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Thread: Vishnu Single Turbo at PBIR - 12.50@121.6 having to shift all gears at 6300rpm

              
   
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    After seeing the car run despite its problems I know potential when I see it, and there is a whole can of whop azz ready to be unleashed.

    Even though I am strickly pro Flash, its inspiration cannot be passed off not being uninfluenced. This makes me to want upgraded "TWINS" even more. Hopefully when all the bugs get worked out I should have my upgraded TWINS also so we can go play Click here to enlarge
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Aced16 Click here to enlarge
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    I want to go! I meant to text you to see how the car was, but have been swamped. Hope you get it all resolved soon, as I still need a ride!
    I'll let you know when I sign up.

    My car will be at PSI tomorrow getting the coil overs installed. You can try to stop by and I'll give you a ride. I'll have to short shift, but you'll at least get the idea.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
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    After seeing the car run despite its problems I know potential when I see it, and there is a whole can of whop azz ready to be unleashed.

    Even though I am strickly pro Flash, its inspiration cannot be passed off not being uninfluenced. This makes me to want upgraded "TWINS" even more. Hopefully when all the bugs get worked out I should have my upgraded TWINS also so we can go play Click here to enlarge
    Do it! The top end gain (from the little I can experience) feels great. Very different than stock.

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    Is it not possible to tune these ST cars with Cobb ATP? If I was a ST guy with these problems I'd at least spend the money on an AP to see if it fixes the problem. If it doesn't, return it or sell it. They have a return policy and have great resale value.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
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    I'll let you know when I sign up.

    My car will be at PSI tomorrow getting the coil overs installed. You can try to stop by and I'll give you a ride. I'll have to short shift, but you'll at least get the idea.
    wish I was in orlando, I want a ride Click here to enlarge

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
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    Is it not possible to tune these ST cars with Cobb ATP? If I was a ST guy with these problems I'd at least spend the money on an AP to see if it fixes the problem. If it doesn't, return it or sell it. They have a return policy and have great resale value.
    I would think the tables would all be completely off.
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    @GeorgiaTech335Coupe , sorry to hear you're having issues with your car after having put in so much into it. I will tell you right now, you'll just end up getting very frustrated trying to resolve the issue with further hardware replacement. I've even opened up my motor in hopes of finding "something" that will prove to be the cause. I hoped for a head gasket, a burnt valve, weak spring, all sorts of things just to be finally able to put my finger on what it is. I've played with gaps on the plugs, NGK coils, injector replacement. In other words, I strongly recommend you don't go down the same path. Many seem to have this issue which ends up getting unresolved and they end up never mentioning a thing on the forums which doesn't shed enough light on this issue.

    My issue started with putting in RB turbos. I did have Procede on the car at the time. However, hotrod has also had the same issue reported and he never ran anything but the JB. I tried all the major tunes after it started to misfire as well and the issue was still there with everything 100% functionally working.

    My best advice to you as I want to see you enjoy your car, get good numbers out of it and not end up regretting going for more power is to just turn off misfire detection. I am well aware of what this entails and that its not a solution but a workaround but trust me, you will start regretting your decision to go with a single turbo only to be troubleshooting and dumping money into it to solve this issue when it may very well end up being something that the stock DME wasn't built to handle properly. If Shiv's flash can't turn off misfire detection just get an AP, ask him to move the settings over and be done with it.

    People need to realize and understand what misfire detection is about and what a "misfire" represents and most importantly WHY has BMW decided to shut down fuel injection entirely as a result of misfires. The reason is environmental/emissions. An incomplete burn will pollute the environment and to conform to regulations they must do this. This wasn't the case in the past with cars as they'd just let you feel the actual misfires and in most cases they'd give you a check engine light only, not cut fuel to the cylinders or in this case to the entire bank.

    Obviously since this issue is quite new to you you'll be eager to solve it the "right" way but I strongly advise you not to go down that road, turn off misfire detection, put the car on the dyno and see if there are power issues in that misfire prone rev range and if there are none I wouldn't worry about it at all until more is known. See how the car "feels" with the detection off.

    If I had to guess the issue is to do with misfire detection algorithms and we don't have access to those just yet to be able to adjust or begin to understand the reasons why. It may be just too sensitive given what's happening with the motor at higher power levels and dumping time/parts at it can be deemed a waste at this point as I have very little doubt its anything hardware related.

    Having said all that, I do have to say that its ironic it came back to bite Shiv again. He went to such lengths in undermining all my efforts with the N54 after I left the procede camp to even mock me because of the car misfiring in the same way you, Big Tom, hotrod, and a bunch of others did. He even brainwashed sikh335 into mocking the same way only to have this issue come back on his ST cars. I recall Former_Boosted_IS's car also misfiring on the dyno but they were fixed with NGK plugs gapped at 0.022" apparently. I've learned not to trust anything coming from Vishnu and really do appreciate your openness on the subject sir. Anything you may need, any questions let me know. I'll be glad to help as much as I can.

