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    This post by M3GTtt is hidden due to excessive negative ratings. Click expand to view the post.


    1995 BMW M3GT nr:111/350 TwinTurbo and some other mods.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    I give up,, maximum stupidity blocker kicked in.
    Americans love their guns. What did you expect? Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sorena Click here to enlarge
    Americans love their guns. What did you expect? Click here to enlarge
    Guns are not the problem, basic common sense tells us this.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Guns are not the problem, basic common sense tells us this.
    Statistics repots what common sense has told you in the past. Unfortunately the statistics are not in your favor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
    1995 BMW M3GT nr:111/350 TwinTurbo and some other mods.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Statistics repots what common sense has told you in the past. Unfortunately the statistics are not in your favor.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ted_death_rate
    Your statistics just show what a $#@!ty society we have. Look at the crime rate in the US vs other countries. You will also see its higher per capita.

    I have already posted the statistics about 5 times in this thread.

    Society proves to be the key point in crime rate, more so then gun ownership. (obviously)




  6. #331
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
    Your statistics just show what a $#@!ty society we have. Look at the crime rate in the US vs other countries. You will also see its higher per capita.

    I have already posted the statistics about 5 times in this thread.

    Society proves to be the key point in crime rate, more so then gun ownership. (obviously)
    It is amazing how you can overlook the "gun factor" and dismiss it as the root of the problem, isn't the gun ownership in the US playing a big part in how your society is going down the drain ($#@!ty society you have). It has already been said that owning a gun is a big part of american culture..well that should tell you guys something?
    Isn't it at least worth looking at, maybe (I would say for sure) but lest say maybe for arguments sake that the freedom you have with your guns is the root of the high rate of crime and high rate of deaths by firearm? and in fact the reason we do NOT see the high crime rates and gun death rates in other similar countries?
    1995 BMW M3GT nr:111/350 TwinTurbo and some other mods.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by funkmobster Click here to enlarge
    How can a gun be in a safe place if it's for home protection. I'm sure most people who have guns for home protection have it within range of their bed or other places and have a full clip ready in the gun.

    You don't want your protection gun to be locked in a safe when you need it in the midlle of the night .
    partially true. this comes in with preparedness. I do not argue that gun ownership is a BIG responsibility, more so with children in the home. BUT. locked away with a key nearby and a few "dry runs" can get the response time to a minimum.

    you have to "war game" / "what if" scenarios.

    for instance, mi AR is under my bed, my mags are filled, but seperate in a drawer on my side. nothing is locked, as i have no kids, yet (will change in 3 months)

    1st warning of threat is dog barking, any other indicators i grab rifle from under bed 3 seconds (including analyzing the situation and deciding its time to grab it), i grab magazine from drawer, .5-1 seconds, load .5 seconds no lights need to be on as i have a surefire on weapon. as thats happening, the wife knows to grab dogs collar and move to far corner, she will stay there, call 911. i sweep and clear house if needed. as of right now, no need to clear entire house as no persons are in harms way. currently we both stay in the room as im aware entrance/exits. (this will also change as a child comes into consideration)

    with no children, response time is we'll say 5-6 seconds from first "alarm" with no children considered.

    kids in the house, you have to plan a little better. krrping things locked is not the issue, its where do you keep the key to the locks. I will probably keep the key taped to something, either inside of the bed rail, or taped to the drawer. somewhere not visible, but can be felt quickly and concurrently with reaching for the mag or rifle. add 3 seconds to grab key, and 1 second to the unlocking portion.

    again, this is for a RIFLE, a weapon that IS NOT good for home defense. (no, its not, in my situation- small house tight spaces ect.. what it is good for and needs to remain legal for is another discussion) now, replace my scenario with a pistol, and time is saved in reaching for and readying the weapon. your still under 10 seconds from first "alarm" to readying the weapon itself. your actions after that are tailored to your household, people, layout and abilities.

    now, no lights on, why? i have night vision optics right, yes, but tight spaces and batteries failing i dont account for it working. AND 1st response is a hella bright light. disorients intruder, and allows me to clearly identify intruder. allows me to confront and ATTEMPT to scare off possible intruder verbally/visually. anything further would have to be impromptu.


    you guys are now saying, yea, but your trained and experienced in weapons.. yes That holds little weight other than i have a higher probability of performing perfectly. NOT of accomplishing the task of safeguarding my home and family.

    What responsible owners would need to do in relation to home defense, is realize there are 2 things. 1 is marksmanship. everyone knows that and practices. What most people DONT do, is rehearse they plan of action if an intruder comes in.
    now you say thats a lot of work.. well, not really.. did any of you know rehearse what to do in case of a fire? never had a fire drill at home with your parents or at school?

    your intent of home defense, is to defend your family, regardless of killing/shooting/wounding the intruder. your #1 priority is defending your family and home. by whatever means neccessary.. you cannot effectivly do that w/o a gun. not possible. noone can logically argue that. whatever plan you have, w/o a firearm incorporate is guaranteed to fail if the intruder has one, or hostile intent.


    what im getting at, is preparing for home defense is more than just having a weapon, and safe storage is imperative for responsible gun ownership. but doing either does not mean the other is worthless.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Hopefully not, but you usually don't see this forehand, normal people snap, kids get their hands on parents guns, neighbours get into a dispute.

    A gun that is handy will always be in the wrong place for the wrong person, but that is the essence of the problem. People can't generally be trusted. Situations can't be prodicted. Having an AR15 with a 30bullet magazine + a couple of fast shooting 9mm with extra long clips laying around wont just escalate any situation, but in many cases be the actual cause of the situation.

    If you think that the 2nd amd. is still justifiable, and should give anyone "demed sane and for change sensable checked out bye authorities" the right to bear arms then why does it need to give you the right to own an aresenal of multi-round military design hardware?? What kind of a burgelar are you expecting??
    really? normal people "snap" and do what, how many "normal" people are involved in those murders? do you just disregard the fact most of those are drug related, ie illegal wepaons used? or we are just to ignore that? show me a single report of a normal person snapping and going on a shooting spree please.. i mean. I have some of the lowest morals around when it comes to humans, own a gun, and have yet to "snap" and kill people i disagree with.. (regardless of what shiv interprets)

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ecampbell Click here to enlarge
    At least federally agreement can be in place to ensure the owners of a gun/rifle are on an annually basis tested to ensure they are mentally stable enough to own it.
    oh, just like drivers license of people 16-21 and 45 and older are tested annually? i mean they do more killings than firearms.. and driving is categorized NOW as a privelage, not a RIGHT.. sooo..

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    partially true. this comes in with preparedness. I do not argue that gun ownership is a BIG responsibility, more so with children in the home. BUT. locked away with a key nearby and a few "dry runs" can get the response time to a minimum.

    you have to "war game" / "what if" scenarios.

    for instance, mi AR is under my bed, my mags are filled, but seperate in a drawer on my side. nothing is locked, as i have no kids, yet (will change in 3 months)

    1st warning of threat is dog barking, any other indicators i grab rifle from under bed 3 seconds (including analyzing the situation and deciding its time to grab it), i grab magazine from drawer, .5-1 seconds, load .5 seconds no lights need to be on as i have a surefire on weapon. as thats happening, the wife knows to grab dogs collar and move to far corner, she will stay there, call 911. i sweep and clear house if needed. as of right now, no need to clear entire house as no persons are in harms way. currently we both stay in the room as im aware entrance/exits. (this will also change as a child comes into consideration)

    with no children, response time is we'll say 5-6 seconds from first "alarm" with no children considered.

    kids in the house, you have to plan a little better. krrping things locked is not the issue, its where do you keep the key to the locks. I will probably keep the key taped to something, either inside of the bed rail, or taped to the drawer. somewhere not visible, but can be felt quickly and concurrently with reaching for the mag or rifle. add 3 seconds to grab key, and 1 second to the unlocking portion.

    again, this is for a RIFLE, a weapon that IS NOT good for home defense. (no, its not, in my situation- small house tight spaces ect.. what it is good for and needs to remain legal for is another discussion) now, replace my scenario with a pistol, and time is saved in reaching for and readying the weapon. your still under 10 seconds from first "alarm" to readying the weapon itself. your actions after that are tailored to your household, people, layout and abilities.

    now, no lights on, why? i have night vision optics right, yes, but tight spaces and batteries failing i dont account for it working. AND 1st response is a hella bright light. disorients intruder, and allows me to clearly identify intruder. allows me to confront and ATTEMPT to scare off possible intruder verbally/visually. anything further would have to be impromptu.


    you guys are now saying, yea, but your trained and experienced in weapons.. yes That holds little weight other than i have a higher probability of performing perfectly. NOT of accomplishing the task of safeguarding my home and family.

    What responsible owners would need to do in relation to home defense, is realize there are 2 things. 1 is marksmanship. everyone knows that and practices. What most people DONT do, is rehearse they plan of action if an intruder comes in.
    now you say thats a lot of work.. well, not really.. did any of you know rehearse what to do in case of a fire? never had a fire drill at home with your parents or at school?

    your intent of home defense, is to defend your family, regardless of killing/shooting/wounding the intruder. your #1 priority is defending your family and home. by whatever means neccessary.. you cannot effectivly do that w/o a gun. not possible. noone can logically argue that. whatever plan you have, w/o a firearm incorporate is guaranteed to fail if the intruder has one, or hostile intent.


    what im getting at, is preparing for home defense is more than just having a weapon, and safe storage is imperative for responsible gun ownership. but doing either does not mean the other is worthless.
    Nice writup and very similar to my/our situation. I have a 2 year old in the house so keeping something w a round chambered is not an option. I keep a Benelli M1 Super 90 mounted to the underside of my bed - I think that's the best weapon inside the house combined with a Glock 21, but the Glock stays in the gunsafe now. Oh and I just picked up one of these for the Super 90 - works amazing.

    Click here to enlarge

    Congrats on the new addition to the family !!

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    Comparing cars and firearms are we, this ANR Logic is nuts.

    Ownership of cars is very wide spread, almost everyone uses one
    they are used more and for longer than guns
    Most of the time when someone is killed by a car its accident and not premeditated
    A car is not designed to kill, a gun is designed to kill

    Lostmarine I read your long post above, If you think you need to sleep with an AR15 under your bed and full magazines in a drawer near by, and have actually thought of response time, I would actually go as far as classifying you as boarderine mental, this is paranoid schizophrenia! If this is what you would classify as "normal home defense" than I can understand partially the discussion ongoing about mental health in general...........

    Maybe the general concept and understanding of "normal" has been totally lost throughout the years, and this is why I and some other people here can't understand what you are on about. There is so much fear being fed to you by the media that you are kept in constant distrust of everyone around you, everyone is a potential enemy.

    more guns will not fix your problem, the solution to cancer is not more cancer.
    1995 BMW M3GT nr:111/350 TwinTurbo and some other mods.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Comparing cars and firearms are we, this ANR Logic is nuts.

    Ownership of cars is very wide spread, almost everyone uses one
    they are used more and for longer than guns
    Most of the time when someone is killed by a car its accident and not premeditated
    A car is not designed to kill, a gun is designed to kill

    Lostmarine I read your long post above, If you think you need to sleep with an AR15 under your bed and full magazines in a drawer near by, and have actually thought of response time, I would actually go as far as classifying you as boarderine mental, this is paranoid schizophrenia! If this is what you would classify as "normal home defense" than I can understand partially the discussion ongoing about mental health in general...........

    Maybe the general concept and understanding of "normal" has been totally lost throughout the years, and this is why I and some other people here can't understand what you are on about. There is so much fear being fed to you by the media that you are kept in constant distrust of everyone around you, everyone is a potential enemy.

    more guns will not fix your problem, the solution to cancer is not more cancer.
    No it's not, it's called being prepared. You can NEVER bee TOO prepared.

    "Be Prepared... the meaning of the motto is that a scout must prepare himself by previous thinking out and practicing how to act on any accident or emergency so that he is never taken by surprise."


    -Robert Baden-Powell

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    really? normal people "snap" and do what, how many "normal" people are involved in those murders? do you just disregard the fact most of those are drug related, ie illegal wepaons used? or we are just to ignore that? show me a single report of a normal person snapping and going on a shooting spree please.. i mean. I have some of the lowest morals around when it comes to humans, own a gun, and have yet to "snap" and kill people i disagree with.. (regardless of what shiv interprets)
    You? never Click here to enlarge

    RB TURBOSSSS Click here to enlarge

    <3 CONTINUE ON GENTS.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LZH Click here to enlarge
    No it's not, it's called being prepared. You can NEVER bee TOO prepared.

    "Be Prepared... the meaning of the motto is that a scout must prepare himself by previous thinking out and practicing how to act on any accident or emergency so that he is never taken by surprise."


    -Robert Baden-Powell

    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    . There is so much fear being fed to you by the media that you are kept in constant distrust of everyone around you, everyone is a potential enemy.
    You propose restricting the rights of all law-abiding citizens due to the actions of a very few mentally instable individuals that illegally acquired firearms to do their deeds. The irony of your statement is overwhelming.
    Current: '00 S2000
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by sr20seb Click here to enlarge
    LOL!! Exactly - "Broke in the the wrong god damn rec room didn't you, you bastard??!!!!"

    LOL!!!

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    I feel that people that oppose guns are the same ones that would in the face of danger or the opportunity to prevent farther damage, would cower.

    BUT without having a way to defend yourself and stand your ground, there isn't much more you can do.
    Last edited by Legionofboom; 12-20-2012 at 04:57 PM.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by whoosh Click here to enlarge
    You propose restricting the rights of all law-abiding citizens due to the actions of a very few mentally instable individuals that illegally acquired firearms to do their deeds. The irony of your statement is overwhelming.
    Yes, and why? Because the statistics proves it.

    rights of citizens need to be restricted. To name a few common restrictions/limitations
    1. Speed limits
    2. Rights to buy alcohol by age
    3. Rights to vote by age
    4. Building regulations for safety
    5. License to drive, pilot an plane, to sail a ship
    and so on,.. This is why we have legislation,limits, and restriction because otherwise society would not function

    The US situation proves that freedom to own a gun does not work, to argue that you need one because its likely that the other person has one is stupid, rather you should accept the fact that you would not feel the need for one if the consensus was that very few people had guns (basically like the rest of the developed world thinks by the way).

    you are posting a video of a person shooting at innocent citizens as your defense to public gun ownership,,, LOL you must me nuts, without a gun he would not be shooting in the fist place!
    1995 BMW M3GT nr:111/350 TwinTurbo and some other mods.

  19. #344
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Yes, and why? Because the statistics proves it.

    rights of citizens need to be restricted. To name a few common restrictions/limitations
    1. Speed limits
    2. Rights to buy alcohol by age
    3. Rights to vote by age
    4. Building regulations for safety
    5. License to drive, pilot an plane, to sail a ship
    and so on,.. This is why we have legislation,limits, and restriction because otherwise society would not function

    The US situation proves that freedom to own a gun does not work, to argue that you need one because its likely that the other person has one is stupid, rather you should accept the fact that you would not feel the need for one if the consensus was that very few people had guns (basically like the rest of the developed world thinks by the way).

    you are posting a video of a person shooting at innocent citizens as your defense to public gun ownership,,, LOL you must me nuts, without a gun he would not be shooting in the fist place!
    1. Speed limits - lol nobody follows these
    2. Rights to buy alcohol by age - again, doesn't work
    3. Rights to vote by age - should be raised to 25 and not allowed to vote if receiving benefits from the government
    4. Building regulations for safety - people go around this all the time
    5. License to drive, pilot an plane, to sail a ship
    and so on,.. This is why we have legislation,limits, and restriction because otherwise society would not function - people drive without licenses daily, or even better suspended licenses.


    ​"The rest of the developed world" Im guessing you're saying the UK, which last year had 40k+ gun related incidents, in a country where its illegal to own a gun.

    Thats a statistic.

    You say "without a gun he would not be shooting in the fist place!"

    We can't "ban" guns, the UK crime rates show that, it does not work. If people want a gun, they will get one. All restricting gun ownership does it make it harder for law abiding citizens to protect themselves.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Someone from Washington.
    A ex girlfriend of mine had her home "raided" by 4 guys with ski mask and FULL AUTOMATIC weapons (how they got them nobody knows), they didn't kill anyone (thank god), just held them up, raided the house and then left.

    Things like this do happen.
    Last edited by Legionofboom; 12-20-2012 at 05:16 PM.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    What kind of a burgelar are you expecting??
    Someone from Washington.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    Comparing cars and firearms are we, this ANR Logic is nuts.
    why? because one kills many more people than the other, is easier to get, requires less training and has more collateral damage to the other? one is regarded as a privilege, the other is constitutionally protected as RIGHT. oh, now taking something away from YOU is harsh? now, because we attack something YOU feel you have "RIGHT" to own and operate is illogical and shouldnt be brought up? my my.. how selfish of you..

    Ownership of cars is very wide spread, almost everyone uses one so is gun ownership in America
    they are used more and for longer than gu really? wow, i didnt know cars are passed down from generation to generation, didnt know cars were around longer than guns, whats with all the horses prior to the 1900's then?
    Most of the time when someone is killed by a car its accident and not premeditat aaaand... so because 40 people die intentionally, due to illegal actions, that makes the other 80millions BAD.. but "accidentally" killing hundreds of thousands is fine, because it was an accident.. wheres the logic there.. if your gal is to save lives, why does it matter intentional or accidental? a child dying by gunshot is worse than a child dying in a vehicle accident? according to who? the parent of gunshot victim? certainly not the vehicle accidents victims parents.. nice logic again
    A car is not designed to kill, a gun is designed to kill. yes, it is designed to kill. guess what else is "designed to kill"... every human being... AND carnivorous animals.. so how do you stop an animal trying to kill you? with a butter knife? how do you stop a person trying to kill you? with harsh words? great logic again

    Lostmarine I read your long post above, If you think you need to sleep with an AR15 under your bed and full magazines in a drawer near by, and have actually thought of response time, I would actually go as far as classifying you as boarderine mental, this is paranoid schizophrenia! If this is what you would classify as "normal home defense" than I can understand partially the discussion ongoing about mental health in general...........you analyizing a responsible gun owner and deeming them mental, is exactly why you dont have the right, nor comprehension to be giving advice on gun ownership.. do you have a smoke alarm in your house? why? do you lock your door? why? have you ever faced death by another person? probably not. ignoring reality is dimensia, and YOU should be committed, and thats the mental healtchare we need examine

    Maybe the general concept and understanding of "normal" has been totally lost throughout the years, and this is why I and some other people here can't understand what you are on about. There is so much fear being fed to you by the media that you are kept in constant distrust of everyone around you, everyone is a potential enemy.
    re-read above

    more guns will not fix your problem, the solution to cancer is not more cancer.anyour right, can i give you cancer though? no, so noone is trying to use cancer as a weapon.. failed logic, again and again

    response in bold Click here to enlarge

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    ^ you spelled goal wrong Click here to enlarge

    hahhaha jjkjkjkjk i hate when i write all that then find stupid spelling errors.




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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by M3GTtt Click here to enlarge
    rights of citizens need to be restricted. To name a few common restrictions/limitations
    1. Speed limits
    2. Rights to buy alcohol by age
    3. Rights to vote by age
    4. Building regulations for safety
    5. License to drive, pilot an plane, to sail a ship
    and so on,.. This is why we have legislation,limits, and restriction because otherwise society would not function
    What we are talking about here is the right to self defense, either from criminals or from government. This is the most fundamental of human rights, regardless of your country, race, age, gender, etc. This is a universal right, protected within the US by the Bill of Rights. Suggesting that a right should be restricted is contrary to the very definition of a right.

    1. Driving is not a right. I can exist just fine using any number of means of transport. Also, Speed limits are a great example of a law that is nearly universally broken.
    2. There is no Federal law mandating a minimum age to purchase alcohol. I can live my life just fine without consumption of alcohol.
    3. Since voting is an action within government, it has domain over those rules. I can choose not to participate in government, and unless government becomes aggressive towards me, we will get along just fine.
    4. Not even remotely near a right.
    5. Not a right, not a right, not a right.
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  24. #349
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    really? normal people "snap" and do what, how many "normal" people are involved in those murders? do you just disregard the fact most of those are drug related, ie illegal wepaons used? or we are just to ignore that? show me a single report of a normal person snapping and going on a shooting spree please.. i mean. I have some of the lowest morals around when it comes to humans, own a gun, and have yet to "snap" and kill people i disagree with.. (regardless of what shiv interprets)
    What about that guy that E90SoFlo linked to the youtube video? Tyler Brehm, he wasn't mentally ill, a perfectly normal dude. It appears that he just did that, and snapped.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    oh, just like drivers license of people 16-21 and 45 and older are tested annually? i mean they do more killings than firearms.. and driving is categorized NOW as a privelage, not a RIGHT.. sooo..
    So you don't like my plan which means either you have something better or you think the system is fine as is. Are you saying it is fine for an individual who at one point was mentally stable but now is not, to possess firearms?

    Which developed country has the most loose gun laws? Which developed country has the most gun deaths...see a correlation? Forgive my ignorance but were assault weapons like AK47's available when your 2nd amendment was written? I suspect not which means the amendment needs to be updated.

    I am not saying to ban the guns you hold so precious, i am saying the law needs to be updated to reflect that the world has changed.
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    I will quit being rude if you quit being stupid.

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