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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Some guys, not you specifically, have their heads way too far up their N54's ass.
    Bro. N54 4 lyfe.

    Also my exhaust smells like rainbows and butterflies. You don't even know.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Why shouldn't it be a separate charge per map? Cobb doesn't vin lock? In the Subaru world it did.
    It didn't. The Cobb AP worked the same way in the Subaru world as it does for the N54. When you install it the unit is married to the car but you can unmarry it at any time and use it on another car. There was and is no VIN lock.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by JC335xi Click here to enlarge
    It didn't. The Cobb AP worked the same way in the Subaru world as it does for the N54. When you install it the unit is married to the car but you can unmarry it at any time and use it on another car. There was and is no VIN lock.
    The Fact that COBB is married to the car is proof that it is VIN locked. The VIN is the identifying # that ensures the COBB stays put with one car. It stores the VIN or unique identifiable code in memory until you flash back to stock.


    VIN Locked or Married both achieve the same results.
    Last edited by NJrep335i; 12-07-2012 at 11:36 AM.

  4. #54
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJrep335i Click here to enlarge
    The Fact that COBB is married to the car is proof that it is VIN locked. The VIN is the identifying # that ensures the COBB stays put with one car. It stores the VIN or unique identifiable code in memory until you flash back to stock.


    VIN Locked or Married both achieve the same results.
    Once the cobb unit is uninstalled, it can be installed in any other car without hassle.

    A procede that vin locks to a car must be sent back to the manufacturer so that it can be unlocked for an extra fee.

    Which sounds more convenient?

    Your welcome.

  5. #55
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    12.6@113mph is spot on what I would expect for N54 with FBO + AA Upgraded compressor turbos + AA tune

  6. #56
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    Once the cobb unit is uninstalled, it can be installed in any other car without hassle.

    A procede that vin locks to a car must be sent back to the manufacturer so that it can be unlocked for an extra fee.

    Which sounds more convenient?

    Your welcome.

    Not sure when we brought the Procede into this conversation. They are two completely different approaches. You can't run the Procede on multiple cars at the same time. Shiv VIN locked his for revenue and If i'm not mistaken it no longer requires a VIN.

    Cobb's method is to keep someone from buying the AP and hooking it to all of there friends and there friends and so on. It's the only way they can keep people honest and I can't agree more.

    Anyway off topic.


    Active,
    When can we expect to see more updates and dyno's?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJrep335i Click here to enlarge
    Not sure when we brought the Procede into this conversation. They are two completely different approaches. You can't run the Procede on multiple cars at the same time. Shiv VIN locked his for revenue and If i'm not mistaken it no longer requires a VIN.

    Cobb's method is to keep someone from buying the AP and hooking it to all of there friends and there friends and so on. It's the only way they can keep people honest and I can't agree more.

    Anyway off topic.


    Active,
    When can we expect to see more updates and dyno's?
    I'm just bringing in an example that sounds like AA's approach with the Simon tool. If you want to unlock it to use in another vehicle, you have to send the unit back to the manufacturer for it to be unlocked.

    With Cobb, you just unmarry it on the spot and you are good to go. I actually agree with Cobb's philosophy as well, but its pretty evident which is more convenient when it comes to 'unlocking' it for another vehicle.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    12.6@113mph is spot on what I would expect for N54 with FBO + AA Upgraded compressor turbos + AA tune
    Odd since we ran a 12.4 at 115 with a downpipe and tune only the first time the driver went to the track.

    The dynos from these test units reflect almost the same exact curve as the rb turbo car as well as an asr turbo car we had on our dyno. The times can contributed to lack of traction and a inexperienced driver.

  9. #59
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    Odd since we ran a 12.4 at 115 with a downpipe and tune only the first time the driver went to the track.

    The dynos from these test units reflect almost the same exact curve as the rb turbo car as well as an asr turbo car we had on our dyno.
    Post those dynos up then.

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    1 out of 5 members liked this post. Yes Reputation No
    They are not public sorry.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    They are not public sorry.
    not sure how you expect to sell a product without publicly posting dynos. LOL
    2011 335is DCT, JB4 + MHD BEF, stage 2 LPFP, e50 + 50/50 meth, FBO, MT ET Streets when needed


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    We do not have any plans of selling them at this time and I made that very clear in my first post. We made them for a customer which is now an employee.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by bigdnno98 Click here to enlarge
    not sure how you expect to sell a product without publicly posting dynos. LOL

    You sold the 335?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    We do not have any plans of selling them at this time and I made that very clear in my first post. We made them for a customer which is now an employee.
    Thanks for clearing that up.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by 654 Click here to enlarge
    Thanks for clearing that up.
    Not a problem. If a product is going public you can be sure I will let you guys know and back it up with dyno's and data like I always have.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 Click here to enlarge
    I'm just bringing in an example that sounds like AA's approach with the Simon tool. If you want to unlock it to use in another vehicle, you have to send the unit back to the manufacturer for it to be unlocked.

    With Cobb, you just unmarry it on the spot and you are good to go. I actually agree with Cobb's philosophy as well, but its pretty evident which is more convenient when it comes to 'unlocking' it for another vehicle.

    I must of missed where the simon tool needed to be sent back to be unlocked. Indeed the Cobb is much easier in that area, not sure I agree with having to pay to unlock so I can resale something I own.

  17. #67
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJrep335i Click here to enlarge
    I must of missed where the simon tool needed to be sent back to be unlocked. Indeed the Cobb is much easier in that area, not sure I agree with having to pay to unlock so I can resale something I own.
    It doesn't have to be sent back you just need to send us the serial number. You will then receive an unlock file

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by LostMarine Click here to enlarge
    Im speaking from personal experience with all bmw's running AA stuff, not just e9x's.

    we could argue dyno #'s all day bra Click here to enlarge
    As am I, brah, on all counts Click here to enlarge. I'll get the e9x stuff out of the way first...Frankly, I've never really paid any attention to what AA does on the N54, as the products simply haven't stood out as exceptional. Sure, the downpipes aren't bad, but they aren't AR, and there are options that are equal but less $, so I haven't really found them relevant. As for the S65 S/Cs, the hardware and strip #s have always looked nice to me, I certainly can't fault them in that arena, however, they were a day late and dollar short, and the numbers/hardware quality out of the likes of VF, ESS, Evolve, etc for comparable setups are competitive enough that the voting comes down to things that are secondary to performance #s...in many cases, one's wallet will make the biggest difference. You voted with your wallet...and AA didn't get your vote. And just like AA, I can remember problems that each of the aforementioned makers (Evolve not so much, however) have had on different platforms, during different periods of time.

    I am referencing AA of the early-mid 2000s, in the S50/52 days, back when they were doing something that was admittedly far more challenging than slapping a centrifugal S/C onto an N/A car, for which I will always give them credit. I remember a time when AA showed pictures of beautifully fabricated ICs and mandrel bent, powdercoated IC piping in their E36 M3 kits, and had a PR snafu on their hands when many owners found that had shipped cars to AA for their turbo install had crudely crush bent tubes that had literally been whaled on repeatedly with a hammer, to the point that diameter shrunk to nearly 1" at a number of points, looking like a tattered mess that a Somalian mechanic would be ashamed of. And it's no wonder that these same cars had issues running properly. Speaking of running properly, I remember a time when it was simply a question of time as to when the head would lift on the higher level kit (stage 2+/3) AA turbo cars. Never mind the fact that this would happen regardless of whether or not the car was OBD-II or I, Karl somehow convinced people that this problem would be fixed on OBD-II cars by swapping to OBD-I (at great expense), killing the car's emissions compliance, only to have the head lift...again. And when these people confronted Karl about it, armed with the advice of seasoned tuners who suggested that the issue may be caused by a timing curve that was eerily stocklike and far too aggressive for the application, he would threaten to not help them at all with the situation if anyone went public, and would instead blame the driving habits of the end user, installer error, or some other bogus claim that would point blame away from his tuning or hardware; since AA was the only one tuning turbo cars at that time, nobody had much of an alternative except to play Karl's game. It's why guys like Omar with his AA built GT40R'd M coupe had a car that sat for years and years, and never ran beyond an ill fated maiden voyage, leaving him no option but to sell it years later at a ridiculously painful loss. And by the time other tuning/hardware options started showing up, AA had already focused their attention elsewhere, namely the S/C kits, primarily for the e46 M3, which would certainly give them less grief than the turbo stuff. And let us not forget the time when they attempted to dive back into turbocharging, this time on the E46 M3, with Vik Taza's car, whom they charged somewhere in the neighborhood of 100k for the privilege of a "big power turbo M3" that never ran right and blew up pretty fast. Regardless of my opinion about Taza, it's still a pretty $#@!ty situation. There was also the issue of the AA exhausts which were advertised as built entirely in the US, with the owners being rightfully pissed after AA was exposed as having the exhausts made in China at nearly 1/10th the cost of MSRP...they learned their lesson on that one. And there was that more recent blowup over the guy who had REALLY been tuning their cars who claimed that AA hired him in house to get the tuning right on their hardware kits, made him all sorts of promises, only to steal his IP and fire him immediately after that. Not going to say much more about that, simply because I believe that getting the truth on either side in a situation like that is rather difficult. There are more instances of unscrupulous behavior which I can cite, but I think the point has been made.

    Which brings us to the present day, where AA pushes exhaust/intake components made overseas which they make a minimum 5x profit on, SC kits that likely aren't far behind, tunes they make god knows how much on, and pushing wheels (ADV.1) made by a known thief (360 Forged). And by Andrew's admission, these are the hallmarks of a company which doesn't cater to (more involved) gearheads. Frankly, that's totally fine by me, and a business decision that is completely understandable given the brand equity they have. It's why a friend of mine purchased their downpipes and tune...the brand equity. With that kind of brand equity (at least in the short term), one doesn't have a huge incentive to push the boundaries very far, because one simply makes a whole lot more money doing it the way AA does it now vs. before. Do they necessarily cater to all of us? No, but frankly, they were smart enough to realize that catering to the hardcore gearheads is something that costs a lot more, with an ROI that isn't as appetizing as the low hanging fruit of the set it and forget it types. But if you ask me, repackaging other's stuff, and making hardware kits is no reason to hold AA in any kind of higher regard, and it's not one that helps sustain the brand equity they built during their turbo days. AA's invitation to customers to "Come Play With Power" had much more of a calling and relevance 10 years ago, when they catered to those who truly wished to push their cars to the bleeding edge. And with BMW moving full steam ahead toward a lineup that is completely FI, I think they are going to have to seriously rethink their business strategy if they wish to retain that brand equity, let alone remain relevant in the tuning world. And if one believes that they have spent 30 years providing the type of gear that they provide now (set it and forget it, but hardly at the bleeding edge or front of the pack), or that they really are pushing the envelope with their own software, one would be sorely mistaken.

    Cliffs: AA isn't bad these days, but they don't have the sterling reputation over time that everyone seems to think they do.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Nobody is perfect but calling them lazy Dinan wannabes is idiotic.

    Dinan doesn't even have forced induction options for the S65. AA has how many? AA also is not just strapping on a vortech blower and calling it a day they have several different options producing different looking curves.

    Dinan wannabe's?

    Look at this curve:

    http://www.germanboost.com/attachmen...9&d=1353448889

    When you seem something else tuned THAT well let me know. Pay attention to the 0 smoothing as well.

    Saying Cobb has accomplished more when they are doing different things in a different market makes no sense. Cobb isn't providing hardware like Active is, you are comparing apples and oranges.

    Your world seems to be N54 centered and you are applying vast generalizations based on it. Expand your thinking a bit and maybe your knowledge will expand with it. Very narrow and incorrect view applied in your post.. which is nowhere near as pretty as AA's tuning.
    Your remarkable stubbornness and inability to listen is nearly as amusing as your stupidity. See above. If you love that graph so much, go send your car to them. And using HKS/Rotrex centri blowers instead of Vortechs is not innovative, deluding oneself otherwise would be the fever dreams of a narrow minded fanboy. Get back to me when AA puts out a TS S65 that works. In less than 10 years, Cobb has managed to take on the single hardest aspect of performance modification (tuning, specifically through a stock ECU), and has managed to do so across completely unrelated platforms, whose only thing in common was the extreme complexity and difficulty involved in cracking them. Hardware is the easy part. If the tuning aspect were as easy as the hardware part, there would be TS and turbo S65s and turbo C63s running around everywhere tuned on the stock DME, it wouldn't have taken almost 12 years since the E46 M3's introduction to get a DME tuned E46 M3 turbo kit, your car wouldn't have sat around for as long as it has, etc.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So what? When others say idiotic things about a company as a whole basing it on a single market it's rather absurd.
    Lol, I love how you tout yourself and this place as unbiased...
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So you agree they are lazy Dinan wannabe's when they are testing turbo upgrades and doing things Dinan is not? Ya, your statement makes just as much sense as defactom6's.
    Your denseness is truly remarkable.
    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    So tuning is static? BMS stopped at the JB3?

    They don't target the N54 aggressively. They make more on a supercharger sale for the M3 likely than Terry does with 30 JB4's.

    It's different markets and approaches. Just because a tuner doesn't have the best offering for the N54 doesn't mean they are bad. UGR doesn't tackle the N54 last I checked, guess what, they are still top notch.
    Agreed.

    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Sticky Click here to enlarge
    Some guys, not you specifically, have their heads way too far up their N54's ass.
    And others have their head so far up the S65's ass that they wear themselves as a hat.
    Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    It doesn't have to be sent back you just need to send us the serial number. You will then receive an unlock file
    Do you have to pay to Unlock?

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJrep335i Click here to enlarge
    Do you have to pay to Unlock?
    Yes the company that makes the tool charges us and we charge the same fee. You do not have to purchase this tool. You can send us your ecu or stop by one of the many flash station shops around the globe.

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Andrew@activeautowerke Click here to enlarge
    We do not have any plans of selling them at this time and I made that very clear in my first post. We made them for a customer which is now an employee.
    Yet another reason why I don't do business with Active, being local. I called because my car wasn't boosting, and the first thing someone mentioned was "hey, we have these turbos in development, that are comparable to so and so, come by to talk about pricing". And now you say you have no plans to sell?

    Really?
    || DCT | ESS Tune | ACM Test-pipes | AA Green Filter | Swift Spec-R Springs | Stoptech ST-40 F || || My Youtube Channel|| My Vimeo Channel ||

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    Fun thread.

    In Sticky's defense, I'm pretty sure he's never claimed to be unbiased, personally. I think it actually says somewhere on the form you agree to when joining this site that he's biased for the M3 and you must accept is injection of M3 comparisons to the M3 in any and all threads.

    However, Sticky has always claimed that this forum is a forum that promotes open dialogue, within reasonable bounds, that are policed by fellow members.

    Pretty much you can say whatever you want here and Sticky won't stop you, but other people with rep points might. Am I right @Turkeybaster115? lol =P
    2010 e92 M3 Jet Black | DCT | ESS Tuned | Akrapovic Slip-on | Challenge X-pipe | AFE Intake | 18" Volk TE37SL | KW V3 Coilovers | RPI Scoops | Under Drive Pulley

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by DefactoM6 Click here to enlarge
    As am I, brah, on all counts Click here to enlarge. I'll get the e9x stuff out of the way first...Frankly, I've never really paid any attention to what AA does on the N54, as the products simply haven't stood out as exceptional. Sure, the downpipes aren't bad, but they aren't AR, and there are options that are equal but less $, so I haven't really found them relevant. As for the S65 S/Cs, the hardware and strip #s have always looked nice to me, I certainly can't fault them in that arena, however, they were a day late and dollar short, and the numbers/hardware quality out of the likes of VF, ESS, Evolve, etc for comparable setups are competitive enough that the voting comes down to things that are secondary to performance #s...in many cases, one's wallet will make the biggest difference. You voted with your wallet...and AA didn't get your vote. And just like AA, I can remember problems that each of the aforementioned makers (Evolve not so much, however) have had on different platforms, during different periods of time.

    I am referencing AA of the early-mid 2000s, in the S50/52 days, back when they were doing something that was admittedly far more challenging than slapping a centrifugal S/C onto an N/A car, for which I will always give them credit. I remember a time when AA showed pictures of beautifully fabricated ICs and mandrel bent, powdercoated IC piping in their E36 M3 kits, and had a PR snafu on their hands when many owners found that had shipped cars to AA for their turbo install had crudely crush bent tubes that had literally been whaled on repeatedly with a hammer, to the point that diameter shrunk to nearly 1" at a number of points, looking like a tattered mess that a Somalian mechanic would be ashamed of. And it's no wonder that these same cars had issues running properly. Speaking of running properly, I remember a time when it was simply a question of time as to when the head would lift on the higher level kit (stage 2+/3) AA turbo cars. Never mind the fact that this would happen regardless of whether or not the car was OBD-II or I, Karl somehow convinced people that this problem would be fixed on OBD-II cars by swapping to OBD-I (at great expense), killing the car's emissions compliance, only to have the head lift...again. And when these people confronted Karl about it, armed with the advice of seasoned tuners who suggested that the issue may be caused by a timing curve that was eerily stocklike and far too aggressive for the application, he would threaten to not help them at all with the situation if anyone went public, and would instead blame the driving habits of the end user, installer error, or some other bogus claim that would point blame away from his tuning or hardware; since AA was the only one tuning turbo cars at that time, nobody had much of an alternative except to play Karl's game. It's why guys like Omar with his AA built GT40R'd M coupe had a car that sat for years and years, and never ran beyond an ill fated maiden voyage, leaving him no option but to sell it years later at a ridiculously painful loss. And by the time other tuning/hardware options started showing up, AA had already focused their attention elsewhere, namely the S/C kits, primarily for the e46 M3, which would certainly give them less grief than the turbo stuff. And let us not forget the time when they attempted to dive back into turbocharging, this time on the E46 M3, with Vik Taza's car, whom they charged somewhere in the neighborhood of 100k for the privilege of a "big power turbo M3" that never ran right and blew up pretty fast. Regardless of my opinion about Taza, it's still a pretty $#@!ty situation. There was also the issue of the AA exhausts which were advertised as built entirely in the US, with the owners being rightfully pissed after AA was exposed as having the exhausts made in China at nearly 1/10th the cost of MSRP...they learned their lesson on that one. And there was that more recent blowup over the guy who had REALLY been tuning their cars who claimed that AA hired him in house to get the tuning right on their hardware kits, made him all sorts of promises, only to steal his IP and fire him immediately after that. Not going to say much more about that, simply because I believe that getting the truth on either side in a situation like that is rather difficult. There are more instances of unscrupulous behavior which I can cite, but I think the point has been made.

    Which brings us to the present day, where AA pushes exhaust/intake components made overseas which they make a minimum 5x profit on, SC kits that likely aren't far behind, tunes they make god knows how much on, and pushing wheels (ADV.1) made by a known thief (360 Forged). And by Andrew's admission, these are the hallmarks of a company which doesn't cater to (more involved) gearheads. Frankly, that's totally fine by me, and a business decision that is completely understandable given the brand equity they have. It's why a friend of mine purchased their downpipes and tune...the brand equity. With that kind of brand equity (at least in the short term), one doesn't have a huge incentive to push the boundaries very far, because one simply makes a whole lot more money doing it the way AA does it now vs. before. Do they necessarily cater to all of us? No, but frankly, they were smart enough to realize that catering to the hardcore gearheads is something that costs a lot more, with an ROI that isn't as appetizing as the low hanging fruit of the set it and forget it types. But if you ask me, repackaging other's stuff, and making hardware kits is no reason to hold AA in any kind of higher regard, and it's not one that helps sustain the brand equity they built during their turbo days. AA's invitation to customers to "Come Play With Power" had much more of a calling and relevance 10 years ago, when they catered to those who truly wished to push their cars to the bleeding edge. And with BMW moving full steam ahead toward a lineup that is completely FI, I think they are going to have to seriously rethink their business strategy if they wish to retain that brand equity, let alone remain relevant in the tuning world. And if one believes that they have spent 30 years providing the type of gear that they provide now (set it and forget it, but hardly at the bleeding edge or front of the pack), or that they really are pushing the envelope with their own software, one would be sorely mistaken.

    Cliffs: AA isn't bad these days, but they don't have the sterling reputation over time that everyone seems to think they do.


    Your remarkable stubbornness and inability to listen is nearly as amusing as your stupidity. See above. If you love that graph so much, go send your car to them. And using HKS/Rotrex centri blowers instead of Vortechs is not innovative, deluding oneself otherwise would be the fever dreams of a narrow minded fanboy. Get back to me when AA puts out a TS S65 that works. In less than 10 years, Cobb has managed to take on the single hardest aspect of performance modification (tuning, specifically through a stock ECU), and has managed to do so across completely unrelated platforms, whose only thing in common was the extreme complexity and difficulty involved in cracking them. Hardware is the easy part. If the tuning aspect were as easy as the hardware part, there would be TS and turbo S65s and turbo C63s running around everywhere tuned on the stock DME, it wouldn't have taken almost 12 years since the E46 M3's introduction to get a DME tuned E46 M3 turbo kit, your car wouldn't have sat around for as long as it has, etc.


    Lol, I love how you tout yourself and this place as unbiased...

    Your denseness is truly remarkable.

    Agreed.


    And others have their head so far up the S65's ass that they wear themselves as a hat.
    Damn it, I need to spread rep to rep you again lol.

  24. #74
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by NJrep335i Click here to enlarge
    Do you have to pay to Unlock?
    So I was off by a little, but you still have to pay to unlock it. Cobb FTW! Click here to enlarge

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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by yandyr Click here to enlarge
    Yet another reason why I don't do business with Active, being local. I called because my car wasn't boosting, and the first thing someone mentioned was "hey, we have these turbos in development, that are comparable to so and so, come by to talk about pricing". And now you say you have no plans to sell?

    Really?
    We have a test unit that we did and it worked very well but it is not Yet forsale. If you were told otherwise I am very sorry and I will speak to sales person in training about this.

    You may stop by to check them out though.
    Last edited by Andrew@activeautowerke; 12-07-2012 at 04:50 PM.

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