
    637 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    91


    Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Shiv's offering is an overkill to most and the single pump should serve the majority well. However, at some power level the single Walbro is not enough. Big singles and GTX twins would benefit of additional flow. Do you have a plan already?
    Personally I think the solution isn't more pressure but a physically modified HPFP. Maybe as easy as machining in a few fitting to accept a -6an or -8an line. Who knows maybe once we machine it a bit the OEM lines will do.
    Burger Motorsports
    Home of the Worlds fastest N20s, N54s, N55s, N63s, S55s, and S63s!

    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    6,683
    Rep Points
    3,335.6
    Mentioned
    225 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    34


    Yes Reputation No
    I don't think anyone was saying the approach is wrong. The approach is only wrong if it doesn't work and given what's been presented by Shiv there's no reason why his solution wouldn't provide more fuel while maintaining pressure. Some of the questions I have though is how much more fuel exactly (as in tested, not estimated) how reliable?

    However, as I've also mentioned before I'd like to see a few more people take a crack at it as there's just something about multiple pumps that I personally don't like the sound of. I know most platforms do dual and even triple pumps but I'd just like to see if something simpler (even if more costly) is available or possible to be done. I applaud all efforts in pushing this platform forward and sometimes we all jump too early to conclusions especially when we haven't had enough seat time with things that someone else may have on a particular platform. Jumping to early conclusions especially without their own testing and research, which all costs time and money, is one thing most of us need to start doing less of and start doing our own data gathering and research for presentment and discussion. However, that's not to say anyone should need to eat up everything they're served by any vendor out there..
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-28-2012 at 03:38 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  24. #174
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    1,177
    Rep Points
    801.6
    Mentioned
    14 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    9


    Yes Reputation No
    The series solution isn't wrong, I just don't think, based on the data, that it will outflow the single E85 at 72psi. It will most definitely flow more than stock. But why add the complexity of another circuit and more weight if it doesn't outflow a single replacement pump? If you want 600-700hp the e85 pump makes sense, if you want 1000hp then run the two in parallel with upgraded lines and hpfp. Running series with a 255lph max pump through a pump that does 355lpg at 72psi makes no sense. If I had the money, id buy the e85 pump and bench them. But the reality is I don't have the money and if I did, the neigh sayers aren't going to change their minds. I will tell you though, I did study pumps specifically for half a year in college, for what its worth (but tbh you really don't need to study it in college to vet these concepts...).

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    88
    Rep Points
    65.1
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Rep Power
    0


    3 out of 4 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Hey, so, this is my first post (or, one of my first posts, if I don't remember...). I do not know that much about fuel pumps, whatsoever. When changing fuel pumps (Say, swapping a stock unit for a Walbro pump), to the signals to the pump have to change, respectively? If, say, voltage was demanding the stock pump to do what it could not do, would the same signals translate to the desired flow in the upgraded pump?

    I have the Flex Fuel kit installed, and I really do like it! It's nice not having to get the ratios just right (though, I'm sure that the right ratios perform extremely well on other systems, too.). I'm wondering whether this system would work with a swapped pump. I'm certainly willing to do some further testing of my own, especially given how crazily easy it is to access the fuel pump.

Page 7 of 11 FirstFirst ... 56789 ... LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •