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  1. #851
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    right, as i said, driver and excuses. not claiming to be the best as ive never owned a MT, and the one my brother picked up is awd, so i cant go out and "show" people how easy it is.. BUT, then again, you have EVERY OTHER CAR EVER DRAG RACED to show that 6MT is not an excuse, just because its claimed to be..

    hell, iirc, corvette MT's are notoriously hard to shift, and yet.. they boogie in the 1/4 mile.

    like i said, irrelevent if most FBO stock turbo MT cars can cut mid 11's with 400-440 hp, and a ST with 200-250 MORE hp can power down into the 10's.. i would be pissed..but hey, who am I to judge with, unless im mistaken, 2, maybe even 3 records. (TT N54 1/4 mi, non intercooled M3 1/4 mi, and N/A M3 60-130)
    I agree in general in other platforms that MT well driven could be as fast, but looking at the N54 records at dragtimes.com either BMW drivers don't know how to drive, or N54 MT shifting has some bogs and lags compared to AT. What is the best ET for a 6MT car, if you ignore Shiv's car?

  2. #852
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    If your shoes stick it's a damn well prepped track. If they don't... well, it's a $#@!ty prepped track.
    Yup. When I cut those mid 1.6s at atco, it felt like the pavement wanted to eat my shoes with every step I took to get my slips...
    Click here to enlarge

  3. #853
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    I agree in general in other platforms that MT well driven could be as fast, but looking at the N54 records at dragtimes.com either BMW drivers don't know how to drive, or N54 MT shifting has some bogs and lags compared to AT. What is the best ET for a 6MT car, if you ignore Shiv's car?

    im not gonna search right right now, and dont know the past 2 years worth of data. BUT, I think a "decent" generalization is that most of the bmw crowd currently cant shift as well as they think they can, given the crowd/age/purpose/experience ..** general statement-take no offense, unless you fall into the category-and if you are offended, prove me wrong Click here to enlarge

  4. #854
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    10's yet or continuous BS?
    2007 335i (100% stock with mods)

    N54 is not a German 2JZ lol

  5. #855
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    Yup. When I cut those mid 1.6s at atco, it felt like the pavement wanted to eat my shoes with every step I took to get my slips...
    sounds like i'm coming down to Atco soon Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

  6. #856
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    im not gonna search right right now, and dont know the past 2 years worth of data. BUT, I think a "decent" generalization is that most of the bmw crowd currently cant shift as well as they think they can, given the crowd/age/purpose/experience ..** general statement-take no offense, unless you fall into the category-and if you are offended, prove me wrong Click here to enlarge
    I agree but I believe there is more into it. Among 20 best times in dragtimes, only Shiv and Dzenno have MTs. Shiv has much more power than anyone else plus a high end suspension. Dzenno has RBs, full bolt-ons, race gas, meth...and still loses to the best stock turbo ATs. Third MT is Mr.5 in position 26...

    I believe keeping the boost up in the shifts is still the problem for MTs compared to the ATs that could be worth a couple of tenths and the lack of skill could be worth another couple of tenths in the results in general. This is just a guess and someone should go through the logs and VBOX data of comparative AT and (well driven) MT cars to know for sure if a very skilled driver would still suffer from some disadvantage of the MT transmission.

  7. #857
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    The MTs are in a good position to dominate MPH and 60-130 times, but in terms of ET, so far have not been impressive. For example at the same track with similar quality drivers Shiv's customers AT car went 11.3 OEM turbos with 440whp. Shiv went 10.8 single turbo with 200whp+, more suspension, etc. Only a half second difference.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  8. #858
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    I agree but I believe there is more into it. Among 20 best times in dragtimes, only Shiv and Dzenno have MTs. Shiv has much more power than anyone else plus a high end suspension. Dzenno has RBs, full bolt-ons, race gas, meth...and still loses to the best stock turbo ATs. Third MT is Mr.5 in position 26...

    I believe keeping the boost up in the shifts is still the problem for MTs compared to the ATs that could be worth a couple of tenths and the lack of skill could be worth another couple of tenths in the results in general. This is just a guess and someone should go through the logs and VBOX data of comparative AT and (well driven) MT cars to know for sure if a very skilled driver would still suffer from some disadvantage of the MT transmission.
    I agree keeping boost on MT is not so easy. I've riden with MT drivers before and them thinking they nailed a shift, but clearly did not. I think some need to feel a proper shift to understand what they are missing.

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    Feeling a proper shift is xxxy for sure but I bet not so much at 15psi Josh Click here to enlarge
    Click here to enlarge

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    After installing my WOTBox i can tell you that keeping boost between shifts is $#@!ing amazing. Throws you back into the seat. If only i had some AT 335i/135i around to race, but its lonely in Jacksonville lol. I might have to snag some vids of me racing my buddies 535, but thats not exactly a fair matchup.
    2011 E90 M3 \ Melbourne Rot Metallic

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    Put it this way, I have never officially drag raced anything BUT a manual transmission car, and the bmw manual tranmission flat out sucks. I was still able to crack low 12s and over 120 traps on stop turbos, however the shifting never felt right when pushed to its max. Over the course of 3 years I got some what use to it, untill I got my mustang and realized that I can slam the $#@! out of the shifter and chirp the 3-4 shift at over 100 mph in a bone stock car. I believe one of my first posts when my bmw was bone stock was how to fully turn off traction control (even though it was) becuase I was bogging a bone stock car from shifting to fast.

    As for launching a mt, theres alot more to getting a mt car downt he track then just launching, more then half the time I blow the tires on a good hard 1-2 shift instead of the initial hit....

  12. #862
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    Put it this way, I have never officially drag raced anything BUT a manual transmission car, and the bmw manual tranmission flat out sucks. I was still able to crack low 12s and over 120 traps on stop turbos, however the shifting never felt right when pushed to its max. Over the course of 3 years I got some what use to it, untill I got my mustang and realized that I can slam the $#@! out of the shifter and chirp the 3-4 shift at over 100 mph in a bone stock car. I believe one of my first posts when my bmw was bone stock was how to fully turn off traction control (even though it was) becuase I was bogging a bone stock car from shifting to fast.

    As for launching a mt, theres alot more to getting a mt car downt he track then just launching, more then half the time I blow the tires on a good hard 1-2 shift instead of the initial hit....
    haha laloosh got a mustang.

    You will fit in good with mustang owners Click here to enlarge




  13. #863
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Laloosh Click here to enlarge
    I was bogging a bone stock car from shifting to fast.
    Can you explain how this happens?

  14. #864
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Torgus Click here to enlarge
    Can you explain how this happens?
    The cars programming cuts throttle when boost is higher then expected during shifts or when load clips are exceeded.

  15. #865
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    Launching with stock twins is extremely easy when compared to a larger single turbo. There are TONS of variables to consider though.. Powerband, suspension, tires, transmission, launch control, track prep, etc.. The stock twins will pull nice 60 ft's without requiring anything special. For a larger single turbo you need a lot more work to properly get the car off the line. Once setup properly and on a well prepped track, the setup will start to shine and pull better 60ft's than the twins. If not done just right though the car will bog big time and you will be looking at poorer results.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by TerryBMS Click here to enlarge
    The MTs are in a good position to dominate MPH and 60-130 times, but in terms of ET, so far have not been impressive. For example at the same track with similar quality drivers Shiv's customers AT car went 11.3 OEM turbos with 440whp. Shiv went 10.8 single turbo with 200whp+, more suspension, etc. Only a half second difference.
    That's also with an extra shift. Which is worth at least 0.3-0.4s in itself. 6mt cars don't have be luxury of launching in 2nd gear. So you can take your half second and bump it up to 0.8-0.9. If that is minor, then we are not on the same page Click here to enlarge

  17. #867
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    That's also with an extra shift. Which is worth at least 0.3-0.4s in itself. 6mt cars don't have be luxury of launching in 2nd gear. So you can take your half second and bump it up to 0.8-0.9. If that is minor, then we are not on the same page Click here to enlarge
    lol, 2nd gear launches are good for what, 1.7's? that is a standard "decent" 60'. If i had done a 1st gear and sub 30psi tire that day, youd still be chasing my times. please dont offer excuses. for $#@!s sake, just bring the car out here to jersey for the ER roll on and a private atco rental that you and i can set up for the same weekend. ill be polite, im just tired of your excuses..

  18. #868
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    MTs on street tires really benefit from AWD and 2-step/WOTbox. I haven't seen people getting serious with that combo yet.

  19. #869
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    That's also with an extra shift. Which is worth at least 0.3-0.4s in itself. 6mt cars don't have be luxury of launching in 2nd gear. So you can take your half second and bump it up to 0.8-0.9. If that is minor, then we are not on the same page Click here to enlarge
    It must really suck to only have an extra 200whp to cover a shift. What's next - the dog ate your clutch pedal stop?
    Kevin
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    That's also with an extra shift. Which is worth at least 0.3-0.4s in itself. 6mt cars don't have be luxury of launching in 2nd gear. So you can take your half second and bump it up to 0.8-0.9. If that is minor, then we are not on the same page Click here to enlarge
    lol why would you loose .4s doing a shift? The car doesn't stop moving when you go to shift.
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 12-28-2012 at 08:38 PM.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  21. #871
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    findings:

    shiv@vishnu
    doesnt know much about the"laws of physics"


    but he seems to be quite good in math (only counting so far)

    sit down pls ^^

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu Click here to enlarge
    That's also with an extra shift. Which is worth at least 0.3-0.4s in itself. 6mt cars don't have be luxury of launching in 2nd gear. So you can take your half second and bump it up to 0.8-0.9. If that is minor, then we are not on the same page Click here to enlarge
    Maybe you were granny shifting, not double clutching like you should? Click here to enlarge

  23. #873
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rudypoochris Click here to enlarge
    Maybe you were granny shifting, not double clutching like you should? Click here to enlarge
    Also might need two of the big bottles.

  24. #874
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    He didnt have enough cow bell..

  25. #875
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    lol why would you loose .4s doing a shift? The car doesn't stop moving when you go to shift.
    You don't lose .4s but you are at a 0.3sec disadvantage compared to a 6AT car that doesn't unload through shifts
    Click here to enlarge

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