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  1. #176
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    I think before you turn it off you should eliminate normal causes, like injector spray pattern, as those will melt a piston quickly. Click here to enlarge
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  2. #177
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I think before you turn it off you should eliminate normal causes, like injector spray pattern, as those will melt a piston quickly. Click here to enlarge
    Yes, for sure, first change the usual suspects: coils, plugs, injectors, in that bank2 at least, make sure you've got the clips on the injectors and they're seated properly. Once you're past those and its still happening, well...
    Click here to enlarge

  3. #178
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    I've changed the CPS sensor. Recently with my top end build I've also changed out the oil pump Click here to enlarge CPS is definitely involved but we don't know if there are other things as well until that part of the DME is wide in the open and we know what exactly makes it tick. This is why I very strongly suggest to people with this issue to just turn it off for the time being until that part of the DME is exposed instead of wasting their time/money with the car instead of enjoying the newfound power toys

    When you had your engine out did you replace lifters and valve springs?

  4. #179
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    When you had your engine out did you replace lifters and valve springs?
    All new springs both sides. Lifters need to have a certain dip on their face to be deemed bad. All of mine were perfectly flat and I didn't want to change them. Keep in mind all of these misfires are in bank2, all the time. Its very unlikely its a bad lifter but if you're inclined to change them out go for it. I don't suggest it as I really doubt its the case.
    Click here to enlarge

  5. #180
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Just a thought:

    In vast majority of cars the misfire detection is based upon "sudden" crank slowdown making the DME think combustion was incomplete (i.e. misfired). I think it may be possible that a sudden change in boost (a sudden drop) where the crank would suddenly slow down a bit under WOT (and anything associated to it) may be at fault here which trips the DME's misfire threshold. With heat build-up in the high RPM range on higher gears this may be a possibility and something I haven't considered before.

    EDIT: What sort of throws off the above theory is that the misfire is ALWAYS registered against bank2, always!
    One thing you are making me wonder, has anybody with the misfire problem ever duplicated the problem with a SMFW installed? I just ask because I notice that on hard shifts I seem to get several samples of rpm oscillation on the Cobb logger before it settles out again. I assume it due to the DMFW oscillating. In my low-power case that seems to cause more sensitive knock readings but I don't have the misfire issue. But since I have seen it affect the ECU, I'm just wondering if anybody with a SMFW has ever had your misfire issue? The DMFW will allow a lot more instantaneous change in rpm.

  6. #181
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Carl Morris Click here to enlarge
    One thing you are making me wonder, has anybody with the misfire problem ever duplicated the problem with a SMFW installed? I just ask because I notice that on hard shifts I seem to get several samples of rpm oscillation on the Cobb logger before it settles out again. I assume it due to the DMFW oscillating. In my low-power case that seems to cause more sensitive knock readings but I don't have the misfire issue. But since I have seen it affect the ECU, I'm just wondering if anybody with a SMFW has ever had your misfire issue? The DMFW will allow a lot more instantaneous change in rpm.
    Shiv is running a single mass, FBIS is running a single mass flywheel. AFAIK they don't misfire. My issues have all been with the DMFW in place as my single mass flywheel from CM went before putting on RB turbos as far as I remember. I'll have to double check though.

    However, if that were indeed the case, why ONLY and ALWAYS bank2! Click here to enlarge

    EDIT: Another funny thing since we're on it, both Shiv and FBIS run a 3.46 rear end!
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-10-2012 at 04:33 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  7. #182
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    I have the stock dual mass with a spec clutch..and it misfires so I wouldn't rule it out yet.

  8. #183
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    Long shot- but being that bank two is heartily affected by the PCV system deficiencies any thoughts on the DME's reaction to oil ingestion into those bank 2 cylinders? One post for day.

    Rob

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    It is no secret that the N52 has major problems with bad lifters, the N54 uses the same lifters (same part #). I know this SIB doesn't list the N54 but we could still be experiencing this same issue that causes problems with many other BMW engines.

    Situation 2


    Binding HVA element.
    Cause
    An HVA element which is binding (element stuck in the extended position) will not allow avalve (intake or exhaust) to seat properly causing valve seat leakage.
    This type of HVA failure may not cause a tapping/rattling noise but the customer complaint may be, "engine runs rough during the warm up phase and runs good when warmed up" and/or the "Check Engine" lamp is on.
    If the "Check Engine" lamp is illuminated due to a binding HVA element(s) one or more misfire fault codes may be set in the Engine Control Module (ECM/DME).
    Note: Basic troubleshooting should be performed First before checking for a binding HVA element to eliminate all other possible factors/components which could set the misfire faults such as low fuel level, a faulty spark plug, etc.
    Troubleshooting Tips:
    • If there is a binding HVA element in one or more cylinders as described above a misfire fault can typically be reproduced in the affected cylinderfs) by duplicating the conditions in which the misfire occurred according to the DME/ECM fault code description i.e., at engine temperature = X, engine speed = X, etc.
    • A binding HVA element which is causing a misfire in one specific cylinder will not "move" to an other cylinder and will always cause a misfire fault in the affected cylinder.
    • Performing the "Smooth-Running" test (found in the DME control unit functions section of DIS) will assist in pin pointing a cylinder with a binding HVA element.
    A cylinder with a binding HVA element will indicate a high reading when compared to the other good cylinders.
    • Since a binding HVA element may in some cases be intermittent (engine only runs rough when cold) if a cylinder leak down check is used for troubleshooting this should be performed when the problem exists, for example: compare the cylinder leakage rates to each other with a cold engine to determine the cylinder with the extreme leakage rate.
    A cylinder with a binding HVA element will indicate a leakage rate above 15%.
    Remove suspected HVA elements and visually inspect.
    • A binding HVA element will typically have a high pressure piston (located in the center of the HVA element body) which extends out approximately 3 mm further when compared to the other HVA elements removed from the cylinder head.
    Replace any binding HVA element(s) and check others for extreme wear (deep grooves, scratches, etc.) which may also need to be replaced.
    Note: Always reinstall used HVA elements in the same bore which they were removed from. This prevents possible binding due to different wear patterns between the bore in the HVA housing and HVA element.



    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti..._problems.aspx

  10. #185
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Rob@RBTurbo Click here to enlarge
    Long shot- but being that bank two is heartily affected by the PCV system deficiencies any thoughts on the DME's reaction to oil ingestion into those bank 2 cylinders? One post for day.

    Rob
    Zero chance. Under boost there's absolutely nothing going down those passages through the valve cover down into the cylinder head as the intake manifold and the runners are under boost. Its not like you go WOT and misfire. You have to be in a higher gear and in it for a bit and go in the higher RPM and then it'll happen.
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-10-2012 at 04:47 PM.
    Click here to enlarge

  11. #186
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    It is no secret that the N52 has major problems with bad lifters, the N54 uses the same lifters (same part #). I know this SIB doesn't list the N54 but we could still be experiencing this same issue that causes problems with many other BMW engines.

    Situation 2


    Binding HVA element.
    Cause
    An HVA element which is binding (element stuck in the extended position) will not allow avalve (intake or exhaust) to seat properly causing valve seat leakage.
    This type of HVA failure may not cause a tapping/rattling noise but the customer complaint may be, "engine runs rough during the warm up phase and runs good when warmed up" and/or the "Check Engine" lamp is on.
    If the "Check Engine" lamp is illuminated due to a binding HVA element(s) one or more misfire fault codes may be set in the Engine Control Module (ECM/DME).
    Note: Basic troubleshooting should be performed First before checking for a binding HVA element to eliminate all other possible factors/components which could set the misfire faults such as low fuel level, a faulty spark plug, etc.
    Troubleshooting Tips:
    • If there is a binding HVA element in one or more cylinders as described above a misfire fault can typically be reproduced in the affected cylinderfs) by duplicating the conditions in which the misfire occurred according to the DME/ECM fault code description i.e., at engine temperature = X, engine speed = X, etc.
    • A binding HVA element which is causing a misfire in one specific cylinder will not "move" to an other cylinder and will always cause a misfire fault in the affected cylinder.
    • Performing the "Smooth-Running" test (found in the DME control unit functions section of DIS) will assist in pin pointing a cylinder with a binding HVA element.
    A cylinder with a binding HVA element will indicate a high reading when compared to the other good cylinders.
    • Since a binding HVA element may in some cases be intermittent (engine only runs rough when cold) if a cylinder leak down check is used for troubleshooting this should be performed when the problem exists, for example: compare the cylinder leakage rates to each other with a cold engine to determine the cylinder with the extreme leakage rate.
    A cylinder with a binding HVA element will indicate a leakage rate above 15%.
    Remove suspected HVA elements and visually inspect.
    • A binding HVA element will typically have a high pressure piston (located in the center of the HVA element body) which extends out approximately 3 mm further when compared to the other HVA elements removed from the cylinder head.
    Replace any binding HVA element(s) and check others for extreme wear (deep grooves, scratches, etc.) which may also need to be replaced.
    Note: Always reinstall used HVA elements in the same bore which they were removed from. This prevents possible binding due to different wear patterns between the bore in the HVA housing and HVA element.

    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Arti..._problems.aspx
    Unless your motor runs rough during warm up this is a no go. There was nothing binding in my top end either.
    Click here to enlarge

  12. #187
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    Great tech in this thread!

  13. #188
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Blaizon Click here to enlarge
    Great tech in this thread!
    and to think they say most of us are haters Click here to enlarge

  14. #189
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
    Yes, I am having some issues with misfires at ~6500rpm, very similar to the same issue that DZENNO had (who never had a Vishnu Single). We are still working on a solution. This forces me to shift aroun 6300 or I'm guaranteed to go limp.

    At PBIR, I only managed to get one clean run, which was my first run. I was shifting at 6200-6200 (900-1000rpm short of redline). I did 12.50 at 121.6mph.

    The Friday night before at OSW I did 12.7 at 123mph.

    All these passes were at 23psi. Once everything looks good and is running right, I will go up to 25psi (which is where I would make close to the claimed 650whp). At 23 psi and at 6300rpm, it's probably making 510-520whp.

    From my experience drag racing, I'd be willing to bet a good some of money that the car will trap over 130mph when I can shift at 7200rpm at 25psi.

    Other issues I'm having is my ACT clutch is dragging. I couldn't stay still at the line and hold rpm without rolling past the beams. This also means I couldn't use 2-step to launch. Try launching a big turbo car without building boost. It is no fun and is laggy as hell, so I'm essentially wasting distance.

    I also couldn't use NLS because of the ACT clutch. It doesn't work well because of the low engagement point. ACT clutch is coming out this week for a new Spec clutch.

    Im late, apparantly way late as 0-10 pages in a day.

    1st, THANK YOU! Its refreshing to hear something about the kit.

    2nd, its because your spraying so much meth, GUARANTEED!

    3rd, i dont think your ricer math is accurate, 7+mph from3 psi is not gonna get you where you claim to be. I hope you prove me wrong, but my opinion differs than yours.

  15. #190
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Im late, apparantly way late as 0-10 pages in a day.

    1st, THANK YOU! Its refreshing to hear something about the kit.

    2nd, its because your spraying so much meth, GUARANTEED!

    3rd, i dont think your ricer math is accurate, 7+mph from3 psi is not gonna get you where you claim to be. I hope you prove me wrong, but my opinion differs than yours.
    Thanks...I think?

    7+ mph would come from being able to run the gears all the way to 7200rpm, instead of 6300 rpm. Plus maybe a little more boost.

    Hopefully we find a solution soon. I will get 60-130 times that same day!

  16. #191
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
    Thanks...I think?

    7+ mph would come from being able to run the gears all the way to 7200rpm, instead of 6300 rpm. Plus maybe a little more boost.

    Hopefully we find a solution soon. I will get 60-130 times that same day!
    i really hope you do fix it. I am very happy and thankful you are posting. keeping things quiet doesnt get people moving as fast as they could.

    i understand the correlation between more rpm and more boost, but i dont see it happening. for now thats a sidebar though, we can argue that later Click here to enlarge
    its more imprtant to narrow down causes. is it essential to run the meth? is it essential to run ALL the meth nozzles?

  17. #192
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    i really hope you do fix it. I am very happy and thankful you are posting. keeping things quiet doesnt get people moving as fast as they could.

    i understand the correlation between more rpm and more boost, but i dont see it happening. for now thats a sidebar though, we can argue that later Click here to enlarge
    its more imprtant to narrow down causes. is it essential to run the meth? is it essential to run ALL the meth nozzles?
    The car won't misfire at lower boost with meth still activated.

  18. #193
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
    The car won't misfire at lower boost with meth still activated.
    whats low boost? when do you need meth and how flexible is the meth kit? all 4 nozzles from 1 pump?

  19. #194
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    Its not meth. He'll misfire at same boost without meth too i bet at least that's what happened in my case. Funny its 15psi as that was the magic number for me too up there Click here to enlarge too similar yet vastly different turbo setups..
    Click here to enlarge

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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    whats low boost? when do you need meth and how flexible is the meth kit? all 4 nozzles from 1 pump?
    At 17 PSI it didn't misfire, this will flow same amount of meth as pump is activated 100% at 5 psi and duty cycle of FAV is at 100% on full boost. I don't think we can run much higher than 16psi without meth. I don't really want to be the guinea pig to find out how much boost we can run before we need meth.

    The key thing to remember with the meth is that there is only (1) FAV. This will be the limiting factor in the meth flow. (1) FAV can only flow 1200-1300 cc/min max, I believe. And that is what we are seeing.

    If it was the meth, then how would it explain that the misfire happens in only cylinders 4 and 6 at the same exact RPM every time.

  21. #196
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    It's not meth causing the misfire. The AFRs in the ST logs i've seen have looked good so i'm assuming the meth isn't drowning the CC quenching the spark or flame front.


    I am almost 100% convinced it's an issue with the DME's misfire detection system or how the O2 sensors are placed.

    Georgiatech, have you been able to verify that there is in fact not a real misfire occuring? Have you been able to get the car scoped?
    Click here to enlarge
    MOTIV750, MOTIV P-1000 PI, MOTIV/FUEL-IT! low pressure fuel system, AEM EMS/COBB AP, Aquamist HFS-3, ETS FMIC, SPEC stage 3+ clutch/SS flywheel, BC Racing coilovers and VMR wheels wrapped in Hankook RS3s.

  22. #197
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Im late, apparantly way late as 0-10 pages in a day.

    1st, THANK YOU! Its refreshing to hear something about the kit.

    2nd, its because your spraying so much meth, GUARANTEED!

    3rd, i dont think your ricer math is accurate, 7+mph from3 psi is not gonna get you where you claim to be. I hope you prove me wrong, but my opinion differs than yours.

    You're wrong..it's not meth related.. I ran the same four meth nozzles with my stock turbos and it was not a problem. Consistently ran 11.5's@121 with no issues, I have 300 time slips.

  23. #198
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    you ran 4 meth nozzles/same exact setup on stock turbo's? interesting. what was your boost looking like? never any misfires? what meth content are you guys using?

    georgia, im not saying test it out. i was under the assumption that since fueling was solved and tuning was ok, meth is not required? am i wrong then?

  24. #199
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    you ran 4 meth nozzles/same exact setup on stock turbo's? interesting. what was your boost looking like? never any misfires? what meth content are you guys using?

    georgia, im not saying test it out. i was under the assumption that since fueling was solved and tuning was ok, meth is not required? am i wrong then?

    I have always run 100% M100

    And 100% E85

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    I have always run 100% M100

    And 100% E85
    and this is the same car?
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    You're wrong..it's not meth related.. I ran the same four meth nozzles with my stock turbos and it was not a problem. Consistently ran 11.5's@121 with no issues, I have 300 time slips.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    I can't remember all the codes
    30BB Bank 2 or ECU failure was one of them
    and I had multiple missfire codes.

    My problem ended up being cylinder 5&6 MOSFETs failed.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    I've already swapped my injectors around and the misfire stays on cyl6 and 4 and I've had it also show up on 5 few times now, the misfire is always on bank 2 and it does not misfire for a little while if I reset adaptations.

    Could my DSC or wheel speed sensor be causing the bank 2 misfire? My ribbon inside the slipring for the steering wheel is damaged and as a result my dsc faults are all present.

    (If you ever disconnect your steering linkage to drop the front sub frame, lock your car and make sure that no one can get inside, one of my A hole friends got inside my car and turned the steering wheel which somehow made the ribbon un-spool and lucky me felt the ribbon break when I pulled the car out of the shop)
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by tmo335tt Click here to enlarge
    Did you ever pin point what was causing your misfire for sure?

    My car is doing the same things you describe. I get a cyl6 misfire no matter what above 6,000 rpm. It doesn't do it in 1st or 2nd gear.

    Thinks done thus far
    1. Swapped coils
    2. New plugs
    3. New injector and recoded
    4. Disconnected piggy and still happens
    5. Cleared adaptations
    6. Walnutshell blasted intake valves so clean u could eat off them
    7. Replace o2 sensors
    8. Changed load threshold through ECU flash which raised rpm a few hundred more before misfiring.
    9. Swapped o2 sensor plugs only without changing banks just to see what would happen, the car ran perfect all the way to redline several pulls through every gear to 160mph... Changed the plugs back to the way they should be and the misfire is back. Switched the plugs again and reset adaptations with GT1 and the car ran like total ass and would barely idle.
    10. Checked DME and everything was fine (MSD80)
    11. Compression test revealed all cylinder were 185 or a little above.

    At this point I don't know what to do. I'm thinking about pulling the valve cover to check the rectaring that you have talked about. Was the rectaring really the culprit in you case?

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