    Again, just turn that misfire detection off, you'll be glad you did.
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    But you can manipulate the tables however you want. The only issue I see is the wastegate controll. I'm no expert but I don't see how it's impossible.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335Coupe Click here to enlarge
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    Do it! The top end gain (from the little I can experience) feels great. Very different than stock.
    Yup, I dont have to feel jealous anymore when seeing a GTR.... LOL.... and spend less to do what they do and still enjoy BMW quality
    > AP-V3 & Cobb Protuned by PTF: (New Times Coming Soon)
    > RENNtech Tuning: 11.78 ET @ 116 Mph in 1/4 mile
    > Dinan Stage 3: 12.5 ET (Best) 111 Mph (Best) in 1/4 mile
    > 400+ launches, 3 Driveshafts, No DCT Slippage, Flash Only


  10. #84
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    @GeorgiaTech335Coupe , sorry to hear you're having issues with your car after having put in so much into it. I will tell you right now, you'll just end up getting very frustrated trying to resolve the issue with further hardware replacement. I've even opened up my motor in hopes of finding "something" that will prove to be the cause. I hoped for a head gasket, a burnt valve, weak spring, all sorts of things just to be finally able to put my finger on what it is. I've played with gaps on the plugs, NGK coils, injector replacement. In other words, I strongly recommend you don't go down the same path. Many seem to have this issue which ends up getting unresolved and they end up never mentioning a thing on the forums which doesn't shed enough light on this issue.

    My issue started with putting in RB turbos. I did have Procede on the car at the time. However, hotrod has also had the same issue reported and he never ran anything but the JB. I tried all the major tunes after it started to misfire as well and the issue was still there with everything 100% functionally working.

    My best advice to you as I want to see you enjoy your car, get good numbers out of it and not end up regretting going for more power is to just turn off misfire detection. I am well aware of what this entails and that its not a solution but a workaround but trust me, you will start regretting your decision to go with a single turbo only to be troubleshooting and dumping money into it to solve this issue when it may very well end up being something that the stock DME wasn't built to handle properly. If Shiv's flash can't turn off misfire detection just get an AP, ask him to move the settings over and be done with it.

    People need to realize and understand what misfire detection is about and what a "misfire" represents and most importantly WHY has BMW decided to shut down fuel injection entirely as a result of misfires. The reason is environmental/emissions. An incomplete burn will pollute the environment and to conform to regulations they must do this. This wasn't the case in the past with cars as they'd just let you feel the actual misfires and in most cases they'd give you a check engine light only, not cut fuel to the cylinders or in this case to the entire bank.

    Obviously since this issue is quite new to you you'll be eager to solve it the "right" way but I strongly advise you not to go down that road, turn off misfire detection, put the car on the dyno and see if there are power issues in that misfire prone rev range and if there are none I wouldn't worry about it at all until more is known. See how the car "feels" with the detection off.

    If I had to guess the issue is to do with misfire detection algorithms and we don't have access to those just yet to be able to adjust or begin to understand the reasons why. It may be just too sensitive given what's happening with the motor at higher power levels and dumping time/parts at it can be deemed a waste at this point as I have very little doubt its anything hardware related.

    Having said all that, I do have to say that its ironic it came back to bite Shiv again. He went to such lengths in undermining all my efforts with the N54 after I left the procede camp to even mock me because of the car misfiring in the same way you, Big Tom, hotrod, and a bunch of others did. He even brainwashed sikh335 into mocking the same way only to have this issue come back on his ST cars. I recall Former_Boosted_IS's car also misfiring on the dyno but they were fixed with NGK plugs gapped at 0.022" apparently. I've learned not to trust anything coming from Vishnu and really do appreciate your openness on the subject sir. Anything you may need, any questions let me know. I'll be glad to help as much as I can.

    Again, just turn that misfire detection off, you'll be glad you did.
    So what, ultimately the solution to the misfire woes at least in your case is just to turn the detection off?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    So what, ultimately the solution to the misfire woes at least in your case is just to turn the detection off?
    You clearly missed the part where I said its not a solution but a workaround and explained its temporary until we know what it is. I feel it is not hardware, that there is no actual misfire and it is programming related as the car shows no issues once it is turned off both on/off dyno as evidenced even in my recent 553whp/631wtq dyno runs. I was looking at them at zero smoothing to make sure there was no sudden dips or anything looking remotely off up there.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    You clearly missed the part where I said its not a solution but a workaround and explained its temporary until we know what it is. I feel it is not hardware, there is no actual misfire and it is programming related as the car shows no issues once it is turned off on/off dyno as evidenced even in my recent 553whp/631wtq dyno runs. I was looking at them at zero smoothing to make sure there was no sudden dips or anything looking remotely off up there.
    Opinons on will these misfires continue with larger twins as well? On all tuning platforms?
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by BuraQ Click here to enlarge
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    Yup, I dont have to feel jealous anymore when seeing a GTR.... LOL.... and spend less to do what they do and still enjoy BMW quality
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
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    Opinons on will these misfires continue with larger twins as well? On all tuning platforms?
    I'd say yes.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    You clearly missed the part where I said its not a solution but a workaround and explained its temporary until we know what it is. I feel it is not hardware, that there is no actual misfire and it is programming related as the car shows no issues once it is turned off both on/off dyno as evidenced even in my recent 553whp/631wtq dyno runs. I was looking at them at zero smoothing to make sure there was no sudden dips or anything looking remotely off up there.
    I wasn't criticizing you I was saying your solution was to disable misfire detection right?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    I wasn't criticizing you I was saying your solution was to disable misfire detection right?
    Just a workaround until we have enough visibility into the DME's inner workings behind misfire detection and what it entails instead of dumping more parts and wasting time on it. Its becoming very clear that this issue is not hardware related. On top of that is already VERY clear the car will not have a serious issue with misfire detection disabled. If anyone would've had it I would have already.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    The guy's having tuning/hardware issues, been there, done that. I've run 12.1@122.5 on RB turbos, does this mean I'm faster than he is? In the quarter mile maybe, but from a roll, I don't stand a chance.
    Eh, you might be surprised. As it stands now the autos are really not much faster than a properly tuned RB car. Maybe when they can rev higher they will shine a bit more.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
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    Eh, you might be surprised. As it stands now the autos are really not much faster than a properly tuned RB car. Maybe when they can rev higher they will shine a bit more.
    RB (550whp) vs ST-AT (580whp) good point. Also you have to remember the difference on how the different turbo's react.
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    I seriously believe that the misfire issues are caused by something in the Procede inner workings. Other than a few outliers, the common denominator is that those who have phantom misfires all ran the Procede extensively.

    Haven't ever heard of a long-time Cobb user ever having these phantom misfires.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
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    RB (550whp) vs ST-AT (580whp) good point. Also you have to remember the difference on how the different turbo's react.
    Just to clarify and to set expectations accordingly, 550whp is not a realistic reliable number for any RB car out there at least not at the moment. Those dynos from my car that were posted were all-out and were not done with a stock cylinder head or with high reliability in mind from the turbos point of view. Power curves are also VERY different. My dynos were there to push the setup to its limits and see what it might do at levels never tested before along with cylinder head testing.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    I seriously believe that the misfire issues are caused by something in the Procede inner workings. Other than a few outliers, the common denominator is that those who have phantom misfires all ran the Procede extensively.

    Haven't ever heard of a long-time Cobb user ever having these phantom misfires.
    hotrod had the same issue on the JB. Its not procede, or jb and given enough time I'd put my money on it that a car that's never seen a piggyback would also exhibit the same problem.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Just to clarify and to set expectations accordingly, 550whp is not a realistic reliable number for any RB car out there at least not at the moment. Those dynos from my car that were posted were all-out and were not done with a stock cylinder head or with high reliability in mind from the turbos point of view. Power curves are also VERY different. My dynos were there to push the setup to its limits and see what it might do at levels never tested before along with cylinder head testing.
    580whp isn't a reliable number for the ST; what's your point?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by E90SoFlo Click here to enlarge
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    RB (550whp) vs ST-AT (580whp) good point. Also you have to remember the difference on how the different turbo's react.
    No I'm talking just RBs @ 500-520rw vs. ST-AT @ 570-580rw. I saw it first hand during the runway races when comparing various races. The extra 50rw up to is nerfed by the 50rw-100rw less down low. Net result is it's not much faster if at all.
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    Just a workaround until we have enough visibility into the DME's inner workings behind misfire detection and what it entails instead of dumping more parts and wasting time on it. Its becoming very clear that this issue is not hardware related. On top of that is already VERY clear the car will not have a serious issue with misfire detection disabled. If anyone would've had it I would have already.
    So the answer is yes, thanks.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
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    hotrod had the same issue on the JB. Its not procede, or jb and given enough time I'd put my money on it that a car that's never seen a piggyback would also exhibit the same problem.
    Care to provide any examples of a cobb only user exhibiting this issue? My current car I have never ran the procede extensively, mostly cobb with some jb4 stacking.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
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    580whp isn't a reliable number for the ST; what's your point?
    Read again. I made a reference to the comment on the 550whp out of an RB car.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
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    So the answer is yes, thanks.
    Answer was no as I disagree its a solution. Its a workaround. In my world those two are very different.
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