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  1. #1
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    Flash + meth actual failsafe

    So, I'm getting ready to help a buddy install a CM Stage 3 meth kit with the 2.2gal integrated tank with VC2 controller and autolearn FSB. Yes, for those that didn't know this is an FSB (I assume designed by Terry) that works without a JB4. This is going on a VW GTI so JB4 is not an option. He has a flash tune, I'm pretty sure APR tune. The meth system looks great as far as the VC2 knowing when to start/stop meth flow, the FSB knows when the flow is good and when it's not. The problem is what happens when the FSB knows that there is a low/no-flow event? The ECU doesn't know this. I know this is why most of the Cobb users use the Aquamist HFS-4, because I'm pretty sure it integrates into the ECU and when low/no-flow is detected it signals the ECU somehow and the ECU reduces timing and boost. Well the VC2 has a 5v output that I can use as a failsafe trigger but what do i use to either bleed boost or vacuum or whatever? Does anyone on here have any experience setting up failsafes on meth kits for flash tunes? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  2. #2
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    The FSB should tap into the boost solenoid/controller and dump it(run WG spring pressure) when it sees no flow.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  3. #3
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    On the FSB the board was designed by CM although we gave a lot of input on it. Then we added a piece of software for what we needed and CM wrote a piece of software for what they needed, and depending on who you buy it from it gets one flash or the other.

    Personally, I'm no longer a fan of the "flow range" binary on/off type failsafes. They just don't provide adequate protection in my opinion. I dealt with them for maybe a year before we did the FSB system up and the shortcomings became glaring. The biggest problems were:

    1) Spool up when boost and timing are high but meth flow is ramping up 500-1000ms behind.
    2) Setting the proper flow window range to avoid false triggers (very annoying) while providing some level of protection.
    3) The delay between a no flow and when boost can actually be reduced. The wastegate method takes at least 1000ms from trigger and maybe much longer until boost is actually cut. And to avoid false triggers most set the bottom limit dangerously low to start with. So it's not even starting to cut boost until well after the actual flow stoppage occurs.

    Long story short, if you are not using a piggyback, I'd just run a not overly aggressive timing curve, increase the air intake temperature timing reduction to maybe 2x stock levels, skip the "failsafe" headaches, and call it a day. Also since you can't easily adjust fuel trims on the fly I would probably shoot for mid 20s on the flash (lower the scalar as needed) so when meth kits in they go no lower than negative 20s.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  4. #4
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    I guess what sucks is he has a couple of maps on his ECU. Flash tuning both in the VW and EVO world is not cheap. So he really has a pump map and a 100oct race map. I've read alot about the IAT tuning for meth as far as when the IAT goes up X amount for the ECU to aggressively pull timing. He'd prob have to get retuned for this. I guess we'll take a look at the logs once we put it on meth and see how aggressive it really is. Not sure, that's quite the risk to take. I really miss my JB4 @Terry@BMS Not even the AMS EMS gives me all the features I had with the JB4. If I were west coast T, I'd give you my car for a while and pay you for a custom EVO JB4 LOL.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  5. #5
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    @rader1 can you elaborate on this, I'm sure he'd rather this than no failsafe at all.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    The FSB should tap into the boost solenoid/controller and dump it(run WG spring pressure) when it sees no flow.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  6. #6
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    @rader1 can you elaborate on this, I'm sure he'd rather this than no failsafe at all.
    I don't want to steer you wrong so I suggest either getting in touch with the company that manufactures the FSB or try asking over at vwvortex.com

    With that said, I would think that it's just a vacuum connection that connects into the WG that, when told to, opens up to dump boost.
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  7. #7
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    i was thinking it was something like that but i can't find that part.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    I don't want to steer you wrong so I suggest either getting in touch with the company that manufactures the FSB or try asking over at vwvortex.com

    With that said, I would think that it's just a vacuum connection that connects into the WG that, when told to, opens up to dump boost.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


  8. #8
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    Sometimes there is a limp pin on the ecu harness that you could trigger. Just a thought.

  9. #9
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    I know subbies have that but I'm not sure about GTI. Ill look into it.
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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