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  1. #101
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by rader1 Click here to enlarge
    Ahh, so it may be similar to what's going on with the guys at high altitudes when they are hitting boost/load targets and their timing goes wonky. Are you doing anything special in the 110 load column or is it just that you're keeping it under target?
    I had to change around all the various tables to accommodate a lower DME load target with respect to timing, afr, etc. When used with a JB4 ISO the DME basically is always right on target except during spool up so it's a fairly simple process. I have not been following flash only issues so can't comment on the elevation problems except to say this solution of the JB4 for boost control and back end flash for afr & timing targeting is quite robust. I would suggest it to anyone at this point.
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  2. #102
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    Ah, the curse of the unknown tables...sounds like its working well, good job!

  3. #103
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    I had to change around all the various tables to accommodate a lower DME load target with respect to timing, afr, etc. When used with a JB4 ISO the DME basically is always right on target except during spool up so it's a fairly simple process. I have not been following flash only issues so can't comment on the elevation problems except to say this solution of the JB4 for boost control and back end flash for afr & timing targeting is quite robust. I would suggest it to anyone at this point.
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  4. #104
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    The first is yesterdays log with e85/93 blend no meth on map 7

    second is 25% e85/93 blend 75% 105 and poor flowing meth, was leaking at the track and only getting a flow rate of 60ish out of 100 but it was 100 percent meth , believe it or not that run was an 11.9@117 lmao.... thats how most my logs looked despite the octane, akways terribe timing, and this posted below as the pre fix map from the track was actually one of the better looking logs ive produced before yesterday since it was race gas and meth... and it's still isnt nearly as nice as yesterdays e50 blend and no meth... i have e85 blend logs at home (at work now) that have negative timing almost throughout the entire 4th or 5th gear...

    and keep in mind this is three days old now... timing is a bit under target but A LOT better of a log than ive seen since i purchased this car..

    Also should be noted i may of been letting the car shift itself on the pre flatline fix log as apposed to using the paddles yesterday and for those with timing flatline issues know that thats a 100% flatline shifting in the 6000-65000 RPM window

    Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by ChuckD05; 12-12-2012 at 03:34 PM.
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  5. #105
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    Excuse my utter ignorance here, but isn't perceived DME load a combination of parameters that is coming from the engine? Since the JB4 alters these signals, wouldn't it be easier to adjust the propotion of the signals that the JB4 is feeding the DME, so the cobb can think its running a 130 load?

  6. #106
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Tzu Click here to enlarge
    Excuse my utter ignorance here, but isn't perceived DME load a combination of parameters that is coming from the engine? Since the JB4 alters these signals, wouldn't it be easier to adjust the propotion of the signals that the JB4 is feeding the DME, so the cobb can think its running a 130 load?
    The DME must be generally "on target" to operate fault free. So while we could adjust the perceived load (and do short term for boost over target, meth failure, etc) if that load does not quickly approach it's load target then it will throw various faults. So the only long term load adjustment method available is to alter it's load target internally. Fortunately it's easy to do.
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  7. #107
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    Sounds like its fixed but the timing still seems well below target no? Also, for the "fixed" datalog the boost control seems much better on that log without boost spikes post shift. I wonder if those boost spikes are introduced back if the overall system would behave the same still.

  8. #108
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    Glad you got it fixed Terry. what are you seeing as boost at load of 110 in the top end at maybe 60, 70deg... my guess around 6ish psi. I'm at 9ish psi (at 6300rpms) reported to the DME and never seen a flatline issue primarily using the v301 map0 base. But the issue is probably in the more recently BMW flashed DMEs... maybe Cobb flashes don't change rewrite all the code and use BMW as somewhat of a base.

    How often do you see randomish ign retard like my log posted on pg1? When stacked I very rarely see it, sometimes its there during a load transition... always at part throttle though, never WOT. With some of the Cobb mapping though, it can be quite annoying... I've ported all my maps over to v301 map0 base which is much better in my experience.

  9. #109
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    Dzen , The pre was before I changed the board to iso firmware. My car has never logged good so don't take my logs as the example of all. That def should be said. That's no MEth e85
    blend after a reset of ecu and adaptions ... I'd wait to see many more examples. But timing is a little under target but is raising the way it should finally

    hope terry isn't upset.
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  10. #110
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    Sounds like its fixed but the timing still seems well below target no? Also, for the "fixed" datalog the boost control seems much better on that log without boost spikes post shift. I wonder if those boost spikes are introduced back if the overall system would behave the same still.
    Post fix it always targets around 7 degrees post shift up to 12 degrees at redline. I'd prefer it to be 10 degrees post shift but so far this is as good as we've gotten it. Beats the -3 degrees we used to see before sometimes!
    Burger Motorsports
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    It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

  11. #111
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Post fix it always targets around 7 degrees post shift up to 12 degrees at redline. I'd prefer it to be 10 degrees post shift but so far this is as good as we've gotten it. Beats the -3 degrees we used to see before sometimes!
    So that is your targeted timing in the Cobb map and you're not targeting stock timing anymore? If that's the case I wonder if the issue went away just because of a more appropriate timing map for the given boost/octane? Whatever it may be it seems like its working well if its consistent and hopefully its not causing a significant drop in power on the single gear pulls due to lower overall targeted timing.

    FWIW 7-12deg timing is definitely well below MBT for an E85 blend and I'd deem this a workaround to get timing to recover not a solution. A solution would be to have the car run at MBT for a given octane and still recover full timing post shift

    How this will impact overall results at a track though will be interesting to see. On a dyno though I suspect lower power than what the car could do in a single gear pull with timing closer to MBT for this level of octane (i.e. higher than 7-12 shown above)
    Last edited by dzenno@PTF; 12-12-2012 at 06:42 PM.

  12. #112
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    The timing target should be 10 to 14 I'm going 7 to 12ish. I'm very sure its faster now and I trapped 119 the day the pre log was posted. It's noticable for me post shift of improved accel

    I will log more and this is still very new so I'm confident T will get it even better. Regardless its a big step in the right direction.

    like terry said I would go negative post shift almost always.

    Also my car would flatline in map 1 with e85 blend before on a paddle shift. I need to post logs letting it shift on its own too like my pre logs. That always helped a bit. These are all paddle shifts at. 62-64
    Last edited by ChuckD05; 12-12-2012 at 06:50 PM.
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  13. #113
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    Ya, going negative on the timing will definitely make your car slower as you cross multiple gears/shifts and that's why I say it'll be interesting to see how it compares to your previous runs which were also fairly good trap wise right? 119 as well? Given lower than MBT timing though your overall power numbers when measured on a dyno will be lower than what they could be and a single gear 3rd gear pull would most likely end up being slower. Hopefully you guys can work it out so that your timing is where it should be for that level of octane/boost without compromising newfound post-shift timing recovery. That would clearly give you full power (car running at MBT) as well as full power recovery post shift into higher gears. That'd be the ultimate.

  14. #114
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by dzenno@ProTUNING Freaks Click here to enlarge
    So that is your targeted timing in the Cobb map and you're not targeting stock timing anymore? If that's the case I wonder if the issue went away just because of a more appropriate timing map for the given boost/octane? Whatever it may be it seems like its working well if its consistent and hopefully its not causing a significant drop in power on the single gear pulls due to lower overall targeted timing.

    FWIW 7-12deg timing is definitely well below MBT for an E85 blend and I'd deem this a workaround to get timing to recover not a solution. A solution would be to have the car run at MBT for a given octane and still recover full timing post shift

    How this will impact overall results at a track though will be interesting to see. On a dyno though I suspect lower power than what the car could do in a single gear pull with timing closer to MBT for this level of octane (i.e. higher than 7-12 shown above)
    Since we released the BMS flash we've always run non-OEM curves on the flash maps. I dislike how much advance the stock curve runs down low, and I think it's got a degree or so too much up top, for large turbo use. So we have it mapped to say 10 degrees ramping up to 13.5 at redline. During single gear pulls that is what we get octane permitting. But post shift it always drops 3 degrees or so at the shift. Previously would drop 6-10 degrees. I would like it to drop 0-1 degrees. The real fix will be Cobb adding in more tables so we can more precisely tune advance during shifts. But for now I'm very happy with this work around.
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  15. #115
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    Agreed on all fronts
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  16. #116
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    Here is another E85 tester log. This one is getting the full 10 degrees post shift for some reason. Lucky guy! Click here to enlarge
    Attached Images Attached Images  
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  17. #117
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Here is another E85 tester log. This one is getting the full 10 degrees post shift for some reason. Lucky guy! Click here to enlarge
    Did this guy flatline badly before?

  18. #118
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by themyst Click here to enlarge
    Did this guy flatline badly before?
    Edit I should say yes as far as I know. He emailed asking for the fix. Click here to enlarge
    Last edited by Terry@BMS; 12-12-2012 at 10:51 PM.
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  19. #119
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Yes same as the rest of us.
    Ah interesting. Once my car's back up and running i'm looking forward to testing the fix!

  20. #120
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by Terry@BMS Click here to enlarge
    Edit I should say yes as far as I know. He emailed asking for the fix. Click here to enlarge
    I was too quick for u Click here to enlarge

  21. #121
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    nice!! seems like he is redlining the gear and possibly letting the car shift..

    I will take some logs with the car letting it self shift and meth working... I may have other things going on with my car affecting my logs , but that log is beautiful that terry posted! I should really post some of my not so pretty logs because I am willing to bet my car is up there with the worse of the flatliners, lol... i have some atrocious looking post shift timing logs on hand.

    no meth right terry? his boost also seems lower, what map was he using there?

    Also, how much power could really be on the table from the 7-11 tq curve compared to the full 10- whatever.... ?
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  22. #122
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    Ben just try it , I would like to see what it does for your car... I want to see some of your flat line logs before your RB's if you dont mind emailing some over that would be great
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  23. #123
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    Click here to enlarge Originally Posted by ChuckD05 Click here to enlarge
    Ben just try it , I would like to see what it does for your car... I want to see some of your flat line logs before your RB's if you dont mind emailing some over that would be great
    Chuck - I ordered the JB4 G5 ISO and should be here on Saturday.. I installed the Walbro 400 last night to test some higher E85 percentages. With the Cobb I have some nasty timing dropouts/flatlines.. I will post up a review with datalogs of before and after the G5 ISO with BMS flash.. Stay Tuned.. I sure hope for the best!!
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    I think its safe to assume you're timing will be much improved... its only a matter of time before cobb will implement these changes terry made as well im sure... hopefully within a few months the timing flatline annoyance is a thing of the past...

    Now T find out how to make mine recover to 10!!!! thanks! lol

    (also, do you know what mix the log you posted was running? @Terry@BMS
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    1 out of 1 members liked this post. Reputation: Yes | No
    JB4 G5 with BMS cobb flash solved my flatline issues!!!
    Say goodbye to -3 deg of timing post shift and on the slightest overboost!1
    Plus the boost control is stupid simple.. Best $500 I spent to far!!

    Big Thanks to Terry on his product and EXCELLENT CUSTOMER SERIVICE!!!

    A few datalogs attached in the .zip folder

    3rd - 6th gear pull was done with E60 (no meth)
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    Last edited by boosted-M; 12-26-2012 at 04:05 PM.
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